[interested_observer]

Well out of the blue, I received a PM on Reddit this afternoon, wanting to buy a large (at least 40 inch on the long side) print. Hit me over the head with a hammer!! I have a couple of questions..... and here is the image (Arizona Falls - it's a small hydro electric dam on the Arizona Canal in the center of the city).

The lady was wondering if it could be printed as a poster on a foam core. I've printed posters at Costco and a large print on pearl paper from an on line web printer (all for myself). So, I was going to use a local printer, for easy printing and pickup. Was going to go over and talk with a couple. I have been looking - I see I can mount on 4mm, 3/16 and 1/2 foam core. I can also have grommets put into the back for easy mounting.

The raw image size is 12,000 by 6,000 pixels, so there is more than sufficient image to do around 40 inches at 240+ppi with an aspect ratio of 3:2 - so thinking about a 42" by 28" print and then have the lab/printer mount it on the foam core.

Any word to the novice?

[Digitalis]

I cant say I have ever used foam core as a mounting substrate, the reason for this is that it isn't designed for longevity compared to competing materials. It is very prone to damage through careless handling. Also humidity changes can cause it to become dimensionally unstable, this would only be exacerbated by a print being mounted on one surface.

For direct mounting buffered foam core is essential, the adhesives used for surface mounting tend to be acidic which can cause discoloration and affect longevity of the print. Buffered foam core would diminish the chances of this happening* [ providing the adhesive used isn't so acidic it defeats the alkaline buffering provided by the foam core] so be sure to ask if the foam core being used is buffered or un-buffered and the type of adhesives being used. Mounting to gallery grade buffered archival grade matte board is a perfectly acceptable substrate for mounting, I have also used brushed Aluminium, Silver plated nickel plates, clear acrylic, shatter-proof glass and treated plywood used for surface and face mounting - each have their pros and cons.

* printing on buffered baryta base papers or cotton rag paper would also help to diminish damage and enhance image longevity. though you have to fit this around the clients requirements - do they want the print to be on gloss, pearl/semi-gloss or Matt? For prints the size you are thinking of, Pearl and Matt finishes are more popular.

[PePe]

A lot depends on how the customer is planning to use the print. For standard business use foam bords are widely used. Archival use is a different story.
There are different grades of foam bord. Some can stand a bit more than others, but all need to be handled with care. Thin foam core has an annoying tendency to warp due to temperature or humidity changes. In Arizona humidity may be less of a problem. However, in case the print is going to be used unframed, I would go for the thickest option.

[rrstuff]

I have printed a 40x60 inch image and placed it on a foam core. It looks fine after a couple of years of use. I vaguely remember it took around $140 for both printing and mounting, although it took some shopping around.
The most important piece of advice though, is that transporting something this big is a pain. I ordered a foam core via mail and it was badly damaged. I ended up doing the mounting locally and transporting it home myself. I wouldn't mail a 40x60 inch print unless you really have to. I would offer to ship a rolled image and have the buyer mount it locally, and transport it in their own car.

Other than that, foam core should be fine if they keep it in one spot, and gatorboard would be even more fine.

cheers.

[mikeSF]

many print houses will do foam core and do it well. I wasn't sure exactly what you are asking but the image is first printed on photographic paper of your choice then glue pressed onto the foamcore(thickness of your choice). This serves a few purposes including preventing the print from rippling when framed. In extreme humidity situations, I imagine the corners could lift over time.
I do mine at zenfolio and they have always done a great job.
good luck!

[honey bo bo]

The lady was wondering if it could be printed as a poster on a foam core

Back in the early 1980's 35 years ago I had a local Framing Business mount a couple dozen of my Photos on good quality foam core to hang in my Office I rented downtown. From 14" X20" up to 30" X 40" most of them with hangers pushed into the back for hanging. I couldn't afford at that time to frame all of them so a handful only were framed on the foam core the rest were put up on the wall as is. I did spray a Kodak UV coating on most of them to keep them from sunlight and acid deterioration or UV glass on the framed ones. Last year I closed my Office and gave away the photos to my children and sister-in-law all in the same condition they were in 35 years ago except for dust. No warping ;no noticeable deterioration but had to be handled very carefully of course to avoid damage from handling.


Congrats on the Sale! That is one of the most satisfying feelings when someone other than your Mother wants to give you some of their hard earned for one of your babies.

[interested_observer]

Good Morning Everyone! Thanks for the responses. Just as soon as I finish my bowl of Cheerios (Breakfast of Champions??), I was going to email the lady back about her request, asking for a bit more information, so that I can provide her with exactly what she desires. So, all of this is exceptional information for me. Last evening, I have been busily reading local print shop web pages, watching YouTube videos and just browsing printing/mounting pages - but really none of them touched on a lot of the items that have been brought up here.

I cant say I have ever used foam core as a mounting substrate, the reason for this is that it isn't designed for longevity compared to competing materials. I.........

* printing on buffered baryta base papers or cotton rag paper would also help to diminish damage and enhance image longevity. though you have to fit this around the clients requirements - do they want the print to be on gloss, pearl/semi-gloss or Matt? For prints the size you are thinking of, Pearl and Matt finishes are more popular.

This is all new to me. One of the questions I was going to ask was about the type of finish. In passing she wrote that poster board was just fine - but better finishes are not that much more.

A lot depends on how the customer is planning to use the print. For standard business use foam bords are widely used. Archival use is a different story.
There are different grades of foam bord. Some can stand a bit more than others, but all need to be handled with care. Thin foam core has an annoying tendency to warp due to temperature or humidity changes. In Arizona humidity may be less of a problem. However, in case the print is going to be used unframed, I would go for the thickest option.

She said, that she was going to hang it in a bedroom. Humidity is not really a problem in Phoenix.

I have printed a 40x60 inch image and placed it on a foam core. It looks fine after a couple of years of use. I vaguely remember it took around $140 for both printing and mounting, although it took some shopping around.
The most important piece of advice though, is that transporting something this big is a pain. I ordered a foam core via mail and it was badly damaged. I ended up doing the mounting locally and transporting it home myself. I wouldn't mail a 40x60 inch print unless you really have to. I would offer to ship a rolled image and have the buyer mount it locally, and transport it in their own car.

Other than that, foam core should be fine if they keep it in one spot, and gatorboard would be even more fine.

cheers.

Transport/shipping - that is the main reason I was going go to a local printer for this. That and I can bring the image along and ask questions. I can also pick up the final product and just deliver it...

Whether you go with "Archival Quality" materials or not really depends on the client's wishes for the artwork. If it's something that will be used for the client's lifetime (30-50 years) but not liely thereafter, nonarchival materials should be just fine. Gator Board and MightyCore are two such materials that while not 100% acid/lignin free, are much stronger and less prone to warping than regular foam core, matte board, etc.. When I was involved in museum work, we used them for signage all the time (we also had our own LF printer and vacuum press, so everything was done in-house. If the work is something that is intended to be an heirloom, then you will want to consider buffered archival backing material, which is intended to last 500 years+. Of course in that situation, there are other factors that are just as important, including using a UV protective glass cover, since the dyes are likely to degrade long before the substrate does.

Again, one of the questions I am posing to her in my return email. She wants to hang it in a bedroom - until she finds a frame that she likes. For the life of me, I can't see this particular image as a heirloom - unless her grandfather was the one who decided not to waste a couple hundred pounds of dynamite and leave the 20 foot cliff as a waterfall when they were constructing the canal a hundred years ago. But - then again, I am not the customer - and the customer is always right.

many print houses will do foam core and do it well. I wasn't sure exactly what you are asking but the image is first printed on photographic paper of your choice then glue pressed onto the foamcore(thickness of your choice). This serves a few purposes including preventing the print from rippling when framed. In extreme humidity situations, I imagine the corners could lift over time.
I do mine at zenfolio and they have always done a great job.
good luck!

I am finding that local printers do mounting too (which is something I really don't want to be bothered with - as the first time, I will find some way to screw it up).

Back in the early 1980's 35 years ago I had a local Framing Business mount a couple dozen of my Photos on good quality foam core to hang in my Office I rented downtown. From 14" X20" up to 30" X 40" most of them with hangers pushed into the back for hanging. I couldn't afford at that time to frame all of them so a handful only were framed on the foam core the rest were put up on the wall as is. I did spray a Kodak UV coating on most of them to keep them from sunlight and acid deterioration or UV glass on the framed ones. Last year I closed my Office and gave away the photos to my children and sister-in-law all in the same condition they were in 35 years ago except for dust. No warping ;no noticeable deterioration but had to be handled very carefully of course to avoid damage from handling.

Congrats on the Sale! That is one of the most satisfying feelings when someone other than your Mother wants to give you some of their hard earned for one of your babies.

The amount and variety of experiences on this forum is always amazing to me. I just read about grommets last night. My main/first concern is getting her the image intact and without damage. But, it is good to know that there is some substantial life in this mounting process.

_________________________

This image was just a spur of the moment, want to go do some practicing with bracketing and stitching in the evening. It has taken on something of a life of its own. I posted it on the Phoenix Reddit area, just for grins.

• One person emailed me asking how I took it - since they tried several times to duplicate it and their attempt was very flat and washed out. 5 frames stitched - each frame was 5 bracketed images +/-2ev (and 10 minutes of exposure time - since it was dark). I must have a fantastically expensive camera (K5IIs - obviously it all in the lens 60-250)!
• Another person contacted me a week or so ago about making the image Community Commons so that they could use the image on the Wikipedia page for the Arizona Falls. Looking on line at several hundred images on the falls - there are a lot of really "not so very good" images out there. There were about 10 that I would call really good - and I am just a smuck photographer.
• Then this request for a purchase.

Anyway, I guess I need to compose a return email with some questions!

[btnapa]

Well out of the blue, I received a PM on Reddit this afternoon, wanting to buy a large (at least 40 inch on the long side) print. Hit me over the head with a hammer!! I have a couple of questions..... and here is the image (Arizona Falls - it's a small hydro electric dam on the Arizona Canal in the center of the city).


The lady was wondering if it could be printed as a poster on a foam core. I've printed posters at Costco and a large print on pearl paper from an on line web printer (all for myself). So, I was going to use a local printer, for easy printing and pickup. Was going to go over and talk with a couple. I have been looking - I see I can mount on 4mm, 3/16 and 1/2 foam core. I can also have grommets put into the back for easy mounting.

The raw image size is 12,000 by 6,000 pixels, so there is more than sufficient image to do around 40 inches at 240+ppi with an aspect ratio of 3:2 - so thinking about a 42" by 28" print and then have the lab/printer mount it on the foam core.

Any word to the novice?

Any word to the novice?

My first question is how much are you charging. You do not have to answer that on the forum but it determines what kind of paper and mounting options you offer. I saw a few responses talking about fine art grade paper, acid-free options, all these things will cost you above average (Costco) prices. I am assuming you want to make money from this so you have to find out what they are willing to pay or more importantly what you are willing to live with in profits. All the printing options are considered after the selling price is established.

BTW, It is a nice pic.

[interested_observer]

My first question is how much are you charging. You do not have to answer that on the forum but it determines what kind of paper and mounting options you offer. I saw a few responses talking about fine art grade paper, acid-free options, all these things will cost you above average (Costco) prices. I am assuming you want to make money from this so you have to find out what they are willing to pay or more importantly what you are willing to live with in profits. All the printing options are considered after the selling price is established.

BTW, It is a nice pic.

In terms of price - right now I don't know. I say that because in looking at about 4 to 5 local printers that also do foam core mounting - I am getting a quick web quotes of $40 to $60, so I am thinking of really nothing over $100. I have posed the question to the lady, as to the budget she was thinking of. All in all, for all of this, I am somewhat willing to do this at cost. I am more than willing to take the profit as a learning experience (this time around) since it is a one off.

I do believe that there is room to go to some gloss, semi-gloss or nice matte stock. Tomorrow, I am going to call around and possibly visit a couple of the printers to get a sense what I can do, and what my actual operating envelope actually is. She wants as much detail as possible and some higher grade material - pearl paper, etc. I think will help bring that out. The one fly in the ointment, is the tree on the right hand side of the image. It being a 5 frame stitch (each frame being a 5 image bracket), that took about 10 minutes of exposure all total - the tree has some breeze movement in it. So, I am having a smaller throwaway print from costco made to just see how (good/bad) it looks. Also, to check the color, although going with a different printer the color profile will be somewhat different.

The one thing I have learned so far, is that originally - I cropped the image to 8162 x 3830 which is no where near any standard aspect ratio. 16x9 would be 8102 x 4557 which provides a bit more foreground reflection and sky lighting. I am going to have to watch how I crop from now on.

[Digitalis]

The issue of cost is a big one. When I was younger just making a name for myself I would bust the bank with the quality of my prints - and the reasoning behind this is that each print has to be presented to the best of my ability, this can lead to repeat business down the road: you have no idea who is going to see this print. The impression it makes upon them has to be positive.

using a UV protective glass cover, since the dyes are likely to degrade long before the substrate does.

This depends upon the makeup of the inks and the printing substrate upon which the inks are laid. Wilhelm Imaging Research have gathered that common dye inks* used on an un-framed print have a 5 year archival stability, pigments under identical conditions have a 45 years of archival stability. UV isn't the only problem for prints, ozone, humidity, heat, outgassing chemicals - all of which can have a negative effect upon the mounting substrate as well as the printed image itself.

. I would offer to ship a rolled image and have the buyer mount it locally, and transport it in their own car.

Actually this isn't a bad idea, if you were to do this. I would look up a local photo framer in their area and mail the image to them: the client can pick up the mounted image from the photo framer. The upshot to doing this is that a professional photo framer is more likely to have access to archival adhesives that will be appropriate for image mounting.


* in this case they were measuring the longevity of dye and pigment ink sets and archival printing papers manufactured by Epson.

[rrstuff]

In terms of price - right now I don't know. I say that because in looking at about 4 to 5 local printers that also do foam core mounting - I am getting a quick web quotes of $40 to $60, so I am thinking of really nothing over $100. I have posed the question to the lady, as to the budget she was thinking of. All in all, for all of this, I am somewhat willing to do this at cost. I am more than willing to take the profit as a learning experience (this time around) since it is a one off.

I do believe that there is room to go to some gloss, semi-gloss or nice matte stock. Tomorrow, I am going to call around and possibly visit a couple of the printers to get a sense what I can do, and what my actual operating envelope actually is. She wants as much detail as possible and some higher grade material - pearl paper, etc. I think will help bring that out. The one fly in the ointment, is the tree on the right hand side of the image. It being a 5 frame stitch (each frame being a 5 image bracket), that took about 10 minutes of exposure all total - the tree has some breeze movement in it. So, I am having a smaller throwaway print from costco made to just see how (good/bad) it looks. Also, to check the color, although going with a different printer the color profile will be somewhat different.

The one thing I have learned so far, is that originally - I cropped the image to 8162 x 3830 which is no where near any standard aspect ratio. 16x9 would be 8102 x 4557 which provides a bit more foreground reflection and sky lighting. I am going to have to watch how I crop from now on.

There are places that print by the foot, at a specified width, so cropping shouldn't be a problem. I wish I remembered the print house I submitted my print to because they did it at a good price. I think they were in georgia.

[Digitalis]

Go back and read my post again, because as usual, you obviously didn't bother read it through the first time.

i'll make a mental note not to post anything that agrees with you again. I was expanding upon the additional variables that may affect image longevity that you mentioned. If the image is intended for use as a simple poster the use of archival media isn't entirely needed - however when it comes to structural integrity archival media is more likely to be able to withstand the effects of time.

I have had people pinch my proof prints, at least I have the minor satisfaction of knowing they won't last longer than 30 years.

[interested_observer]

@Digitalis @rrstuff @dcshooter - All, I've been considering this all day. I did a print at Aspen Creek using Fuji Metallic Pearl paper and it provided a tremendous depth and detail to the image. I can via the web order a 30" x 40" for $55 and have it shipped in a hard tube. That will be my backup option.

Fuji Pearl - This metallic paper gives a unique glow to your photographic prints. Similar to Kodak "metallic" paper, Fuji Pearl brings the luster and depth of mother-of-pearl to your prints, with natural mica and metal oxides impregnated in the paper. It creates a look unlike traditional photo papers, which increases its impact on viewers.

Tomorrow - I'm going to call and drop by some local printers who both print and mount. I have not heard back from the lady, however - I think that metallic pearl is probably a good option (to bring out additional detail in the image). I still don't know what she is considering to spend - but Aspen will mount the image on 3/16 Gator for $52. I want to do the mounting locally to mitigate the risk of damage. So, it's a matter of shopping around, asking about their paper, ink, printing and process. Then consider everything and make a decision.

What I have found is that locally, no one discusses paper, ink and process on their websites - just bulk quantity and delivery. On the web printer sites, lots of discussions about paper, ink and process along with shipping. Overall, I think that I might be looking at the wrong set of local printers.

[rrstuff]

@Digitalis @rrstuff @dcshooter - All, I've been considering this all day. I did a print at Aspen Creek using Fuji Metallic Pearl paper and it provided a tremendous depth and detail to the image. I can via the web order a 30" x 40" for $55 and have it shipped in a hard tube. That will be my backup option.

Tomorrow - I'm going to call and drop by some local printers who both print and mount. I have not heard back from the lady, however - I think that metallic pearl is probably a good option (to bring out additional detail in the image). I still don't know what she is considering to spend - but Aspen will mount the image on 3/16 Gator for $52. I want to do the mounting locally to mitigate the risk of damage. So, it's a matter of shopping around, asking about their paper, ink, printing and process. Then consider everything and make a decision.

What I have found is that locally, no one discusses paper, ink and process on their websites - just bulk quantity and delivery. On the web printer sites, lots of discussions about paper, ink and process along with shipping. Overall, I think that I might be looking at the wrong set of local printers.

Does she have a university around? They often do large format printing because their graphic departments need to print conference posters that are 40 - 60 inches wide. Sometimes they are not only limited to serving the university community, but they don't advertise. It's possible they could print and frame on a board and prices could be better since they are not after a profit. That's just one extra thought. $105 for a 30x40 mounted image sounds reasonable.

[Digitalis]

Aspen will mount the image on 3/16 Gator for $52. I want to do the mounting locally to mitigate the risk of damage.

That sounds like a reasonable price and a solid plan. I have limited experience with working on metallic papers, though the pearl finish should be fine.