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05-08-2015, 01:08 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattb123 Quote
the performance and display issues I had with the integrated video of my i5
It's been a while, but I think I remember a discussion on a programming board about Intel's embedded graphics not playing properly with OpenGL extensions for GPU programming. It's not my area of expertise, but if LR 5 didn't use the GPU for image processing, shouldn't version 6 be dramatically better performing because it does use the GPU?

Unless I run into a situation where LR 5.7 doesn't have a profile for a new camera or lenses that I acquire, it doesn't sound like there are any compelling reasons to upgrade.

05-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Unless I run into a situation where LR 5.7 doesn't have a profile for a new camera or lenses that I acquire, it doesn't sound like there are any compelling reasons to upgrade.
The LR board over at Adobe is lit up with LR6 complaints. Mostly involved with how slow it is. Consensus there seems to be to turn off the GPU setting but many complaints that even then it is noticeably slower than 5.7.

Some report it works fine though, so there has to be some hardware issue involved as well.
05-08-2015, 01:35 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
It's been a while, but I think I remember a discussion on a programming board about Intel's embedded graphics not playing properly with OpenGL extensions for GPU programming. It's not my area of expertise, but if LR 5 didn't use the GPU for image processing, shouldn't version 6 be dramatically better performing because it does use the GPU?
Seems like that might be the case. I work in software but not so close to the hardware layer so I don't really know either.
I think it should unless you have a reasonably high performing system except for the GPU which was my case when I upgraded. I skimped on the GPU because when I built the machine it didn't matter for Lightroom or Photoshop anyway. But now it does so I bit the bullet and got one.
05-08-2015, 03:37 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how to explain this behavior?
No....

But, when you have GPU on, LR might be trying to some things on the GPU and because that isn't performing well, it could be bottlenecking the CPU tasks as well. Just a guess.

05-08-2015, 05:10 PM - 1 Like   #110
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All other things aside, it amazes me that a big company like Adobe couldn't test for these problems before they went live with v6.

Even if they beta tested in-house with just 100 Adobe employees using LR 6 on their home PC's, it seems likely that they would have picked up reports of performance problems in some user hardware configurations related to GPU use, and had the opportunity to stomp this bug before release.

Not very impressive work by Adobe.
05-08-2015, 05:17 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
All other things aside, it amazes me that a big company like Adobe couldn't test for these problems before they went live with v6.

Even if they beta tested in-house with just 100 Adobe employees using LR 6 on their home PC's, it seems likely that they would have picked up reports of performance problems in some user hardware configurations related to GPU use, and had the opportunity to stomp this bug before release.

Not very impressive work by Adobe.
I know it seems amazing, but I work for a very large software company and this kind of stuff just happens. Keep in mind, for the most part you're only hearing from people having problems. Most people having no issues are happily chugging along, blissfully oblivious to the problems others are experiencing.
05-08-2015, 06:16 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bluescale Quote
this kind of stuff just happens
That's a software mindset that just became popular in the last half a decade or so.

05-08-2015, 06:34 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by lightbox Quote
That's a software mindset that just became popular in the last half a decade or so.
It's really the last 20 years, not last half decade. And it makes sense when you consider how much more complicated your software is today than it was in 1997 or 1987. The variety of systems today are much greater, and the complexity is much higher.

I'm not interested in defending Adobe. I'm sure they have room to improve their QA process. But the thought that having 100 employees try it out at home would have found the issues is probably far off the mark. If Adobe does things like we do at my company, in addition to QA, I'm sure hundreds of employees were banging away at it in the way a typical user works.
05-09-2015, 04:18 AM - 1 Like   #114
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I'd argue that while software has become more complex, it also has become simpler when it comes to interaction with the hardware and other software. The OS do great jobs abstracting away all the nasty details. In dos/macos8&9 or windows 9x times, you really had to write for the hardware (and in macos case also had to keep in mind that broken scheduling system). But today? Nice clean apis&abis everywhere.

Really, adobe has no excuse for this. They knew before hand that L6 is a lame duck. That is why they used that strange collection of systems like a surface or an old macbook as examples when they talked about performance.
05-09-2015, 06:57 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bluescale Quote
It's really the last 20 years, not last half decade. And it makes sense when you consider how much more complicated your software is today than it was in 1997 or 1987.
The "software crisis" officially started in 1967.

Adobe has no excuse, w.r.t. LR, though. While it is difficult to get predictable performance with such a variety of hardware and software variations in the PC world, they introduced their major performance issues with LR 3 (the version that was meant to mainly address, wait for it, "performance"). And they still haven't been able to get rid of this major issue. Anyone knowing about a bit about software development listening to Adobe podcasts or reading about some of their issues in the forums, knows that many, many things are not at all the way they are supposed to be. I'm rather unhappy with the attitude that such shoddy quality is considered "normal" nowadays.
05-09-2015, 07:54 AM   #116
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Re going back, I used Lr 5 and Lr CC simultaneously on the same photos but not the same catalog. It might be that if you hadn't made bazillions of adjustments that you could essentially use DNG as a way to get around some of the backward compatibility issues. As a rule I tend to avoid getting trapped by having lots of adjustments stored in Lr, so I haven't done this much other than passing files back and forth with other people.
05-09-2015, 08:11 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
Re going back, I used Lr 5 and Lr CC simultaneously on the same photos but not the same catalog. It might be that if you hadn't made bazillions of adjustments that you could essentially use DNG as a way to get around some of the backward compatibility issues. As a rule I tend to avoid getting trapped by having lots of adjustments stored in Lr, so I haven't done this much other than passing files back and forth with other people.
Thanks for the tip but I have a week's work in LR6 with two different shoots already done. Probably 200 images for two different clients, that I am not going to have the time to re-do. So I'm stuck. LR6 is working OK for me now with the GPU turned off. So I'm staying with that for now.

I considered upgrading to a new graphics card but upon review I find mine is not that old and still is recommended. There are newer cards but anything significantly better than what I have looks to be in the $300-400 range. I think I'll wait to see how this settles out before I drop big money on something I might not need.
05-09-2015, 10:59 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by EarlVonTapia Quote
Yea I was curious about the HDR in LR6 specifically because I read another review on it from a well known photographer (I can't find it now, but I read it a few days ago) and he panned it, basically described what you just said.

Sigh, I guess one can dream. Hopefully since it's all just software anyways, they can tweak and enhance the HDR function. It would be nice to consolidate as many functions into LR as possible to streamline workflows.
I think the HDR feature of Lightroom is meant for realistic looking photos. I just gave it a quick try, and it seems fine. But my process so far was to merge the photos to a 32 bit TIFF file that I would then edit in LR. So for me it takes away the step of perfectly matching photos (WB etc.), exporting them to TIFF, merging them, saving as TIFF, importing to LR, and then editing. Instead I can just merge them in LR. Huge time saver.

All I need is a DNG file with a much larger dynamic range than my camera can deliver, so I can get manipulate the photo.

Are you sure you need high performance cards for LR? From what I understand it only does some rather basic OpenGL processing... which is quite disappointing.

Btw., I think one of the major things slowing down LR is hard drive access speeds. Defragment frequently or better yet invest in SSDs.

Last edited by kadajawi; 05-09-2015 at 11:15 AM.
05-09-2015, 12:07 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Are you sure you need high performance cards for LR? From what I understand it only does some rather basic OpenGL processing... which is quite disappointing.
No, "high performance" is not needed but in the graphic card world "high performance" is generally measured by gaming performance not graphics editing so it is hard to tell which non-high performance card will work best. According to the Adobe website they are looking for 1 or 2gb of memory and they list a number of cards that work. Another source recommends at least 256bit memory bus width. And their recommended list starts with GTX 760 ($250 - $400) and the GTX 900 series ($400 - $800) https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-gpu-faq.html

I don't mind buying a new card, even an expensive one if it will improve my workflow. But there is no way to tell. And any of these 'recommended' cards seem to be high end with multiple big fans. I like my workspace nice and quiet, one of the reasons I went with an SSD is to remove the HDD noise. Not sure I want a jet engine running in my computer.

Complaints on the Adobe site are numerous enough that Adobe actually posted some notes to calm things down. https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1828580

And PetaPixel posted this yesterday: Why Your Lightroom CC May Actually Be Slower with the New GPU Acceleration

And yet Nvidia claims Lightroom develop module will be up to 30x faster using their cards: Adobe Lightroom CC - GPU Accelerated Tools | NVIDIA

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Btw., I think one of the major things slowing down LR is hard drive access speeds. Defragment frequently or better yet invest in SSDs.
No idea about that. Certainly not the case for me, I'm using a 512gb SSD.
05-12-2015, 02:01 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
All other things aside, it amazes me that a big company like Adobe couldn't test for these problems before they went live with v6.

Even if they beta tested in-house with just 100 Adobe employees using LR 6 on their home PC's, it seems likely that they would have picked up reports of performance problems in some user hardware configurations related to GPU use, and had the opportunity to stomp this bug before release.

Not very impressive work by Adobe.
You would think, but the employees probably all have the same type of computer and card.

It is annoying. I have a decent graphic card but it doesn't seem to matter.
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