Silverfast scanner software?

Nesster · 07-30-2008, 09:47 AM

I'm considering buying some better software for my Epson 4490 than came in the box, specifically Silverfast.

But their pricing and product line is pretty confusing.
The generic SE 6.6 is $50
SE Plus is $104 - this adds 'multi exposure' which should increase dynamic range and reduce scan noise... at the cost of the time for multiple exposures of course
Ai 6.6 - $119 - this has the fancier controls and comes customized for the 4490, while the SE versions appear to be generic.

The $15 difference between SE+ and Ai bothers me. What are the relative merits of Ai vs. multi exposure? Which would get me the better scan most of the time?

(I'm not even sure anyone is in the position of having experience with the two?)

**Ahab** · 07-30-2008, 11:33 AM

Have you considered VueScan?

Nesster · 07-30-2008, 12:01 PM

Yes I have... and could still end up with VueScan, the cost certainly is nice. Do you have any particular quality advantage in mind?

I should have mentioned that the scanning I am doing is 35mm and 120 film

---

I saw this in the Digital Imaging review of Silverfast, now it sure sounds like the SE Plus has something unique vs. the Ai... I suppose I can download the eval copies of each to see for myslef

"The most exciting development in this release, however, is the new multi-exposure option. At PMA we discussed the feature with several scanner manufacturers who were universally delighted with it.

LaserSoft discovered that by scanning once for highlights and once for shadows (at two different exposures that is) and then combining the two scans into one high density range image, it was able to 1) reduce noise while 2) revealing shadow detail and 3) still retain highlight detail.

Scanner manufacturers are fond of quoting Dmax numbers (especially above 4.0), for their units but they don't easily confess that they've cranked up exposure so much to get that Dmax that the highlights are blown out. The rarely quoted density range is what you're really interested in (Dmax minus Dmin) for single pass scanning.

But with Multi-Exposure you can tap into that Dmax to get shadow detail without sacrificing highlight detail, which can be captured on a second pass exposed just for them. Ingenious."

davemdsn · 07-30-2008, 01:09 PM

I would imagine that the Ai version has all of the Plus version with the addition of the extended controls and scanner specific customization. I could be wrong.

falconeye · 07-30-2008, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Nesster

I'm considering buying some better software for my Epson 4490 than came in the box, specifically Silverfast.

But their pricing and product line is pretty confusing.
The generic SE 6.6 is $50
SE Plus is $104 - this adds 'multi exposure' which should increase dynamic range and reduce scan noise... at the cost of the time for multiple exposures of course
Ai 6.6 - $119 - this has the fancier controls and comes customized for the 4490, while the SE versions appear to be generic.

I have Silverfast SE Plus with ME (multi exposure). I got the ME because this appears to be the most significant addition on top of the Nikon Coolscan software which isn't bad either.

Silverfast SE Plus with ME has some fancy and mighty controls but actually, I prefer to do all this stuff within Lightroom. I consider a scanned image and a RAW image to be equivalent whereas SilverFast tries to cover the entire workflow to JPG. So, the ME feature with 48 Bit output is what I wanted.

What you won't find on their web pages is that, if you scan to 48 Bit, all the fancy and mighty controls are in yet another piece of software, called HDR studio (or so). And you must manually select output Gamma 2.2. Not a problem for me as I didn't want those. Just let you know. Also, the image profile embedded in the 48 Bit images isn't a generic profile. Photoshop can convert them in a batch action, though.

Silverfast Ai has one more, significant, addition: Scanner calibration using a calibration target (paper for flatbed, slides for film scanners). This does matter to professionals.

If you want the ME (multi exposure) feature, you actually need it as an extra feature to Ai Studio.

A last disclaimer: Their forum is crap. Their software's GUI is ugly. But the scans come out great.

Nesster · 07-30-2008, 02:00 PM

Thanks falconeye, that's very helpful. Sounds like the ME is a useful feature...

Based on my reading of Silverfast pricing strategy:

base SE = cheap
base SE + ME is approx the same as Ai without ME
To get ME and the other bells and whistles is at least another $100 for the Ai.

Which still leaves me the dilemma and task of downloading the two $100 products to see which one in fact produces the better scan of a negative.

Ai has the fancy controls and should be specifically geared to the 4490 - both of which are advantages. But the basic controls + ME may outweigh that. I haven't seen anything in my googling today that specifically looks at this trade off.

Looks like I can get the 'pro' version of VueScan for $80, which will do the calibration and put out RAW.

*Sigh* I'll have to download an eval copy of that too...

falconeye · 07-31-2008, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

Ai has the fancy controls and should be specifically geared to the 4490 - both of which are advantages. But the basic controls + ME may outweigh that.[...]
Looks like I can get the 'pro' version of VueScan for $80, which will do the calibration and put out RAW.

I think Ai Studio w/o ME is only useful for scanners not supporting ME. Demo their software. BTW, outputting RAW doesn't make sense with scanners. They don't have the Bayer pattern. TIFF is just fine.

Patty · 08-06-2008, 01:30 AM

Hi Nesster,
I think SilverFast is a software for professionals (beside the SE version),
it's much more sophisticated and powerfull then Vuescan or any software that comes with the scanner.
The edp awarded SilverFast as the best color management software 2008.

It's not that easy to use as the other softwares for beginners, but offers some unique features like Multi-Exposure,
ICC-Printer-Calibration, iSRD, and so on, some included, some additional.
You have to choose which ones you really need, because it get's really expensive, if you take the whole package

I think the SE plus with ME would be the right choice for your needs.

But remember, you'll need some time to get used to it, to understand all the features and to set them up properly.
Afterwards you'll get the best possible results. (There's a lot of usefull documentation in the web.)

regards
Patty

07-30-2008, 09:47 AM	#1
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Silverfast scanner software? I'm considering buying some better software for my Epson 4490 than came in the box, specifically Silverfast. But their pricing and product line is pretty confusing. The generic SE 6.6 is $50 SE Plus is $104 - this adds 'multi exposure' which should increase dynamic range and reduce scan noise... at the cost of the time for multiple exposures of course Ai 6.6 - $119 - this has the fancier controls and comes customized for the 4490, while the SE versions appear to be generic. The $15 difference between SE+ and Ai bothers me. What are the relative merits of Ai vs. multi exposure? Which would get me the better scan most of the time? (I'm not even sure anyone is in the position of having experience with the two?)

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07-30-2008, 11:33 AM	#2
Ahab Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Arnold, Md. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 762	Have you considered VueScan?

07-30-2008, 12:01 PM	#3
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072 Original Poster	Yes I have... and could still end up with VueScan, the cost certainly is nice. Do you have any particular quality advantage in mind? I should have mentioned that the scanning I am doing is 35mm and 120 film --- I saw this in the Digital Imaging review of Silverfast, now it sure sounds like the SE Plus has something unique vs. the Ai... I suppose I can download the eval copies of each to see for myslef "The most exciting development in this release, however, is the new multi-exposure option. At PMA we discussed the feature with several scanner manufacturers who were universally delighted with it. LaserSoft discovered that by scanning once for highlights and once for shadows (at two different exposures that is) and then combining the two scans into one high density range image, it was able to 1) reduce noise while 2) revealing shadow detail and 3) still retain highlight detail. Scanner manufacturers are fond of quoting Dmax numbers (especially above 4.0), for their units but they don't easily confess that they've cranked up exposure so much to get that Dmax that the highlights are blown out. The rarely quoted density range is what you're really interested in (Dmax minus Dmin) for single pass scanning. But with Multi-Exposure you can tap into that Dmax to get shadow detail without sacrificing highlight detail, which can be captured on a second pass exposed just for them. Ingenious."

07-30-2008, 01:09 PM	#4
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	I would imagine that the Ai version has all of the Plus version with the addition of the extended controls and scanner specific customization. I could be wrong.

07-30-2008, 01:40 PM	#5
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Nesster I'm considering buying some better software for my Epson 4490 than came in the box, specifically Silverfast. But their pricing and product line is pretty confusing. The generic SE 6.6 is $50 SE Plus is $104 - this adds 'multi exposure' which should increase dynamic range and reduce scan noise... at the cost of the time for multiple exposures of course Ai 6.6 - $119 - this has the fancier controls and comes customized for the 4490, while the SE versions appear to be generic. I have Silverfast SE Plus with ME (multi exposure). I got the ME because this appears to be the most significant addition on top of the Nikon Coolscan software which isn't bad either. Silverfast SE Plus with ME has some fancy and mighty controls but actually, I prefer to do all this stuff within Lightroom. I consider a scanned image and a RAW image to be equivalent whereas SilverFast tries to cover the entire workflow to JPG. So, the ME feature with 48 Bit output is what I wanted. What you won't find on their web pages is that, if you scan to 48 Bit, all the fancy and mighty controls are in yet another piece of software, called HDR studio (or so). And you must manually select output Gamma 2.2. Not a problem for me as I didn't want those. Just let you know. Also, the image profile embedded in the 48 Bit images isn't a generic profile. Photoshop can convert them in a batch action, though. Silverfast Ai has one more, significant, addition: Scanner calibration using a calibration target (paper for flatbed, slides for film scanners). This does matter to professionals. If you want the ME (multi exposure) feature, you actually need it as an extra feature to Ai Studio. A last disclaimer: Their forum is crap. Their software's GUI is ugly. But the scans come out great.

07-30-2008, 02:00 PM	#6
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072 Original Poster	Thanks falconeye, that's very helpful. Sounds like the ME is a useful feature... Based on my reading of Silverfast pricing strategy: base SE = cheap base SE + ME is approx the same as Ai without ME To get ME and the other bells and whistles is at least another $100 for the Ai. Which still leaves me the dilemma and task of downloading the two $100 products to see which one in fact produces the better scan of a negative. Ai has the fancy controls and should be specifically geared to the 4490 - both of which are advantages. But the basic controls + ME may outweigh that. I haven't seen anything in my googling today that specifically looks at this trade off. Looks like I can get the 'pro' version of VueScan for $80, which will do the calibration and put out RAW. Sigh I'll have to download an eval copy of that too...

07-31-2008, 01:22 AM	#7
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Nesster Ai has the fancy controls and should be specifically geared to the 4490 - both of which are advantages. But the basic controls + ME may outweigh that.[...] Looks like I can get the 'pro' version of VueScan for $80, which will do the calibration and put out RAW. I think Ai Studio w/o ME is only useful for scanners not supporting ME. Demo their software. BTW, outputting RAW doesn't make sense with scanners. They don't have the Bayer pattern. TIFF is just fine.

08-06-2008, 01:30 AM	#8
Patty Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2	Hi Nesster, I think SilverFast is a software for professionals (beside the SE version), it's much more sophisticated and powerfull then Vuescan or any software that comes with the scanner. The edp awarded SilverFast as the best color management software 2008. It's not that easy to use as the other softwares for beginners, but offers some unique features like Multi-Exposure, ICC-Printer-Calibration, iSRD, and so on, some included, some additional. You have to choose which ones you really need, because it get's really expensive, if you take the whole package I think the SE plus with ME would be the right choice for your needs. But remember, you'll need some time to get used to it, to understand all the features and to set them up properly. Afterwards you'll get the best possible results. (There's a lot of usefull documentation in the web.) regards Patty