[Liney]

I've been posting a few images on the forum and getting some good feedback on post-processing (thanks to those who have provided the feedback, I appreciate it), and on a couple of occassions it has been suggested that I use layers to touch up one part or another.

Now I admit I've never considered the use of layers before, up till now I've processed the image as a single entity rather than selecting parts for specific treatment. There are lots of tutorials and web pages telling you how to use layers and each one always has an example image to show how the end result comes out, but these are very specific examples probably selected to prove a point and which buttons to click to do it. If I wanted to take the same picture every time and process it the same way then I'm sorted!

To draw an analogy, layers would appear to be a tool like a spanner or a drill. I can be taught to use a spanner, but experience will tell me when to use a spanner and when a pair of pliers will be better! I'm afraid that the majority of the information you get off the net is of the "how to" rather than 'when to", unless I have yet to find the right webpage?

So as the thread title says, when would I use layers? I know it's a bit of a generic question with no simple answer (each image would be different) but the way I learn new topics is to initially set a few general guidelines and then refine them as i go along.

So for example, I have a landscape shot with the sky and the land. I could process the image as a single shot, or I could create a seperate layer which masks the sky out and perhaps change the saturation of the colours on the land side to enhance perhaps the green of the trees. Is this an effective use of layers?

On the technical side, do layers automatically require the use of masks to seperate out sections for processing? I assume it would be the most effective way of preventing the proccessing being applied to a distinct section of the image flowing across other sections (I also assume that this means being very precise in the definition of the mask parameters, but that means a steady hand more than anything else!).

Looking forward to your comments.

[Tas]

I can't say I'm an expert on photography or post processing, but for me the image is a moment captured and the post processing is the finishing touch when/if it's needed. Not all images need much or indeed any post processing. So for me the use of layers is when it's warranted to tell the story.

Having said that I shoot in RAW DNG and find most of my images will warrant some sharpening. Though I might go the other way and add grain to create a grungier image if it suits. The colours might also need a bit of vibrance added so the natural look returns after capturing the scene in RAW.

Using layers and masks provides more control. You mentioned adding saturation to the land but not the sky. And in a similar vain you don't need to sharpen the sky and layer masks provide the opprtunity to mask out 'global' sharpening so sharpening of the sky is controlled to allow detail and body to clouds without adding lots of noise to the blue blank sky. I do this in Photoshop and for images like the one below. I sharpen on the parts that tell the story, including the cloud edges, but not the background sky:



[/IMG]

I might also open two images (from Lightroom) in Photoshop and mask out an overblown sky so I get the foreground detail and the correctly exposed sky. This is a good alternative to HDR.

I use layers in onOne software's Perfect Photo Suite too. Most of my work in there though is in Perfect B&W and Perfect Effects. The layers in this program can be combined to create a look that is unique and I can then save that and use it again. Most software have similar set ups to enable you to recreate a look when it suits. This is a great way for exploring as you develop your style.

So I'd say give it a go and experiment. You might like simple or even develop a look that becomes your signature style, or even decide it's not for you.

[Liney]

Tas

Thanks for the input. I can see why you feel the need to use layers and masks in the circumstances you describe, and appreciate your point about creating a signature style. Perhaps a thte moment that style of mine has still to be developed.

I'll certainly give it some trial shots using images from my library and see if I can pick out the improvements, Thanks again for your input

[fgaudet]

Layers allow you to make modifications without the loss of the original image (non destructive). And as you said, they allow you to use masks. Another advantage of layering is if you let's say adjust contrast on your picture and then later adjust your exposure. And then you notice your contrast is off a bit... If you don't use layers, well you're screwed, if you use layers, you simply select your contrast layer and re-adjust it.

The whole layer/mask thing is very very useful, it takes a while to get use to working this way when you're coming from editing directly on your image but once accustomed to it, you're gonna use them all the time.

If you're looking for great tutorial online you should look at Free Photoshop Tutorials (or phlearn on youtube) they have all sorts of photoshop tutorials (free and paid) and they intensively use layers and masks. That should give you a good idea of why and when to use them.

[Liney]

fgaudet, thanks for the input. I'll have a look at your link and see what I can pick up.

[mikeSF]

yes, several ways to use layers, either with masking or without.
I typically layer two exposures together by pasting one on top of the other, then paint a mask to reveal the layer underneath.

Another way i use layers is for selective sharpening. I create a layer with sharpening and then paint in only the areas i want sharpened (or erase the areas i dont want sharpened). Again using a mask.

Take it slow and it will become second nature.
Now, I use layers and masks for manual focus stacking and selective exposure stacking, specific levels adjustments, adding a transparent watermark to images, de-noising, blending HDR with non-HDR layers, etc, etc

[magkelly]

When you want to combine more than one copy of an image to create some kind of depth effect, move part of one image into another, paint on an image, or recolor one as if you were using a resin filter perhaps. Using a transparent layer or a second copy of your photo as a layer allows you to add or combine things as you wish without wrecking the original. You can also use one to correct some things like a color cast. Honestly I don't use them as much as I did once. Using a layer is the longer way to do some things now. I have plugins that just do it for me. But for combining images, painting and that it's still the way to go.

[normhead]

I usually only use layers for text, or HDR combined images, but then I'm a slacker.

[Oldbayrunner]

One other thing to mention, one of the reasons to use layers or smart objects is if your save your file without the layers being merged in a re-editable file format then it gives you the ability to go back and make any further adjustments to any of the layers, add or delete adjustment layers, masks etc. thereby tweaking the final output without having to start over from the original or saved copy.

[Venturi]

IMO - the very first thing you should do with any photo you load up into Photoshop is press CTRL-J. That way you always retain the original as a reference for your working copy.

[Kerrowdown]

When would you use layers?

Every time I open PS, as this is the one main areas that LR (which I now use for 90% of my quick PP) just can't do.

[reeftool]

Layers allow you to make modifications without the loss of the original image (non destructive). And as you said, they allow you to use masks. Another advantage of layering is if you let's say adjust contrast on your picture and then later adjust your exposure. And then you notice your contrast is off a bit... If you don't use layers, well you're screwed, if you use layers, you simply select your contrast layer and re-adjust it.

The whole layer/mask thing is very very useful, it takes a while to get use to working this way when you're coming from editing directly on your image but once accustomed to it, you're gonna use them all the time.

If you're looking for great tutorial online you should look at Free Photoshop Tutorials (or phlearn on youtube) they have all sorts of photoshop tutorials (free and paid) and they intensively use layers and masks. That should give you a good idea of why and when to use them.

Yes, that's why most Photoshop tutorials start right in with "Layers". It keeps your original photo intact. You work on a layer which is essentially a copy of your original. Lightroom is non destructive. It adds data to your original shot to make adjustments which is why it becomes such a resource hog. Lightroom doesn't have a "layers" function although you can get it in a plug in. Any editing program that alters your photo, you should work on a layer or on a copy. Actually, you should make a backup copy on another hard drive or DVD regardless to protect yourself against a hard drive crash.

[johnyates]

When would you use layers?

When you want to do something like this.

[clicksworth]

Working through some examples is the best way to become familiar with layers, but many of the tutorials out there are quite complicated.


Maybe try this quick and easy one to produce a "bleach bypass" effect. It doesn't require masks or other complicated techniques.
Beach bypass, as user asp1880 described it earlier, is good for enhancing a feeling of despair, hopelessness, urban decay, or ominous weather. It is a term left over from film days for processing that left a black and while image in a colour photo.


Load an image.
Make a duplicate layer.
Desaturate that layer to black and while.
Change the blending mode of the top layer to "overlay".


That's it. The image will now look more bleak and depressing. You can then reduce saturation in the bottom layer, and increase contrast in the top one to customize the bleakness to desired level.

[atupdate]

Here is a link to part 1 of Ron Bigelow's tutorial on Layers. His Part 1 introduction says it all. He has written a 3 part tutorial on layers and many, many, many other Photoshop techniques (Click on Articles at the top of the page). These tutorials also apply to other software beside Photoshop - I use Paint Shop Pro.

Using Layers in Photoshop -- Part I

Since every picture is different, you will seldom have a set-in-concrete workflow. Each image will need just a little different tweak. Once you have used adjustment layers, masking layers, and the other advanced tools, you will have a good idea which tools to use.

Tim