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02-25-2016, 01:12 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apet-Sure Quote
Any of you use RawTherapee? I'm new to RAW, and since I have zero budget for software I installed this free app. Fired it up a couple times just to see the interface. I don't know if it does layers/merging since I haven't used it proper yet. And I haven't yet read the 192 page manual.
I used it for some time until I got Lightroom. It's a decent program that has a lot of functions, but isn't exactly user-friendly sometimes (it took me forever to figure out how to export an image). The reasons why I switched are a) very little documentation, with almost all tutorials online (Youtube etc.) being on Lightroom or other payed software and not being easily replicable with RAWTherapee, b) missing clarity slider, HSL dialogue and lens corrections, and c) the fact that my results with RAWTherapee often looked unnatural.

So RAWTherapee is a decent software, but Lightroom is clearly superior, and that doesn't even include Lightroom's cataloguing options.

02-25-2016, 01:33 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
I used it for some time until I got Lightroom. It's a decent program that has a lot of functions, but isn't exactly user-friendly sometimes (it took me forever to figure out how to export an image). The reasons why I switched are a) very little documentation, with almost all tutorials online (Youtube etc.) being on Lightroom or other payed software and not being easily replicable with RAWTherapee, b) missing clarity slider, HSL dialogue and lens corrections, and c) the fact that my results with RAWTherapee often looked unnatural.

So RAWTherapee is a decent software, but Lightroom is clearly superior, and that doesn't even include Lightroom's cataloguing options.
My local photography club is having a Lightroom workshop this Saturday. The $142 that Rai93 paid is out of the question for me. I assume that the concepts of RAW development are somewhat universal regardless of how certain software implements the manipulations. I'm trying to decide if I want to attend. My guess is that I'll pick up useful knowledge, being a RAW beginner (pun intended). I was able to download a 192 page pdf manual for RawTherapee. Even so, it may only scratch the surface of some topics. A clarity slider definitely sounds useful. I remember reading something about creating/loading lens correction profiles in RT. We must use the tools we have access to. I might find that the comparison between LR and RT will force me to be creative about coming up with cash for LR. But that would take away from my lens fund.....

OFF TOPIC: My mum traced a Davis ancestor who was a gardener for the Earl of Buccleah (sp?) in Scotland in the mid-1700s, so I grew up thinking my heritage was Scottish. I bought books about Scotland and hoped to visit some day. Decades later a Welsh friend told me that Davis is a Welsh name, not Scottish. It gave me quite a jolt. What say ye?

Last edited by Apet-Sure; 02-25-2016 at 01:41 PM.
02-25-2016, 02:58 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apet-Sure Quote
My local photography club is having a Lightroom workshop this Saturday. The $142 that Rai93 paid is out of the question for me. I assume that the concepts of RAW development are somewhat universal regardless of how certain software implements the manipulations. I'm trying to decide if I want to attend. My guess is that I'll pick up useful knowledge, being a RAW beginner (pun intended). I was able to download a 192 page pdf manual for RawTherapee. Even so, it may only scratch the surface of some topics. A clarity slider definitely sounds useful. I remember reading something about creating/loading lens correction profiles in RT. We must use the tools we have access to. I might find that the comparison between LR and RT will force me to be creative about coming up with cash for LR. But that would take away from my lens fund ...
We've got to work with the tools we have I couldn't have bought it on my student budget either, but it was a birthday present from my parents. You should go to the workshop as it will teach you a lot of general knowledge on RAW development, and try to implement as much as possible in RAWTherapee. Just use it and see whether you like it. In regard to your lens fun - Lightroom has improved my photography more than any lens I ever bought. After I got the hang of it I went back to old images I had taken years ago (I had set my camera to JPEG+RAW back then because I knew I would get into RAW development one day) and they got so much better.

QuoteQuote:
OFF TOPIC: My mum traced a Davis ancestor who was a gardener for the Earl of Buccleah (sp?) in Scotland in the mid-1700s, so I grew up thinking my heritage was Scottish. I bought books about Scotland and hoped to visit some day. Decades later a Welsh friend told me that Davis is a Welsh name, not Scottish. It gave me quite a jolt. What say ye?
Merely being a German living in Scotland I'm afraid I cannot help you much with which name's Scottish and which isn't, but I think you're talking about Buccleuch You should definitely visit Scotland some time, the highlands are a magical place. I'm hiking there regularly and the early morning light illuminating the fog in the glens (valleys) in autumn, when the foliage if colourful, may be the most beautiful and magical thing I've ever seen. Will do some winter mountaineering in Glencoe on Sunday - weather forecast is exceptionally good, will probably yield some nice images.
02-25-2016, 03:29 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apet-Sure Quote
Any of you use RawTherapee? I'm new to RAW, and since I have zero budget for software I installed this free app. Fired it up a couple times just to see the interface. I don't know if it does layers/merging since I haven't used it proper yet. And I haven't yet read the 192 page manual.
It doesn't support layers as far as I know. No merge in RawTherapee either. You can download HDRMerge for that. RawTherapee is strictly a RAW developing program. You'd have to develop the RAW files in RawTherapee & then use GIMP or Photoshop to do layers & merging.

RawTherapee can be a bit tricky to use, but once you get the hang of it, figure out how to use the noise reduction, figure out how to set the demosaicing algorithms, & junk, you can get some very amazing results that can rival Lightroom's output. You basically have to keep playing with it & not be afraid to move sliders around to see what they do.

There is a RawTherapee link in my signature. I have created some processing profiles that get good starting results, but the rest of the final image tweaking is up to the user. You can always revert back to "default" profile or one of the processing profiles that you started with when you think you messed up the image & can't remember what to turn off or slide back to normal.

I was a former Adobe Lightroom user, but I eventually canceled my subscription once I started to match & even exceed Lightroom's processing abilities with RawTherapee. I don't develop every single RAW file. I only develop the RAW files that I plan on doing very large prints of or images that I really like. I don't want to sit in front of the PC all day trying to process RAW files. I have a life. Hhaaha!

02-25-2016, 04:37 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
the highlands are a magical place
I've been watching 'Monarch Of The Glen' on TV and yes, the highlands are glorious. If I visit, I might decide to stay, unless the locals don't like 'Yanks'.


QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
There is a RawTherapee link in my signature.
Squirrel (may I call you that, or is it too familiar for a new acquaintance), thanks for the RT comments. I'll check out your link.
02-26-2016, 01:34 PM   #21
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How long ago did you purchase Lightroom? If within 30 days, the obvious solution is to return and purchase the Photography Plan, which would give you Photoshop, and there isn't a better program at doing layers than that. Even if past 30 days, might be worth it to call Adobe and see if they'd credit you towards a subscription. Say you bought it by mistake because you thought it did layers, only to find out that this required Ps.
02-26-2016, 04:14 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
How long ago did you purchase Lightroom? If within 30 days, the obvious solution is to return and purchase the Photography Plan, which would give you Photoshop, and there isn't a better program at doing layers than that. Even if past 30 days, might be worth it to call Adobe and see if they'd credit you towards a subscription. Say you bought it by mistake because you thought it did layers, only to find out that this required Ps.
Good call - companies are often happy to refund a customer if s/he is willing to give them even more money for something else
02-26-2016, 05:26 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Good call - companies are often happy to refund a customer if s/he is willing to give them even more money for something else
Unfortunately It's a download from Amazon so it's nonrefundable, I'll probably just give them the $10 per month since I have the disposable income anyway and $10 isn't going to hurt me any.

02-26-2016, 06:41 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rai93 Quote
Unfortunately It's a download from Amazon so it's nonrefundable, I'll probably just give them the $10 per month since I have the disposable income anyway and $10 isn't going to hurt me any.
Maybe it's possible to sell and transfer your stand-alone LR6 to someone else?
02-27-2016, 01:54 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Maybe it's possible to sell and transfer your stand-alone LR6 to someone else?
It's not, and for good reasons. There's no way they could check and see if I've made digital copies of the software so giving me a refund would be based on an "honor" system and there aren't too many companies that do that anymore. I'm not too bugged about it because LR IS a great program, I'm just annoyed at the marketing of having something as integral to photography as layers not being included in a photography development program. It is what it is though. I guess I'll be digging out the old college books and re-learning photoshop, though I might have to buy some new ones. Oh well, such is life.
02-27-2016, 02:24 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rai93 Quote
I guess I'll be digging out the old college books and re-learning photoshop
Out of curiosity, did you have a look at the photomerge menu options in Lightroom?
02-27-2016, 03:37 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Out of curiosity, did you have a look at the photomerge menu options in Lightroom?
I did, however either I'm doing something wrong or taking the wrong pictures but it always gives me a not enough photos to merge error. Googling the problem points to several Adobe forum posts describing it as a bug that appeared in a recent update that still hasn't been fixed
02-27-2016, 03:40 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rai93 Quote
...a solid program where I can layer the photos in RAW
I must have missed something I suppose...can someone explain what is meant here?
02-27-2016, 03:49 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
I must have missed something I suppose...can someone explain what is meant here?
Um... I explained in the OP that although I love Lightroom, I really need a "solid program where I can layer the photos in RAW" for astrophotography, layering them in TIFF or JPEG lowers the quality, especially since I live in a light polluted town. I'd rather not risk losing ANY detail because astrophotography is something that's interested me for a long time and I plan on taking the best photos I possibly can with it. Since apparently the only program that actually offers good support for it and thorough tutorials is Photoshop, I'm most likely going to get the photography subscription.
02-27-2016, 03:50 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
I must have missed something I suppose...can someone explain what is meant here?
He wants to be able to take RAW files and layer them on top of each other in editing software.
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