Compressing a photo?

alamo5000 · 03-09-2016, 04:49 PM

I want to know how to effectively compress a photo. When I shoot I always shoot in RAW+...I also always use the highest settings on the camera (I am not sure if that matters or not). On my K3 it's menu option 1 line #2 "Image capture settings"...

I have it set to 3 stars but then it has a 'jpeg recorded pixels' and goes from XS all the way to L... not sure what that all means but I assume its only applicable to the JPEG because the RAW file is the RAW file. My RAW files are in DNG. I only use the in camera jpeg so that later on it's easier for me to sort out keepers. I don't have to import them into lightroom to see the image. It also makes finding an image a lot easier later on. Other than that I really have no use for the in camera JPEG.

But let's say for a minute I took a shot in RAW and processed it and exported it. Now I have this giant JPEG that looks as good as I can get it...Sometimes though when I want to downsize the image for using it online or email or any number of things (facebook)...sometimes my JPEG has artifacts all over it that to me are very ugly and very noticeable. Some of the images even look blurry.

I do not know the technical terms for all that but I assume the term 'artifact' is correct.

In any case what is a good method for me to compress a file and/or downsize it so that it doesn't have all those 'left overs' and so the image still remains sharp?

I am a firm believer in the KISS method so please don't get to technical on me. Some explanation would be helpful but more importantly a simple process to do that for my jpegs would be great.

Thanks!

Adam · 03-09-2016, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by alamo5000

In any case what is a good method for me to compress a file and/or downsize it so that it doesn't have all those 'left overs' and so the image still remains sharp?

You could create a photoshop action to halve the resolution of the original image, save as TIFF and use ZIP or LZW compression. That should still give you enough resolution to crop, and no artifacts will be introduced since TIFF is a lossless format.

Such a file should be 30-40% smaller than the original JPEG.

Originally posted by alamo5000

I have it set to 3 stars but then it has a 'jpeg recorded pixels' and goes from XS all the way to L... not sure what that all means but I assume its only applicable to the JPEG because the RAW file is the RAW file. My RAW files are in DNG. I only use the in camera jpeg so that later on it's easier for me to sort out keepers. I don't have to import them into lightroom to see the image. It also makes finding an image a lot easier later on. Other than that I really have no use for the in camera JPEG.

That's the JPEG resolution. As you pointed out, RAWs are always recorded at the sensor's actual resolution.

**jatrax** · 03-09-2016, 05:01 PM

quality settings in the camera only affect the jpeg.

For making a compressed photo, you export as a jpeg, that is by definition a 'compressed' format. How compressed is determined by the quality slider in the software you export from. In Lightroom for example you can set it from 0 to 100. In other applications they use numbers from 1 to 10 or 1 to 12. Some applications also have a "save for web" export which is even smaller.

alamo5000 · 03-09-2016, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Adam

You could create a photoshop action to halve the resolution of the original image, save as TIFF and use ZIP or LZW compression. That should still give you enough resolution to crop, and no artifacts will be introduced since TIFF is a lossless format.

Such a file should be 30-40% smaller than the original JPEG.

That sounds awesome! Now can you translate that into English?

I am only using an older version of LR so I would have no idea how to do what you just said.

Most of the time when I export the JPEG it's been exported a long time before I ever need to worry about compressing it...do I have to export from RAW to do that or can I convert an existing JPEG to do what you said?

---------- Post added 03-09-16 at 06:16 PM ----------

Originally posted by jatrax

In Lightroom for example you can set it from 0 to 100.

I will import a file and try to look for that setting.

Also when I view JPEGs I tend to use MS Office Picture Manager. That gives an option to compress to various sizes, documents, email, web...

How is that different than if I just resize the image to whatever size I want using that program?

**jatrax** · 03-09-2016, 05:55 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by alamo5000

Also when I view JPEGs I tend to use MS Office Picture Manager. That gives an option to compress to various sizes, documents, email, web...

Not familiar with that program but I would assume since you are starting from a jpeg you are resizing the jpeg which might be the cause of your artifacts. I never change a jpeg. If I want a change I go back to the RAW and re-export with the changes made.

I consider a jpeg to be the same as a physical print, a final product that cannot be changed.

**jpzk** · 03-09-2016, 06:39 PM

I would like to ask the OP if I may invade this thread with just one concern I have with "compression" of RAW files to JPEG's ... resulting from DCU5 handling of RAW files to JPEG's.
Is this OK with you?
Thanks.

JP

alamo5000 · 03-09-2016, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

I would like to ask the OP if I may invade this thread with just one concern I have with "compression" of RAW files to JPEG's ... resulting from DCU5 handling of RAW files to JPEG's.
Is this OK with you?
Thanks.

JP

Be my guest. I don't mind at all. Just as long as everything is in the general arena or related I don't care

I reserve the right to bring it back to the original topic at a later time LOL!!! J/K...

**jpzk** · 03-09-2016, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by alamo5000

Be my guest. I don't mind at all. Just as long as everything is in the general arena or related I don't care

I reserve the right to bring it back to the original topic at a later time LOL!!! J/K...

Thanks !!

Here it is:

Using DCU5 to open the RAW (DNG) files taken with the K3.
If I want to save them in JPEG's, I get :
"Save as with image processing ..." then,
"Save as type": (I choose JPEG)
"Compression Ratio" (I get to pick from 1 to 4 stars) ... does this mean that the higher the number of stars, the higher will the compression be and therefore "higher" quality ??

So, that was the query ... if that fits with the intent of this thread?

Thanks!

**jatrax** · 03-09-2016, 07:07 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jpzk

"Compression Ratio" (I get to pick from 1 to 4 stars) ... does this mean that the higher the number of stars, the higher will the compression be and therefore "higher" quality ??

Cannot speak specifically for DCU5 but in general the more stars the higher quality the jpeg, and thus the less compression and the larger the resulting file size.

**jpzk** · 03-09-2016, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Cannot speak specifically for DCU5 but in general the more stars the higher quality the jpeg, and thus the less compression and the larger the resulting file size.

Thanks for the reply.

That would make sense.
No further "demands" ...

BrianR · 03-09-2016, 09:24 PM

I also export from Lightroom whenever I need a jpeg. You can set up different export presets for different uses, email, uploading to forums, flickr, various printing configurations, etc.

Here's more info on the export dialog, including a video that shows you how to make your own presets:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/export-presets-settings-plug-ins.html

Do you have examples of the 'artifacts' you're seeing? Some websites will automatically resize and/or recompress anything you upload, so sometimes there's not much you can do. It's also possible that your MS Office Picture Manager is doing horrible things compression-wise, it you upload a few examples that might help.

Originally posted by jpzk

"Compression Ratio" (I get to pick from 1 to 4 stars) ... does this mean that the higher the number of stars, the higher will the compression be and therefore "higher" quality ??

It's almost surely as Jatrax has said, but it's easy to check - just export the same file at 1 star and at 4 stars but leave everything else identical. Whichever has the smaller size (in KB) has more compression and lower visual quality. The visual quality difference may be hard to detect depending on what compression the star ratings actually represent. For fun, you can try exporting at all four settings and check if you can tell them apart visually.

**jpzk** · 03-10-2016, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by BrianR

I also export from Lightroom whenever I need a jpeg. You can set up different export presets for different uses, email, uploading to forums, flickr, various printing configurations, etc.

Here's more info on the export dialog, including a video that shows you how to make your own presets:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/export-presets-settings-plug-ins.html

Do you have examples of the 'artifacts' you're seeing? Some websites will automatically resize and/or recompress anything you upload, so sometimes there's not much you can do. It's also possible that your MS Office Picture Manager is doing horrible things compression-wise, it you upload a few examples that might help.

It's almost surely as Jatrax has said, but it's easy to check - just export the same file at 1 star and at 4 stars but leave everything else identical. Whichever has the smaller size (in KB) has more compression and lower visual quality. The visual quality difference may be hard to detect depending on what compression the star ratings actually represent. For fun, you can try exporting at all four settings and check if you can tell them apart visually.

Sure is easy to check then !
Thanks for the suggestion.

snostorm · 03-11-2016, 02:48 PM

Hi alamo5000,

I'd suggest that you look into Jpeg Mini. It's a program that was developed to give you much smaller jpeg files without much loss of IQ. You can get their free version which allows you to process up to 20 images per day, or buy their full version. With this, you can develop your RAW files, and downsize them appropriately for website display at whatever specified pixel count dimensions, convert this to lowest compression (highest quality) jpegs, then recompress them with jpeg mini to reduce the file size further to save bandwidth without sacrificing much IQ. I've recently discovered this and am impressed. When an algorithm is developed for maximum compression with the least IQ loss, some amazing things can be done.

JPEGmini - Your Photos on a Diet!

Scott

03-09-2016, 04:49 PM	#1
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Compressing a photo? I want to know how to effectively compress a photo. When I shoot I always shoot in RAW+...I also always use the highest settings on the camera (I am not sure if that matters or not). On my K3 it's menu option 1 line #2 "Image capture settings"... I have it set to 3 stars but then it has a 'jpeg recorded pixels' and goes from XS all the way to L... not sure what that all means but I assume its only applicable to the JPEG because the RAW file is the RAW file. My RAW files are in DNG. I only use the in camera jpeg so that later on it's easier for me to sort out keepers. I don't have to import them into lightroom to see the image. It also makes finding an image a lot easier later on. Other than that I really have no use for the in camera JPEG. But let's say for a minute I took a shot in RAW and processed it and exported it. Now I have this giant JPEG that looks as good as I can get it...Sometimes though when I want to downsize the image for using it online or email or any number of things (facebook)...sometimes my JPEG has artifacts all over it that to me are very ugly and very noticeable. Some of the images even look blurry. I do not know the technical terms for all that but I assume the term 'artifact' is correct. In any case what is a good method for me to compress a file and/or downsize it so that it doesn't have all those 'left overs' and so the image still remains sharp? I am a firm believer in the KISS method so please don't get to technical on me. Some explanation would be helpful but more importantly a simple process to do that for my jpegs would be great. Thanks!

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03-09-2016, 05:00 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	Originally posted by alamo5000 In any case what is a good method for me to compress a file and/or downsize it so that it doesn't have all those 'left overs' and so the image still remains sharp? You could create a photoshop action to halve the resolution of the original image, save as TIFF and use ZIP or LZW compression. That should still give you enough resolution to crop, and no artifacts will be introduced since TIFF is a lossless format. Such a file should be 30-40% smaller than the original JPEG. Originally posted by alamo5000 I have it set to 3 stars but then it has a 'jpeg recorded pixels' and goes from XS all the way to L... not sure what that all means but I assume its only applicable to the JPEG because the RAW file is the RAW file. My RAW files are in DNG. I only use the in camera jpeg so that later on it's easier for me to sort out keepers. I don't have to import them into lightroom to see the image. It also makes finding an image a lot easier later on. Other than that I really have no use for the in camera JPEG. That's the JPEG resolution. As you pointed out, RAWs are always recorded at the sensor's actual resolution. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

03-09-2016, 05:01 PM	#3
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	quality settings in the camera only affect the jpeg. For making a compressed photo, you export as a jpeg, that is by definition a 'compressed' format. How compressed is determined by the quality slider in the software you export from. In Lightroom for example you can set it from 0 to 100. In other applications they use numbers from 1 to 10 or 1 to 12. Some applications also have a "save for web" export which is even smaller.

03-09-2016, 05:12 PM	#4
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam You could create a photoshop action to halve the resolution of the original image, save as TIFF and use ZIP or LZW compression. That should still give you enough resolution to crop, and no artifacts will be introduced since TIFF is a lossless format. Such a file should be 30-40% smaller than the original JPEG. That sounds awesome! Now can you translate that into English? I am only using an older version of LR so I would have no idea how to do what you just said. Most of the time when I export the JPEG it's been exported a long time before I ever need to worry about compressing it...do I have to export from RAW to do that or can I convert an existing JPEG to do what you said? ---------- Post added 03-09-16 at 06:16 PM ---------- Originally posted by jatrax In Lightroom for example you can set it from 0 to 100. I will import a file and try to look for that setting. Also when I view JPEGs I tend to use MS Office Picture Manager. That gives an option to compress to various sizes, documents, email, web... How is that different than if I just resize the image to whatever size I want using that program?

03-09-2016, 05:55 PM - 2 Likes	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by alamo5000 Also when I view JPEGs I tend to use MS Office Picture Manager. That gives an option to compress to various sizes, documents, email, web... Not familiar with that program but I would assume since you are starting from a jpeg you are resizing the jpeg which might be the cause of your artifacts. I never change a jpeg. If I want a change I go back to the RAW and re-export with the changes made. I consider a jpeg to be the same as a physical print, a final product that cannot be changed.

03-09-2016, 06:39 PM	#6
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	I would like to ask the OP if I may invade this thread with just one concern I have with "compression" of RAW files to JPEG's ... resulting from DCU5 handling of RAW files to JPEG's. Is this OK with you? Thanks. JP

03-09-2016, 06:44 PM	#7
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962 Original Poster	Originally posted by jpzk I would like to ask the OP if I may invade this thread with just one concern I have with "compression" of RAW files to JPEG's ... resulting from DCU5 handling of RAW files to JPEG's. Is this OK with you? Thanks. JP Be my guest. I don't mind at all. Just as long as everything is in the general arena or related I don't care I reserve the right to bring it back to the original topic at a later time LOL!!! J/K...

03-09-2016, 07:00 PM	#8
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by alamo5000 Be my guest. I don't mind at all. Just as long as everything is in the general arena or related I don't care I reserve the right to bring it back to the original topic at a later time LOL!!! J/K... Thanks !! Here it is: Using DCU5 to open the RAW (DNG) files taken with the K3. If I want to save them in JPEG's, I get : "Save as with image processing ..." then, "Save as type": (I choose JPEG) "Compression Ratio" (I get to pick from 1 to 4 stars) ... does this mean that the higher the number of stars, the higher will the compression be and therefore "higher" quality ?? So, that was the query ... if that fits with the intent of this thread? Thanks!

03-09-2016, 07:07 PM - 1 Like	#9
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by jpzk "Compression Ratio" (I get to pick from 1 to 4 stars) ... does this mean that the higher the number of stars, the higher will the compression be and therefore "higher" quality ?? Cannot speak specifically for DCU5 but in general the more stars the higher quality the jpeg, and thus the less compression and the larger the resulting file size.

03-09-2016, 07:28 PM	#10
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by jatrax Cannot speak specifically for DCU5 but in general the more stars the higher quality the jpeg, and thus the less compression and the larger the resulting file size. Thanks for the reply. That would make sense. No further "demands" ...

03-09-2016, 09:24 PM	#11
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	I also export from Lightroom whenever I need a jpeg. You can set up different export presets for different uses, email, uploading to forums, flickr, various printing configurations, etc. Here's more info on the export dialog, including a video that shows you how to make your own presets: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/export-presets-settings-plug-ins.html Do you have examples of the 'artifacts' you're seeing? Some websites will automatically resize and/or recompress anything you upload, so sometimes there's not much you can do. It's also possible that your MS Office Picture Manager is doing horrible things compression-wise, it you upload a few examples that might help. Originally posted by jpzk "Compression Ratio" (I get to pick from 1 to 4 stars) ... does this mean that the higher the number of stars, the higher will the compression be and therefore "higher" quality ?? It's almost surely as Jatrax has said, but it's easy to check - just export the same file at 1 star and at 4 stars but leave everything else identical. Whichever has the smaller size (in KB) has more compression and lower visual quality. The visual quality difference may be hard to detect depending on what compression the star ratings actually represent. For fun, you can try exporting at all four settings and check if you can tell them apart visually.

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03-10-2016, 08:33 AM	#12
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by BrianR I also export from Lightroom whenever I need a jpeg. You can set up different export presets for different uses, email, uploading to forums, flickr, various printing configurations, etc. Here's more info on the export dialog, including a video that shows you how to make your own presets: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/export-presets-settings-plug-ins.html Do you have examples of the 'artifacts' you're seeing? Some websites will automatically resize and/or recompress anything you upload, so sometimes there's not much you can do. It's also possible that your MS Office Picture Manager is doing horrible things compression-wise, it you upload a few examples that might help. It's almost surely as Jatrax has said, but it's easy to check - just export the same file at 1 star and at 4 stars but leave everything else identical. Whichever has the smaller size (in KB) has more compression and lower visual quality. The visual quality difference may be hard to detect depending on what compression the star ratings actually represent. For fun, you can try exporting at all four settings and check if you can tell them apart visually. Sure is easy to check then ! Thanks for the suggestion.

03-11-2016, 02:48 PM	#13
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Hi alamo5000, I'd suggest that you look into Jpeg Mini. It's a program that was developed to give you much smaller jpeg files without much loss of IQ. You can get their free version which allows you to process up to 20 images per day, or buy their full version. With this, you can develop your RAW files, and downsize them appropriately for website display at whatever specified pixel count dimensions, convert this to lowest compression (highest quality) jpegs, then recompress them with jpeg mini to reduce the file size further to save bandwidth without sacrificing much IQ. I've recently discovered this and am impressed. When an algorithm is developed for maximum compression with the least IQ loss, some amazing things can be done. JPEGmini - Your Photos on a Diet! Scott