Well, that's unfortunate.

VampyreGTX · 01-05-2016, 08:47 AM

I personally use the cloud and a server. The server is an homebuilt Lime Ware unRaid with 8TB so far (expandable to almost 100TB if I really wanted to). I upload my photos to SmugMug and then move them to the unRaid server so my photos are always in two places.

**baro-nite** · 01-05-2016, 11:44 AM

I've had enough hardware failures, either spontaneous or due to my own carelessness, to have become fairly serious about backups. A backup strategy needs to include not just the hardware and software components, but also the human component -- how much does the system depend on my own input and will I do it?

I'm in Mac OS, and for software I'm currently using a combination of Time Machine for hourly backups and ChronoSync for daily clones. For hardware I currently have 5 different external drives. This is because my media storage (photos, music, videos) is now too large for my laptop drive (an SSD). Drive #1 has two partitions, one for Time Machine and one to clone my laptop's SSD. Drive #2 is the same; I swap them daily. Drive #3 is for media files. Drives #4 and #5, older units, are to back up drive #3.

When I'm on the road, I usually carry drive #1 or #2.

The system depends on my keeping the appropriate drive(s) plugged in and powered up, and manually starting the daily clone, and the backups to #4 and #5 (which I only do as needed). I've gotten pretty good about making these things into habits.

I should test my backups more often.

Murfy · 01-05-2016, 12:17 PM

We have a synology cloud station and then also use time machine. We went on vacation this year and turned the computer off before we left and when we came back home, it wouldn't turn back on, we had a failed drive. Then had a video card failure that did something I don't know, caused the fan to go crazy and then messed up the drive, I can't remember. it was like 3 things, after installing every thing from scratch the first time, my husband started using time machine. We have had to use the time machine back up once since then and that made things much easier.

Clou · 01-05-2016, 12:22 PM

This is really unfortunate - no way to recover some of the data?

I had two HDD failures until now. Fortunately I mirror my data on different external and internal HDD drives, so there was no loss.

I like SSDs for OS, programs and caching files during processing, but for storage I prefer the old-fashioned spinning HDDs.
Companies offering data recovery tend to be better for the traditional HDDs, so if the need arises, currently the chances are better with the spinning HDDs (or spinning rust as theRegister calls these).
This may change in the future, obviously.

A good backup strategy is vital and if you earn your money with the pictures, an external storage (ideally in another town) is strongly recommended.

I have to work on my backup schedule and strategy...

normhead · 01-05-2016, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Kerrowdown

I use the built in iMac program Time Machine, it backs up hourly and alternately to two multi TB external drives hanging off the back, without any intervention from me.

I hasten to add... that all three, iMac and both external drives are running off the iBox UPS, just to cover me from spikes, surges and unexpected power outages.

I'm like him. Plus, I copy my whole aperture library to one of my backup drives, once a month, some day when I'm going to be out all day.

**jrpower10** · 01-05-2016, 12:45 PM

Cloud. Definitely. Protects you not only from hard drive failures, but theft, fire, user error, etc. The cost is so small there really isn't a lot of excuse not to. The least expensive options are slow to move back and forth, though, so working files need to stay local, either your hard drive or an external drive.

To put things into perspective, I had a portable drive fail while on a photo trip to Yellowstone/Grand Tetons. 3 days of photos were on the drive when it failed and I spent several hundred dollars to recover the data (luckily almost everything was recoverable). For what I spent recovering that drive I could've paid for cloud storage for 10-15 years.

Parallax · 01-05-2016, 12:49 PM

It may be a bit overkill, but every file I have exists on at least 3 physical drives, at least one of which is in a different geographical location.

**baro-nite** · 01-05-2016, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by jrpower10

For what I spent recovering that drive I could've paid for cloud storage for 10-15 years.

And would you have been fully synced up to the cloud while in the parks? Cloud storage is undeniably useful but as you point out the speed of upload/download is an issue. It won't be a primary backup for me because one of my main concerns is being able to continue to work without significant interruption. This is not a theoretical concern; I've twice had to make use of this ability.

For photos made while traveling I back up to my laptop, and from thence to my backup drive, and treat my SD cards like film -- no overwriting during the trip.

Clou · 01-05-2016, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

It may be a bit overkill, but every file I have exists on at least 3 physical drives, at least one of which is in a different geographical location.

No overkill if you care about your pictures and data and the way to go if you earn money with these.

**clackers** · 01-05-2016, 01:21 PM

Laptop, USB hard drive, cloud (currently OneDrive).

**jrpower10** · 01-05-2016, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by baro-nite

And would you have been fully synced up to the cloud while in the parks?

Actually I probably would've been. I had my laptop and was connected, but given limited hard drive space on the laptop I was loading my photo files to the external drive. As I'm set up now, under the same circumstances, I would've been OK, but like you I no longer over-write my cards till everything's backed up.

**baro-nite** · 01-05-2016, 05:05 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jrpower10

Actually I probably would've been. I had my laptop and was connected, but given limited hard drive space on the laptop I was loading my photo files to the external drive. As I'm set up now, under the same circumstances, I would've been OK, but like you I no longer over-write my cards till everything's backed up.

Good to know; in more and more places it's pretty reliable to get online.

I suspect most backup evangelists have learned the hard way. I've certainly had some close calls.

gifthorse · 01-05-2016, 05:45 PM

I just got the external drive back from the computer guy. No go. It seems to be a mechanical failure and he can't do anything with it. Bummer. So I get to buy another external drive. So which is better? Solid state? Hard disk? I would think that an HDD would, as I've experienced, be prone to mechanical failure. Is the SSD more reliable? Logic would say yes, but as the war department often tells me, my logic failed a long time ago. I guess I'll just have to surrender to machines that have more memory and logic than I do. I'm checking into syncing software to make backing up easier. Anyway, I do appreciate the input

**Alex645** · 01-05-2016, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by gifthorse

I just got the external drive back from the computer guy. No go. It seems to be a mechanical failure and he can't do anything with it. Bummer. So I get to buy another external drive. So which is better? Solid state? Hard disk? I would think that an HDD would, as I've experienced, be prone to mechanical failure. Is the SSD more reliable? Logic would say yes, but as the war department often tells me, my logic failed a long time ago. I guess I'll just have to surrender to machines that have more memory and logic than I do. I'm checking into syncing software to make backing up easier. Anyway, I do appreciate the input

Sorry that they couldn't recover your files. In theory, solid state flash drives, having no moving parts, are more reliable but they are much more expensive. The least expensive 1TB SSD/Flash drives start at around $400 whereas a 1 TB Spindle external hard drive start at $50; 1/8 the cost.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-06-2016, 03:44 PM

My approach to back up is quite different.

I have used lap link, for almost 20'years to back up my PC to a separate USB drive or other computer through a network

It has a simple feature that allows you to copy through a window like windows file explorer' entire directories, but will only overwrite with newer versions. Since all my photos are in one directory (with a lot of subdirectories) it is one click and drag, and lap link manages the rest.

The only other thing I have to say is that I always generate a copy or save edits to a new file name and never overwrite my originals. That is a key, otherwise your back up gets eroded by your edits. That is part of workflow.

The separate disk gets locked away when not actually in use,mand I have considered a third disk off site as an additional safeguard

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01-05-2016, 08:47 AM	#16
VampyreGTX Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 84	I personally use the cloud and a server. The server is an homebuilt Lime Ware unRaid with 8TB so far (expandable to almost 100TB if I really wanted to). I upload my photos to SmugMug and then move them to the unRaid server so my photos are always in two places.

01-05-2016, 11:44 AM	#17
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	I've had enough hardware failures, either spontaneous or due to my own carelessness, to have become fairly serious about backups. A backup strategy needs to include not just the hardware and software components, but also the human component -- how much does the system depend on my own input and will I do it? I'm in Mac OS, and for software I'm currently using a combination of Time Machine for hourly backups and ChronoSync for daily clones. For hardware I currently have 5 different external drives. This is because my media storage (photos, music, videos) is now too large for my laptop drive (an SSD). Drive #1 has two partitions, one for Time Machine and one to clone my laptop's SSD. Drive #2 is the same; I swap them daily. Drive #3 is for media files. Drives #4 and #5, older units, are to back up drive #3. When I'm on the road, I usually carry drive #1 or #2. The system depends on my keeping the appropriate drive(s) plugged in and powered up, and manually starting the daily clone, and the backups to #4 and #5 (which I only do as needed). I've gotten pretty good about making these things into habits. I should test my backups more often.

01-05-2016, 12:17 PM	#18
Murfy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 803	We have a synology cloud station and then also use time machine. We went on vacation this year and turned the computer off before we left and when we came back home, it wouldn't turn back on, we had a failed drive. Then had a video card failure that did something I don't know, caused the fan to go crazy and then messed up the drive, I can't remember. it was like 3 things, after installing every thing from scratch the first time, my husband started using time machine. We have had to use the time machine back up once since then and that made things much easier.

01-05-2016, 12:22 PM	#19
Clou Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 925	This is really unfortunate - no way to recover some of the data? I had two HDD failures until now. Fortunately I mirror my data on different external and internal HDD drives, so there was no loss. I like SSDs for OS, programs and caching files during processing, but for storage I prefer the old-fashioned spinning HDDs. Companies offering data recovery tend to be better for the traditional HDDs, so if the need arises, currently the chances are better with the spinning HDDs (or spinning rust as theRegister calls these). This may change in the future, obviously. A good backup strategy is vital and if you earn your money with the pictures, an external storage (ideally in another town) is strongly recommended. I have to work on my backup schedule and strategy...

01-05-2016, 12:30 PM	#20
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kerrowdown I use the built in iMac program Time Machine, it backs up hourly and alternately to two multi TB external drives hanging off the back, without any intervention from me. I hasten to add... that all three, iMac and both external drives are running off the iBox UPS, just to cover me from spikes, surges and unexpected power outages. I'm like him. Plus, I copy my whole aperture library to one of my backup drives, once a month, some day when I'm going to be out all day.

01-05-2016, 12:45 PM	#21
jrpower10 Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Richland, Washington, USA Posts: 935	Cloud. Definitely. Protects you not only from hard drive failures, but theft, fire, user error, etc. The cost is so small there really isn't a lot of excuse not to. The least expensive options are slow to move back and forth, though, so working files need to stay local, either your hard drive or an external drive. To put things into perspective, I had a portable drive fail while on a photo trip to Yellowstone/Grand Tetons. 3 days of photos were on the drive when it failed and I spent several hundred dollars to recover the data (luckily almost everything was recoverable). For what I spent recovering that drive I could've paid for cloud storage for 10-15 years.

01-05-2016, 12:49 PM	#22
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	It may be a bit overkill, but every file I have exists on at least 3 physical drives, at least one of which is in a different geographical location.

01-05-2016, 12:54 PM	#23
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Originally posted by jrpower10 For what I spent recovering that drive I could've paid for cloud storage for 10-15 years. And would you have been fully synced up to the cloud while in the parks? Cloud storage is undeniably useful but as you point out the speed of upload/download is an issue. It won't be a primary backup for me because one of my main concerns is being able to continue to work without significant interruption. This is not a theoretical concern; I've twice had to make use of this ability. For photos made while traveling I back up to my laptop, and from thence to my backup drive, and treat my SD cards like film -- no overwriting during the trip.

01-05-2016, 01:13 PM	#24
Clou Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 925	Originally posted by Parallax It may be a bit overkill, but every file I have exists on at least 3 physical drives, at least one of which is in a different geographical location. No overkill if you care about your pictures and data and the way to go if you earn money with these.

01-05-2016, 01:21 PM	#25
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Laptop, USB hard drive, cloud (currently OneDrive).

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01-05-2016, 04:42 PM	#26
jrpower10 Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Richland, Washington, USA Posts: 935	Originally posted by baro-nite And would you have been fully synced up to the cloud while in the parks? Actually I probably would've been. I had my laptop and was connected, but given limited hard drive space on the laptop I was loading my photo files to the external drive. As I'm set up now, under the same circumstances, I would've been OK, but like you I no longer over-write my cards till everything's backed up.

01-05-2016, 05:05 PM - 1 Like	#27
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Originally posted by jrpower10 Actually I probably would've been. I had my laptop and was connected, but given limited hard drive space on the laptop I was loading my photo files to the external drive. As I'm set up now, under the same circumstances, I would've been OK, but like you I no longer over-write my cards till everything's backed up. Good to know; in more and more places it's pretty reliable to get online. I suspect most backup evangelists have learned the hard way. I've certainly had some close calls.

01-05-2016, 05:45 PM	#28
gifthorse Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Nevada Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,945 Original Poster	I just got the external drive back from the computer guy. No go. It seems to be a mechanical failure and he can't do anything with it. Bummer. So I get to buy another external drive. So which is better? Solid state? Hard disk? I would think that an HDD would, as I've experienced, be prone to mechanical failure. Is the SSD more reliable? Logic would say yes, but as the war department often tells me, my logic failed a long time ago. I guess I'll just have to surrender to machines that have more memory and logic than I do. I'm checking into syncing software to make backing up easier. Anyway, I do appreciate the input

01-05-2016, 05:57 PM	#29
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by gifthorse I just got the external drive back from the computer guy. No go. It seems to be a mechanical failure and he can't do anything with it. Bummer. So I get to buy another external drive. So which is better? Solid state? Hard disk? I would think that an HDD would, as I've experienced, be prone to mechanical failure. Is the SSD more reliable? Logic would say yes, but as the war department often tells me, my logic failed a long time ago. I guess I'll just have to surrender to machines that have more memory and logic than I do. I'm checking into syncing software to make backing up easier. Anyway, I do appreciate the input Sorry that they couldn't recover your files. In theory, solid state flash drives, having no moving parts, are more reliable but they are much more expensive. The least expensive 1TB SSD/Flash drives start at around $400 whereas a 1 TB Spindle external hard drive start at $50; 1/8 the cost.

01-06-2016, 03:44 PM	#30
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	My approach to back up is quite different. I have used lap link, for almost 20'years to back up my PC to a separate USB drive or other computer through a network It has a simple feature that allows you to copy through a window like windows file explorer' entire directories, but will only overwrite with newer versions. Since all my photos are in one directory (with a lot of subdirectories) it is one click and drag, and lap link manages the rest. The only other thing I have to say is that I always generate a copy or save edits to a new file name and never overwrite my originals. That is a key, otherwise your back up gets eroded by your edits. That is part of workflow. The separate disk gets locked away when not actually in use,mand I have considered a third disk off site as an additional safeguard