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**BigMackCam** · 08-11-2015, 01:14 PM

So... as very much an amateur photographer (big emphasis on "amateur"), I've been editing my photos for years on the default screen of whatever PC I've owned at the time, with the colour / brightness / contrast / gamma settings as neutral as I could get them. My current PC is a high spec 17" HP Envy, and I always felt the default screen settings were a little bright and more than a little cool - although great for general use (non-photo-editing). Recently, I added an HP Pavilion 23xi as a second screen which, after some time using it, I felt had an unnaturally warm cast and lacklustre brightness compared to the Envy's built in screen.

A few days ago I ordered a ColorMunki Display calibration tool and today, for the first time, I calibrated both monitors...

Several big surprises came from this exercise:

1) Despite my doubts, the output from both screens now looks (to my eyes) identical - I am amazed at the consistency in colour, contrast and luminescence...
2) The Envy's built-in screen was, it transpires, so bright prior to calibration that, without realising it, I have been underexposing all of the photos I've edited (and posted here in the forum)

3) The Envy's built-in screen colour calibration was so cool that I've been over-compensating for this in my colour adjustments by a *huge* margin
4) The HP 23xi was actually closer than the Envy's built in screen in terms of correct colour reproduction in "Standard" setting (not the other way around, as I had assumed)
5) For the past year or so that I've owned the Envy, I've been viewing other people's photos with an unnaturally blue cast and way too much luminescence
6) Contrary to one or two reviews, the ColourMunki Display took just a few minutes to set up and has performed flawlessly through numerous calibration cycles (I'm running Windows 10, so YMMV)

I'm sure this is obvious stuff to many of you, but I am both gob-smacked and impressed with the difference the ColorMunki Display has made to both of my screens. Plus, I have it recalibrating based on ambient light measurements every 5 minutes, so as the daylight changes and I switch on the lights at night, I have (better) consistency in what I view on screen.

Despite the fact that I now have a mammoth task of reviewing and tweaking all of my edited photos, I am delighted that I can depend on both of my monitors to provide a more realistic rendition of my photos. Those of you not currently using a monitor calibration tool (whether ColorMunki or one of the other equivalent brands) might consider doing so - I am stunned at how inaccurate my monitors were before calibration...

Hope this is of some use to others...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-11-2015 at 01:32 PM.

**TER-OR** · 08-11-2015, 01:53 PM

I bought a Samsung LED-backlit monitor last year and it was so bright it hurt. Honestly, it could have been used outdoors. Colors seem good but I still tend to underexpose images a bit. I think it's down to like 23% brightness output.

I'll have to check out the Colormunki

LensBeginner · 08-11-2015, 02:10 PM

Bright and waaaay cool are all the rage now... hate that.
When Win loads the profile for the Samsung TV I use as a monitor, there's a brief moment in which my eyes see all yellow, such is the difference...

**BigMackCam** · 08-11-2015, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by TER-OR

I bought a Samsung LED-backlit monitor last year and it was so bright it hurt. Honestly, it could have been used outdoors. Colors seem good but I still tend to underexpose images a bit. I think it's down to like 23% brightness output.

I'll have to check out the Colormunki

Ha! Yeah, I think I got a mild tan from my laptop screen due to the previous brightness

I will say that it takes a little adapting to the re-calibrated settings as my screens are dimmer than before - not badly so, but it's obvious. However, I'm finding it much easier on my eyes.

I'm not endorsing X-Rite's ColorMunki products - I imagine all equivalent devices will do much the same; but my own experience has been an epiphany. There's a more basic version called the ColorMunki Smile, and I can't vouch for that, but the ColorMunki Display that I have seems very good...

stevebrot · 08-11-2015, 02:34 PM

It would be good to note that while most monitors will benefit from calibration, not all monitors benefit alike. Few consumer-grade displays support adequate gamut or contrast tunability to fully justify purchase of a calibration device. A check might be to simply run the monitor profiling tool built into the Windows Color Management panel. If you are able to use that tool to generate a workable ICC profile, purchase of a calibration device might very well pay off.*

Steve

* My Lenovo laptop's display is basically non-tunable...

**BigMackCam** · 08-11-2015, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

... Few consumer-grade displays support adequate gamut or contrast tunability to fully justify purchase of a calibration device. A check might be to simply run the monitor profiling tool built into the Windows Color Management panel. If you are able to use that tool to generate a workable ICC profile, purchase of a calibration device might very well pay off.*

Good point - thanks, Steve.

FWIW, I had been wrestling with profiling in Windows for months, but always ended up - at the very least - with my two monitors rendering with noticeably different colours and brightness / contrast. However, I could get each one individually looking "OK" to my naked eye (though as my exercise proved, my naked eye ain't worth squat!).

I guess I should have mentioned that both my laptop and additional monitor are fairly recent models, both LED (I'm sure it helps that they're both the same basic type) and both ADC (Automatic Display Control) enabled...

kh1234567890 · 08-12-2015, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

and both ADC (Automatic Display Control) enabled...

Doesn't turning that on sort of defeat the point of any calibration ?

**BigMackCam** · 08-12-2015, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

Doesn't turning that on sort of defeat the point of any calibration ?

No, it's slightly confusing

ADC isn't an automatic function, rather it's a facility that allows the screen to be controlled by software, rather than requiring a user to manually make adjustments. X-Rite's ColorMunki uses ADC to send adjustments to the screen (if the screen is ADC compatible). See this link for a better explanation.

kh1234567890 · 08-12-2015, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

No, it's slightly confusing

ADC isn't an automatic function, rather it's a facility that allows the screen to be controlled by software, rather than requiring a user to manually make adjustments. X-Rite's ColorMunki uses ADC to send adjustments to the screen (if the screen is ADC compatible). See this link for a better explanation.

Isn't that normally done by the display card driver / operating system / monitor profile ?

**Kerrowdown** · 08-12-2015, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

The importance of monitor calibration

Welcome to the world of viewing correct colour images, now get yourself a Colour Checker Passport and that's you sorted.

**BigMackCam** · 08-12-2015, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

Isn't that normally done by the display card driver / operating system / monitor profile ?

The driver / operating system / monitor profiler use the ADC protocol (or equivalent) to communicate with the screen (assuming the screen supports ADC - most current integrated and external screens do but many older ones don't). But, they have no idea what "correct" looks like. Display calibration tools like my ColorMunki DO. So they measure the output from the screen and then adjust it using the ADC protocol until it looks correct...

---------- Post added 08-13-2015 at 12:24 AM ----------

Originally posted by Kerrowdown

Welcome to the world of viewing correct colour images, now get yourself a Colour Checker Passport and that's you sorted.

Ha ha!

I don't yet self-print... I will some day, though, and of course you're right - I'll have similar challenges there too. For sure, when I start self-printing, I'll need the Color checked Passport... plus some tranquillisers and a therapist

6BQ5 · 08-13-2015, 01:23 PM

Calibrated monitors/displays are a must if you are making prints or getting prints made. The color in the prints could look real wonky if you don't calibrate your display. I'm sure most of us calibrate against a standard programmed in the calibration tool. Ideally, you should calibrate your monitor to your photo lab's printing process.

I use a Spyder Express.

**BigMackCam** · 08-14-2015, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

Calibrated monitors/displays are a must if you are making prints or getting prints made. The color in the prints could look real wonky if you don't calibrate your display. I'm sure most of us calibrate against a standard programmed in the calibration tool. Ideally, you should calibrate your monitor to your photo lab's printing process.

I use a Spyder Express.

This is where my understanding gets very flaky

I thought that in using my ColorMunki, I would be calibrating to a common industry standard - hence, if all commercial printers calibrate their printing equipment against the same common standard, the results from each printer should be largely the same. I didn't think I'd need to calibrate my monitor against an individual printer's standard... Have I misunderstood?

**clackers** · 08-14-2015, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I didn't think I'd need to calibrate my monitor against an individual printer's standard... Have I misunderstood?

They'll all offer sRGB.

They might do better with the Adobe colour space, but best to check with them before you do your post processing.

**BigMackCam** · 08-14-2015, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by clackers

They'll all offer sRGB.

They might do better with the Adobe colour space, but best to check with them before you do your post processing.

Thanks - that makes sense. So after calibrating my monitors, I process my images in LR6, export them using sRGB as the colour space, then when I send my images to a commercial printer, I inform them that the embedded colour space is sRGB. It's up to them to ensure their printing equipment is calibrated to sRGB - yes?

08-11-2015, 01:14 PM	#1
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702	The importance of monitor calibration So... as very much an amateur photographer (big emphasis on "amateur"), I've been editing my photos for years on the default screen of whatever PC I've owned at the time, with the colour / brightness / contrast / gamma settings as neutral as I could get them. My current PC is a high spec 17" HP Envy, and I always felt the default screen settings were a little bright and more than a little cool - although great for general use (non-photo-editing). Recently, I added an HP Pavilion 23xi as a second screen which, after some time using it, I felt had an unnaturally warm cast and lacklustre brightness compared to the Envy's built in screen. A few days ago I ordered a ColorMunki Display calibration tool and today, for the first time, I calibrated both monitors... Several big surprises came from this exercise: 1) Despite my doubts, the output from both screens now looks (to my eyes) identical - I am amazed at the consistency in colour, contrast and luminescence... 2) The Envy's built-in screen was, it transpires, so bright prior to calibration that, without realising it, I have been underexposing all of the photos I've edited (and posted here in the forum) 3) The Envy's built-in screen colour calibration was so cool that I've been over-compensating for this in my colour adjustments by a huge margin 4) The HP 23xi was actually closer than the Envy's built in screen in terms of correct colour reproduction in "Standard" setting (not the other way around, as I had assumed) 5) For the past year or so that I've owned the Envy, I've been viewing other people's photos with an unnaturally blue cast and way too much luminescence 6) Contrary to one or two reviews, the ColourMunki Display took just a few minutes to set up and has performed flawlessly through numerous calibration cycles (I'm running Windows 10, so YMMV) I'm sure this is obvious stuff to many of you, but I am both gob-smacked and impressed with the difference the ColorMunki Display has made to both of my screens. Plus, I have it recalibrating based on ambient light measurements every 5 minutes, so as the daylight changes and I switch on the lights at night, I have (better) consistency in what I view on screen. Despite the fact that I now have a mammoth task of reviewing and tweaking all of my edited photos, I am delighted that I can depend on both of my monitors to provide a more realistic rendition of my photos. Those of you not currently using a monitor calibration tool (whether ColorMunki or one of the other equivalent brands) might consider doing so - I am stunned at how inaccurate my monitors were before calibration... Hope this is of some use to others... Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-11-2015 at 01:32 PM.

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08-11-2015, 01:53 PM	#2
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	I bought a Samsung LED-backlit monitor last year and it was so bright it hurt. Honestly, it could have been used outdoors. Colors seem good but I still tend to underexpose images a bit. I think it's down to like 23% brightness output. I'll have to check out the Colormunki

08-11-2015, 02:10 PM	#3
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Bright and waaaay cool are all the rage now... hate that. When Win loads the profile for the Samsung TV I use as a monitor, there's a brief moment in which my eyes see all yellow, such is the difference...

08-11-2015, 02:12 PM	#4
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702 Original Poster	Originally posted by TER-OR I bought a Samsung LED-backlit monitor last year and it was so bright it hurt. Honestly, it could have been used outdoors. Colors seem good but I still tend to underexpose images a bit. I think it's down to like 23% brightness output. I'll have to check out the Colormunki Ha! Yeah, I think I got a mild tan from my laptop screen due to the previous brightness I will say that it takes a little adapting to the re-calibrated settings as my screens are dimmer than before - not badly so, but it's obvious. However, I'm finding it much easier on my eyes. I'm not endorsing X-Rite's ColorMunki products - I imagine all equivalent devices will do much the same; but my own experience has been an epiphany. There's a more basic version called the ColorMunki Smile, and I can't vouch for that, but the ColorMunki Display that I have seems very good...

08-11-2015, 02:34 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	It would be good to note that while most monitors will benefit from calibration, not all monitors benefit alike. Few consumer-grade displays support adequate gamut or contrast tunability to fully justify purchase of a calibration device. A check might be to simply run the monitor profiling tool built into the Windows Color Management panel. If you are able to use that tool to generate a workable ICC profile, purchase of a calibration device might very well pay off.* Steve * My Lenovo laptop's display is basically non-tunable...

08-11-2015, 02:40 PM	#6
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot ... Few consumer-grade displays support adequate gamut or contrast tunability to fully justify purchase of a calibration device. A check might be to simply run the monitor profiling tool built into the Windows Color Management panel. If you are able to use that tool to generate a workable ICC profile, purchase of a calibration device might very well pay off.* Good point - thanks, Steve. FWIW, I had been wrestling with profiling in Windows for months, but always ended up - at the very least - with my two monitors rendering with noticeably different colours and brightness / contrast. However, I could get each one individually looking "OK" to my naked eye (though as my exercise proved, my naked eye ain't worth squat!). I guess I should have mentioned that both my laptop and additional monitor are fairly recent models, both LED (I'm sure it helps that they're both the same basic type) and both ADC (Automatic Display Control) enabled...

08-12-2015, 01:24 AM	#7
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by BigMackCam and both ADC (Automatic Display Control) enabled... Doesn't turning that on sort of defeat the point of any calibration ?

08-12-2015, 01:03 PM	#8
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702 Original Poster	Originally posted by kh1234567890 Doesn't turning that on sort of defeat the point of any calibration ? No, it's slightly confusing ADC isn't an automatic function, rather it's a facility that allows the screen to be controlled by software, rather than requiring a user to manually make adjustments. X-Rite's ColorMunki uses ADC to send adjustments to the screen (if the screen is ADC compatible). See this link for a better explanation.

08-12-2015, 01:25 PM	#9
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by BigMackCam No, it's slightly confusing ADC isn't an automatic function, rather it's a facility that allows the screen to be controlled by software, rather than requiring a user to manually make adjustments. X-Rite's ColorMunki uses ADC to send adjustments to the screen (if the screen is ADC compatible). See this link for a better explanation. Isn't that normally done by the display card driver / operating system / monitor profile ?

08-12-2015, 02:33 PM	#10
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,864	Originally posted by BigMackCam The importance of monitor calibration Welcome to the world of viewing correct colour images, now get yourself a Colour Checker Passport and that's you sorted.

08-12-2015, 04:13 PM	#11
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702 Original Poster	Originally posted by kh1234567890 Isn't that normally done by the display card driver / operating system / monitor profile ? The driver / operating system / monitor profiler use the ADC protocol (or equivalent) to communicate with the screen (assuming the screen supports ADC - most current integrated and external screens do but many older ones don't). But, they have no idea what "correct" looks like. Display calibration tools like my ColorMunki DO. So they measure the output from the screen and then adjust it using the ADC protocol until it looks correct... ---------- Post added 08-13-2015 at 12:24 AM ---------- Originally posted by Kerrowdown Welcome to the world of viewing correct colour images, now get yourself a Colour Checker Passport and that's you sorted. Ha ha! I don't yet self-print... I will some day, though, and of course you're right - I'll have similar challenges there too. For sure, when I start self-printing, I'll need the Color checked Passport... plus some tranquillisers and a therapist

08-13-2015, 01:23 PM	#12
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Calibrated monitors/displays are a must if you are making prints or getting prints made. The color in the prints could look real wonky if you don't calibrate your display. I'm sure most of us calibrate against a standard programmed in the calibration tool. Ideally, you should calibrate your monitor to your photo lab's printing process. I use a Spyder Express.

08-14-2015, 02:12 AM	#13
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702 Original Poster	Originally posted by 6BQ5 Calibrated monitors/displays are a must if you are making prints or getting prints made. The color in the prints could look real wonky if you don't calibrate your display. I'm sure most of us calibrate against a standard programmed in the calibration tool. Ideally, you should calibrate your monitor to your photo lab's printing process. I use a Spyder Express. This is where my understanding gets very flaky I thought that in using my ColorMunki, I would be calibrating to a common industry standard - hence, if all commercial printers calibrate their printing equipment against the same common standard, the results from each printer should be largely the same. I didn't think I'd need to calibrate my monitor against an individual printer's standard... Have I misunderstood?

08-14-2015, 03:15 AM	#14
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by BigMackCam I didn't think I'd need to calibrate my monitor against an individual printer's standard... Have I misunderstood? They'll all offer sRGB. They might do better with the Adobe colour space, but best to check with them before you do your post processing.

08-14-2015, 04:43 AM	#15
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,702 Original Poster	Originally posted by clackers They'll all offer sRGB. They might do better with the Adobe colour space, but best to check with them before you do your post processing. Thanks - that makes sense. So after calibrating my monitors, I process my images in LR6, export them using sRGB as the colour space, then when I send my images to a commercial printer, I inform them that the embedded colour space is sRGB. It's up to them to ensure their printing equipment is calibrated to sRGB - yes?