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10-10-2016, 05:13 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by butangmucat Quote
This makes a lot of sense to me. Currently I have two laptops (one portable and one performance), three 2.5 inch USB HDDs, and two USB SSDs, but the way that Lr catalogs work basically limits my workflow to one laptop and its internal HDD which is quickly draining out (I use Windows, and the drive letters can drift around, making organization messy). Catalogless can effectively give me more freedom in organization of photos.
Maybe my process will help?
My LR catalogue and images are all on one large fast USB3 external drive. LR is installed on 2 PCs (one portable, one desktop) and the catalogue is pointed to the external drive (you will probably need to specify a fixed drive letter for the external drive in windows for both PCs, this is a one-time step). When I work on my catalogue (whichever PC) I just plug in the drive and start LR, then import, work, export, whatever. Then I just have a second drive to backup the first on a regular basis for safety. Nothing is stored locally to either machine, so they can have small fast SSDs to keep performance and reduce clutter.

10-10-2016, 07:55 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Some of the discussions above referred to the 'non-destructive RAW processing' ad hyperbole and why they'd make that claim as LR/ACR etc do the same. This statement from Dan Harlacher clarifies what is being referred to with that claim:

A big component of that is nondestructive editing. Everything done within Lightroom is nondestructive, but as soon as an image is sent to another application, including a plugin, its adjustments are baked in and saved as a new file. This can be hassle for photographers who want the flexibility to jump back and forth between making RAW adjustments and adding effects.

By contrast, “Everything within Photo RAW will be nondestructive,” Harlacher said. Every separate component of ON1’s software suite will exist as a module within Photo RAW. However, ON1 isn’t turning its back on Adobe. In fact, the entire Photo RAW program can run as a plugin within Lightroom, albeit with the usual loss of nondestructive edits when moving between the two applications.


Now I understand where the 'non-destructive RAW processing' headline comes from. If you'd like to read the full article it can be found here: An Inside Look at the Incredible Speed of ON1 Photo RAW | Digital Trends


Tas
I would think that a user could get the full non-destructive aspect that On1 is claiming through Photoshop in conjunction with ACR/Smart Objects/and Adjustment Layers. I suppose there will be an ease of use aspect, which On1 may have an edge on.
10-10-2016, 04:03 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Maybe my process will help?
My LR catalogue and images are all on one large fast USB3 external drive. LR is installed on 2 PCs (one portable, one desktop) and the catalogue is pointed to the external drive (you will probably need to specify a fixed drive letter for the external drive in windows for both PCs, this is a one-time step). When I work on my catalogue (whichever PC) I just plug in the drive and start LR, then import, work, export, whatever. Then I just have a second drive to backup the first on a regular basis for safety. Nothing is stored locally to either machine, so they can have small fast SSDs to keep performance and reduce clutter.
Well, I just moved to SilkyPix, which still uses sidecar files, when they were on sale early September.

I was also introduced to my photography professor's approach of using Bridge and ACR, which I also consider pretty workable.
10-12-2016, 04:22 PM   #19
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Some of the "non-destructive" claims are hyperbole as Lightroom and Capture One (and others) are also completely non-destructive as long as one doesn't switch to another software (such as PS). Capture One probably -- from what I've seen -- supports an even larger range of non-destructive local adjustments than ON1 Photo RAW.

The real advantages ON1 Photo RAW promises to deliver are, AFAIC:
  • supporting compositing of multiple images without involving PS. Neither LR nor C1 support that natively.
  • more retouching support (in the sense of content-aware fill, clone-stamping, etc.). Both LR and C1 provide some support for retouching but it is pretty minimal.
I'm not entirely enamoured by the ON1 interface, but I'm certainly interested in seeing the final product.

10-12-2016, 05:20 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Some of the "non-destructive" claims are hyperbole as Lightroom and Capture One (and others) are also completely non-destructive as long as one doesn't switch to another software (such as PS). Capture One probably -- from what I've seen -- supports an even larger range of non-destructive local adjustments than ON1 Photo RAW.

The real advantages ON1 Photo RAW promises to deliver are, AFAIC:
  • supporting compositing of multiple images without involving PS. Neither LR nor C1 support that natively.
  • more retouching support (in the sense of content-aware fill, clone-stamping, etc.). Both LR and C1 provide some support for retouching but it is pretty minimal.
I'm not entirely enamoured by the ON1 interface, but I'm certainly interested in seeing the final product.
Have you used On1 much?
10-12-2016, 07:07 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Have you used On1 much?
No, why do you ask?
10-12-2016, 09:41 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
No, why do you ask?
Just wondering really, several times I've seen people critical of the program though most haven't tried it. Please don't take that as an assertion of negativity towards you, I was just intrigued if you'd used it before.

I've used several iterations of the program over the last five years so I've been able to see and take advantage of the improvements in the program. I've been running Lightroom and Photoshop for longer and have found the latest version, Photo 10 has become the default program I use for a lot of my PP. This wasn't the case with previous versions, and whilst I don't think it's a solution for everything and everyone's needs I think more people should give the program a look as it does pack a lot of good features.

For their RAW program I"m hoping that it is as the pre-release info suggests, especially if they take up the pixel shift baton.

I guess time will tell all.

Tas
12-27-2016, 10:37 PM   #23
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So, is anyone using this as a Lightroom plug-in? What are your thoughts? I'm interested in it...

12-27-2016, 11:50 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
So, is anyone using this as a Lightroom plug-in? What are your thoughts? I'm interested in it...
Yes, I have it. At the moment, I think it's a bit half baked. Many features are not included yet, but are scheduled for inclusion in the 2017 updates (one every 4-6 weeks).
Features to come in 2017 Free Updates:

We prioritize user feedback and putting ideas into action. Here is the release plan we project for 2017, but you can be a part of what makes it in each release via The Photo RAW Project. We'll be adding incredible new features and enhancements with free updates in 2017.

Loupe pane
Reading compressed Fujifilm Raw files
Improved Shadows and Highlights ranges
Brushes larger than 400 px on Intel video cards
Quick Mask tool
Blur and Chisel Mask tools
View which settings have been applied to a photo
Improved compression for PSD files
Automatic lens correction
Lightroom migration assistant
Compare mode
Versions
Groups
Camera profiles
Portrait filter in Effects
Clone stamp tool
Red eye removal tool
Improved background processing
Improved support for viewing surrounding layers and masks when used as a plug-in from Photoshop or Layers
Improved support for Windows High-DPI displays
Masking enhancements
Color temperature measured in Kelvin
Develop and Effects Presets in the ON1 Panel in Adobe® Photoshop®
Additional support for new cameras
Additional bug fixes and performance enhancements


Also, if you use it as a LR plug-in, I don't believe you get to use the ON1 RAW engine. As I understand it (maybe someone can correct me), if invoking ON1 via LR, the standard Adobe RAW engine has been used, and a psd file is passed to ON1. In that respect, it is much like ON1 Version 10, but with fewer features (e.g., no portrait editor yet).

To use the ON1 RAW engine, you must invoke it directly. But I don't think it's yet as good as LR. The general colour and tone tweaks don't seem as responsive, and there are as yet no lens profiles.

Where ON1 is very good though is the huge selection of presets. Many of them are very nice. And they can be combined using layers, which you can't do in LR.

So, ON1 RAW is a work in progress. I'm surprised they released it in such a half-baked form. By the time all the updates are in place, I think it'll be pretty good.

One other issue that I don't think will change: the ON1 browser is not a cataloguer. They seem very proud of this! They seem to think everyone wants to dump their shoots in dedicated directories, just by file transfer from the SD card. I don't do that. I store all my photo files by year/month/day, and rely on the LR (or Aperture) cataloguer to access albums from this structure. I will certainly continue to store my files this way, so I will continue to catalogue via LR. That removes much of the point of ON1 RAW.

Last edited by Paul the Sunman; 12-30-2016 at 05:18 PM.
12-29-2016, 09:19 PM   #25
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Thanks! I'll probably hold off for a while before I try it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Yes, I have it. At the moment, I think it's a bit half baked. Many features are not included yet, but are scheduled for inclusion in the 2017 updates (one every 4-6 weeks).
Features to come in 2017 Free Updates:

We prioritize user feedback and putting ideas into action. Here is the release plan we project for 2017, but you can be a part of what makes it in each release via The Photo RAW Project. We'll be adding incredible new features and enhancements with free updates in 2017.

Loupe pane
Reading compressed Fujifilm Raw files
Improved Shadows and Highlights ranges
Brushes larger than 400 px on Intel video cards
Quick Mask tool
Blur and Chisel Mask tools
View which settings have been applied to a photo
Improved compression for PSD files
Automatic lens correction
Lightroom migration assistant
Compare mode
Versions
Groups
Camera profiles
Portrait filter in Effects
Clone stamp tool
Red eye removal tool
Improved background processing
Improved support for viewing surrounding layers and masks when used as a plug-in from Photoshop or Layers
Improved support for Windows High-DPI displays
Masking enhancements
Color temperature measured in Kelvin
Develop and Effects Presets in the ON1 Panel in Adobe® Photoshop®
Additional support for new cameras
Additional bug fixes and performance enhancements


Also, if you use it as a LR plug-in, I don't believe you get to use the ON1 RAW engine. As I understand it (maybe someone can correct me), if invoking ON1 via LR, the standard Adobe RAW engine has been used, and a psd file is passed to ON1. In that respect, it is much like ON1 Version 10, but with fewer features (e.g., no portrait editor yet).

To use the ON1 RAW engine, you must invoke it directly. But I don't think it's yet as good as LR. The general colour and tone tweaks don't seem as responsive, and there are as yet no lens profiles.

Where ON1 is very good though is the huge selection of presets. Many of them are very nice. And they can be combined using layers, which you can't do in LR.

So, ON1 RAW is a work in progress. I'm surprised they released it in such a half-baked form. By the time all the updates are in place, I think it'll be pretty good.

One other issue that I don't think will change: the ON1 browser is not a cataloguer. They seem very proud of this! They seem to think everyone wants to dump their shoots in dedicated directories, just by file transfer from the SD card. I don't do that. I store all my photo files by year/month/day, and rely in the LR (or Aperture) cataloguer to access albums from this structure. I will certainly continue to store my files this way, so I will continue to catalogue via LR. That removes much of the point of ON1 RAW.
01-07-2017, 11:55 AM   #26
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I'm always looking for slimmer simpler (not less intelligent or refined) methods of doing things. I always dislike bloat. I appreciate being able to hide or disable things I don't use to remove distractions or the extra visual time it takes to find them. Being visually impaired, this visual time happens everytime I do anything.

I am intrigued by some of On1's claims. I'm looking forward to reading user's observations.

Turns out in On1 you can hide / delete presets you don't need. Around the 11:00 mark.

Oh and in a month or so they'll be supporting Olympus Pixel Shift.. maybe pentax soon? At 1:07:00 or so.

Last edited by wissink; 01-07-2017 at 06:04 PM.
01-09-2017, 02:07 AM - 1 Like   #27
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I've been using On1 PhotoRAW for about 3 weeks now with a view to ditching LightRoom (currently on 4.4 - non subscription model). I'm not an expert processor and have never felt the need for Photoshop, so a package that I can use easily to navigate, tweak and export is what I'm after. LR is very good, but I'm one of those who really doesn't like the subscription model - and LR 6 standalone seems a bit overpriced for an application that could possibly do with an update. So I've been "playing" with On1 PhotoRAW to see how it suits me and how it measures up for quality.

The overall design appears excellent - most of what I need is easy to find and use and the layout, look and menus are good.
The quality of the output is also excellent - the "Resize" module is great to use and I haven't had an exported image that I've been unhappy with yet.
The feature set is still a work in progress - it has almost everything I use, but it doesn't yet have a CA removal feature - something us Pentax users with older lenses find very useful.
Stability is an issue - it does crash fairly often. It isn't as fast in many operations as the advertising blurb would have you believe - sometimes there is a significant "lag" when switching between "modules" (i.e. browse to develop). It does create High CPU conditions for 30 seconds or so at a time, but it doesn't seem to hog memory.

After a "crash", when you restart the Application you are presented with an mini-form that confirms your details and asks for some details of what you were doing at the time of the problem - this is then submitted to On1. And they do take this seriously, I've been contacted by their support and asked to submit a couple of Pentax K1 DNG files for them to use to help diagnose issues.

In my opinion it's not really ready yet - it is usable if you can put up with the crashes and lags - but it is definitely on the right track and if they can iron out the bugs.

Just my views so far
01-09-2017, 06:20 AM   #28
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ON1 to be a new RAW editor

I have now owned On1 Photo Raw, SilkyPix 7, and Affinity Photo for Windows in a process to ditch Adobe CC subscription (probably will restart using my dormant PS Elements 12 in order to use certain PS plugins) and I have a feeling that the On1 is the least ready one, even less than Affinity for Windows. I suffered a lot of random crashes and sluggish in performance (sometimes even worse than SilkyPix).

I use a laptop with Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 32GB RAM, and Nvidia Quadro K1100M graphics running Windows 10 and latest drivers, all these applications are installed on a Crucial M550 SSD and I do store my photos on a Crucial MX100 SSD temporarily before they are archived onto my USB HDDs, and I do set the scratch drive of my Adobe apps and On1 Photo RAW to a 12GB RamDisk, so I do not think that the random crashes and sluggishness is related to the raw performance of my machine.

Last edited by butangmucat; 01-11-2017 at 07:34 PM.
01-11-2017, 11:55 AM - 1 Like   #29
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I use on1 as a standalone app and have done for a few years

the developers seem to have a vision of where they are going but have some difficulty realizing that with no continuity from version to version or from other editing platforms the app's use invokes a learning curve that can be (is) frustrating

on1 products are more hardware dependent than any app I've ever used, they seem to have no tolerance for system variations
hence the crashes

that said I uninstalled 10.5 and installed raw
used it for a couple of hours
it ran slower and slower then blew up
after I rebooted my pc and let the crash report go through I restarted the app
it has worked quite well ever since
I don't know what was stuck in its craw but i'm much happier now
01-17-2017, 05:09 AM   #30
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Im a Lightroom user for years, all my workflow is Lr centered on speed to process images.
But Im worried about the day Lr will fail and I dont like the fact to be tied to 1 software...So I tried the On1 Raw, bought it back in november.

Im using either a Mac Laptop or the Trashcan, the nMP 2013. the latest running pretty well with Lr and all plugins (mainly NikSoftware) and never ever crash on me.
(I've optimized Lr a lot during all thoses years I reckon).

With on1 Raw converter I've got difficulties to work because it crashes quiet often, and especially it's super slow and /or sluggish.
IMHO They shouldn't have released this as a BETA back in december, it's not there at all.
Going from Grid to develop module takes too much time, and I've tried with only maybe tens of dng's images while at the same time I've got 60 000+ dng's in Lr.

Im not even talking about the missing features but I prefer to think positive and say to myself that, maybe in a year or 2, it will be possible to work as fast and with more functionalities then Lr.
The software developers seems rather interrested by feedback from photographers, they probably work really hard but at the same time they might be a small team so progress is slow.

I dont recommend it for now.
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