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09-19-2014, 04:37 AM   #1
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Pentax Raw options

Have you found any advantage to DNG over Pentax Raw options?

09-19-2014, 05:52 AM - 1 Like   #2
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DNG will work better if you have the newest Pentax camera but still has older software.
Or if you need to ship raw files to someone with old software or to someone who is unfamiliar with PEF.
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--Anders.
09-19-2014, 05:52 AM - 1 Like   #3
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There's advantages and disadvantages to both, so it really boils down to preference. Why I converted to using DNG in camera was; dng is more readily recognized by most software I use, there isn't the usual lag time waiting for software to catch up with new camera models raw information by using dng, since dng doesn't store the cameras jpeg file information within the raw file and some un-essential meta data it's usually about 15% smaller than camera raw files and if using Adobe products such as Lightroom or Photoshop I don't have to deal with the extra sidecar .xmp files that contain the editing data changes to camera raw files to name a few.
09-19-2014, 05:54 AM   #4
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I was just wondering if one file produced better photos than the other.

09-19-2014, 06:41 AM   #5
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In my opinion no not really, it is the software you use to process them with that can make the difference.
09-19-2014, 06:41 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ilovemypentax Quote
I was just wondering if one file produced better photos than the other.
No the image data is the same.
The rationale as outlined by Oldbayrunner is very coherent and probably a more sustainable approach for the long term.

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09-19-2014, 07:34 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ilovemypentax Quote
I was just wondering if one file produced better photos than the other.
DNG and PEF are supposed to contain the same image data. Some software might have bugs using one or the other, though. For example, when I last tested Google Picasa around 5 years ago, DNG had a thin black bar at one edge of the frame while PEF didn't have that bar but colors were too pink.

I use DNG because it's closer to being a standard than PEF is. It's disappointing that the camera industry hasn't settled on a truly standard format that works in all cameras, and doesn't require software upgrades to read raw files from a new camera. We can't rely on Adobe to create that format because it's in their interest to force version upgrades on everyone.

09-20-2014, 01:20 AM   #8
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Go with DNG

QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
dng doesn't store the cameras jpeg file information within the raw file and some un-essential meta data it's usually about 15% smaller than camera raw files and if using Adobe products such as Lightroom or Photoshop I don't have to deal with the extra sidecar .xmp files that contain the editing data changes to camera raw files to name a few.
Well, actually DNG does include a full-size jpeg preview made with the settings you specify for jpeg on the camera. Probably your software just hasn't been set to use it.

Secondly, storing the editing information in sidecar files or in a unified database is an option in Adobe Camera Raw (ACR), not a feature of the raw files.

DNG is, because of it's universal compatibility, the only thing that keeps me still hanging on to Pentax.
09-20-2014, 05:00 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
Well, actually DNG does include a full-size jpeg preview made with the settings you specify for jpeg on the camera. Probably your software just hasn't been set to use it.

Secondly, storing the editing information in sidecar files or in a unified database is an option in Adobe Camera Raw (ACR), not a feature of the raw files.

DNG is, because of it's universal compatibility, the only thing that keeps me still hanging on to Pentax.
I use Adobe Photoshop CC 2014 & Lightroom 5.6 and have used Photoshop for a very long time
FYI;
1.1) Advantages of RAW format
RAW files contain full JPEG Previews that were processed by the camera, using the camera settings you chose when you shot the image.

2.1) What are the advantages of DNG format?
DNG files are generally smaller than RAW files and can be made even smaller if minimal or no JPEG Preview is stored within the file.

Mine store no jpeg preview info. Now I will admit if you have saved your files in Pef or any camera raw format and are using Lightroom to convert them, in your preferences you can specify the size of jpeg preview to save or not to save at all in your dng conversion. Read convert photos .Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4 * Manage photos.. Here again afaik in camera dng doesn't save a preview or saves very minimal jpeg preview information, at least that is what I have ascertained from my files. My original posting could have been worded slightly better to indicate some minimal to no jpeg preview, even still it does attribute to a reduction in file size.

"Secondly, storing the editing information in sidecar files or in a unified database is an option in Adobe Camera Raw (ACR), not a feature of the raw files."

Not true afaik, show us where that option is in ACR is I'd really like to know how you are doing that with a camera raw file.. From what I know of my several years of using Photoshop a camera raw file either has to be converted to dng with Adobe dng converter prior to editing in camera raw or if not Photoshop will automatically create a sidecar .xmp file when editing a camera raw format.
FYI
1.2) Disadvantages of RAW format
Because RAW files cannot be modified by third party software, your settings will have to be stored in a separate sidecar (XMP) file, which means more storage and tougher file management.

2.1) What are the advantages of DNG format?
Changes to images can be written directly into DNG files without having to create separate sidecar XMP files to store this data. This simplifies file management.

I agree I do like the dng universal compatabilty and the fact now my Pentax camera, unlike my previous system, has the ability to utilize dng in camera. It saves me a lot by not having to convert my files but it sure isn't what keeps me hanging on to my Pentax. I am not fan loyal by any means and if Pentax didn't suit my current wants and needs I would be using something else that did. Especially since afaik most camera raw files can be converted to dng so I wouldn't be forced to change my software choices one iota by changing systems.

If anyone care to read the article I used for example information it can be found here..... DNG vs RAW

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 09-20-2014 at 05:46 AM.
09-20-2014, 07:33 AM   #10
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The DNG files do contain a jpeg preview right out of the (Pentax) camera. I use that feature every day in Expression Media:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/32-digital-processing-software-printing/237837d1411223356-pentax-raw-options-rendering.jpg

And this is where you choose how to save editing settings:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/32-digital-processing-software-printing/237838d1411223356-pentax-raw-options-sidecar_vs_db.jpg
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09-20-2014, 02:06 PM   #11
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Ah .. I see I do remember this now, I was going with your statement of a setting in ACR not Bridge or Photoshop, so I stand slightly corrected. By making the selection to not use an . xmp file it still saves the editing information in a separate camera raw data base, for which you do not have to deal with by using dng as it does not require any separate method of saving edited information..

As far as your Rendering example if you read it correctly it pertains to Digital camera raw images Not Dng image files for which I have been correctly stating in regards to embedded previews.
09-20-2014, 11:18 PM   #12
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I believe I'm correct in reading the OP:s question as concering the choice between PEF and DNG on camera. Likewise that DNG files from Pentax do contain a JPEG preview.
We agree in preferring DNG as output over PEF.
I still have not found any advantage to using PEF or all the other proprietary RAW formats out there. The life of users would be much easier if more manufacturers supported DNG.
09-21-2014, 03:51 AM   #13
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I switched to DNG a good while back as it's recognised more readily by industry standard software.

When the manufacturer doesn't support PEF file format on some of it's own products (K-50, K-500, K-30, K-01) it may be time to consider a change.
09-24-2014, 01:04 PM   #14
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DNG files do have embedded JPG images in them. I only have a K5, so I don't recall if it's a full sized image, but I do let LR/ACR embed a full resolution JPG after I've processed the files.

DNG files do have XMP embedded in them. PEF files will set the XMP files separately. Some people actually like that because if you work in a RAW based workflow, all the changes in your DAM or in ACR/LR would be saved to external XMP files. Why is that a benefit? Because you would only have to backup the PEF files once. Further backups would only have to be with the XMP files, which are much smaller and quicker to access/backup.

That being said, I actually use DNG files as support is marginally better than PEF files. I say marginally because some programs don't support DNG files. It ultimately ends up being a preference.

An underlying issue is DAM for your files, so you don't have to worry too much about what format you are using and that moving your files around and dealing with XMP data doesn't require that much concentration on what file type your images are in. Software like Lightroom and IMatch can help you manage your files and metadata keeping your XMP data in place.
09-24-2014, 03:26 PM   #15
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I prefer to keep my RAW files virgin and pure. So I use .PEF. Since I post-process in Silkypix Studio Pro 6 set up to write the processing settings into a separate file it does not make any difference.
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