[Outis]

Adobe's business practices have made me really, really frustrated lately.

-- I do not like their new subscription model for their software. It assumes you can pay for it out of a steady income stream, which people may not have. What if you need the software on a grant, which will run out, or what if you don't have job security or know how much money you'll be bringing in from month to month? And even if you could commit to $X a month, there's no guarantee Adobe won't substantially jack up the price down the road. I'd rather pay a lump sum and be done with it.

-- I wanted Photoshop so I could use the many astrophotography tutorials that are out there. There was still a way to buy a non-subscription version of Photoshop Elements 15, so I bought that. It turns out that it doesn't have the tools I would need. There wasn't any indication at the time that what I was buying wasn't the full version or that there were tools I wouldn't be getting. So, I wasted $100 or whatever for software that doesn't even do what I needed it to do. If I wanted to spend a ton of time trying to figure this out on my own, I could have used GIMP for free.

-- Their customer service is terrible. I bought Lightroom instead of Photoshop by mistake, and it took over a month for them to refund my money. This involved spending close to an hour on their technical support chat on two occasions while their customer service representatives alternately sat idle and shuffled me between multiple people who did not know how to fix my problem. I then had to wait weeks for the promised e-mail follow-ups.

I do not pirate software, but if I did, I would have long ago reached the threshold where I would have pirated their stuff. And my experiences to date have further cemented my conviction not to go with their subscription model-- I don't want to have to deal with them any more in any capacity. What a giant waste of time and money.

[mee]

You can pay a lump sum.. go buy a 1 year card at B&H or Adorama.

I wish they had a non-contract monthly option though.. as to use the software in January but maybe not in February or March and not get charged for the unused months. Right now it is all or none for a 12 month cycle.

If you need a Photoshop clone, try Affinity Photo.. it may do what you need for a pittance.

[E-man]

Adobe's business practices have made me really, really frustrated lately.

-- I do not like their new subscription model for their software. It assumes you can pay for it out of a steady income stream, which people may not have. What if you need the software on a grant, which will run out, or what if you don't have job security or know how much money you'll be bringing in from month to month? And even if you could commit to $X a month, there's no guarantee Adobe won't substantially jack up the price down the road. I'd rather pay a lump sum and be done with it.

-- I wanted Photoshop so I could use the many astrophotography tutorials that are out there. There was still a way to buy a non-subscription version of Photoshop Elements 15, so I bought that. It turns out that it doesn't have the tools I would need. There wasn't any indication at the time that what I was buying wasn't the full version or that there were tools I wouldn't be getting. So, I wasted $100 or whatever for software that doesn't even do what I needed it to do. If I wanted to spend a ton of time trying to figure this out on my own, I could have used GIMP for free.

-- Their customer service is terrible. I bought Lightroom instead of Photoshop by mistake, and it took over a month for them to refund my money. This involved spending close to an hour on their technical support chat on two occasions while their customer service representatives alternately sat idle and shuffled me between multiple people who did not know how to fix my problem. I then had to wait weeks for the promised e-mail follow-ups.

I do not pirate software, but if I did, I would have long ago reached the threshold where I would have pirated their stuff. And my experiences to date have further cemented my conviction not to go with their subscription model-- I don't want to have to deal with them any more in any capacity. What a giant waste of time and money.

I feel your pain. I am equally not in favor of software by subscription but it rapidly becoming our new reality. I use M$ Office 365, not by choice but because my employer requires it. The nice part is I get the software for free--even on my own computers--but only for as long as I'm employed there. For my own needs, I'm just as happy with free alternatives like LibreOffice and the Web-based Google productivity apps. Likewise, I'm making the switch from Adobe to FOSS (free and open source software) alternatives like GIMP and RAW Therapee for my photographic needs. I've still got an aging copy of Photoshop Elements 9 on my computer but I'm using it less and less as I become more accustomed to GIMP. It's a challenge because of the dearth of resources to learn how to use GIMP effectively and I do miss certain tools like the Magic Lasso, but for the most part, I'm finding it more than adequate for my needs, especially for the price—or lack thereof.

[Outis]

You can pay a lump sum.. go buy a 1 year card at B&H or Adorama.

I wish they had a non-contract monthly option though.. as to use the software in January but maybe not in February or March and not get charged for the unused months. Right now it is all or none for a 12 month cycle.

If you need a Photoshop clone, try Affinity Photo.. it may do what you need for a pittance.

Unfortunately, that still doesn't get me a copy of the software to use in perpetuity.

[MJSfoto1956]

I've 100% switched to doing all my post-processing in Affinity Photo after 25+ years of using every version of Photoshop since v1.0

(Note: I still do all my RAW conversions using DxO Optics Pro)

YMMV

Michael

[clickclick]

Completely feel your pain on this one. I've been using Corel Aftershot Pro 3 and Paintshop Pro X9, but as you found, all the tutorials etc. are aimed towards Adobe. So, with that in mind, I bought a standalone copy of Lightroom on DVD last week because I still can. I figured that's half the battle, and at least I can keep the Lightroom 6 and not worry about it dying on me. I realize Adobe will probably try to get me at some point with a feature or newer camera support they won't add to it, but so be it. Meanwhile, I'm still going back and forth between both products and looking at other similar software. I actually like the Aftershot Pro and Painshop Pro products, but I am new to doing post processing, and don't do a lot of it - still mentally in film mode - get the shot with the camera, not the post processing, but I realize there's neat stuff that opens up with the software, so muddling through it all. Meanwhile, the near monopoly Adobe holds is tiresome at best, and not being a pro that can justify the cost, I'm really looking for anyway possible to use other products.

[UncleVanya]

Unfortunately, that still doesn't get me a copy of the software to use in perpetuity.

The software on subscription from adobe doesn't stop working when the subscription ends. The updates stop. You can't download it again etc. all cloud features end.

So it isn't quite as bad as you might think.

Subscription software models are here because they work. Many people are more likely to buy in and the steady income stream keeps the product development cycle more fluid due to funding.

EDIT: as indicated by others the EDIT (Develop Function stops in Lightroom and other functions become disabled. You can continue to use Lightroom catalog features - which since I use DXO as my raw developer I had not noticed in the past when my subscription briefly ran out.

---

Last edited by UncleVanya; 02-07-2017 at 07:27 AM.

[Fauxton]

The software on subscription from adobe doesn't stop working when the subscription ends. The updates stop. You can't download it again etc. all cloud features end.

So it isn't quite as bad as you might think.

Subscription software models are here because they work. Many people are more likely to buy in and the steady income stream keeps the product development cycle more fluid due to funding.

Not quite - from Adobe web site FAQs on CC
What happens to my benefits if I decide to stop my membership?

You continue to have access to Creative Cloud member free benefits. And, if you saved your work to your computer, you continue to have access to those files on your own device. You no longer have access to the Creative Cloud desktop applications or most of the services that are components of a Creative Cloud membership. And, your allowed cloud storage is reduced to 2 GB.


So you lose the ability to run the application.


I have CS6 and I will not buy CC. Nor will I ever consider a subscription based service for software for personal use. I have other things to do with my money than to feed the machine.

[stevebrot]

There was still a way to buy a non-subscription version of Photoshop Elements 15, so I bought that. It turns out that it doesn't have the tools I would need. There wasn't any indication at the time that what I was buying wasn't the full version or that there were tools I wouldn't be getting.

I am no fan of Adobe's business model(s) and you have your right to rant, but I thought a few comments and points of affirmation might be in order:

• The Adobe CC business model is poor value for many users, even at the lowest price point. The $9.99/month Photography Plan makes sense for heavy Photoshop users, but is money wasted for those who seldom use a full-on editor.
• Elements 15 is still available to purchase as DVD for $59 USD at B&H or download from Adobe. That is the full version. (There is no continuously updated CC version.)
• Elements 15 (full version) is available for free download for evaluation. My decision against purchase was based on the evaluation download.
• Elements 15 is not Photoshop nor even Photoshop "lite" despite a certain degree of interoperability and partial plug-in support. It is a completely separate product and is somewhat limited in several areas, particularly if attempting a color-managed work flow. Adobe does their customers a HUGE disservice by prefixing several their product names with the word "Photoshop".
• Adobe's product documentation truly sucks. This is true across its full product line at all levels (marketing, user guides, and post-sales support). As a result, it is difficult to do a comparison between product features.* It is little wonder you found yourself without the tools you expected.
• Adobe's Web site is truly opaque unless you are interested in their CC line.
• It is not obvious, but it almost never makes sense to pay list price for any Adobe product

If I wanted to spend a ton of time trying to figure this out on my own, I could have used GIMP for free.

Yes, you might have used GIMP for free. I am a long-time fan going back to GIMP's beginnings. The main reason I am not a current user is that I don't have an operational Linux install and find that PaintShop Pro better meets my needs on Windows due to its close emulation of Photoshop's layering features. One nice thing is that GIMP now supports 16/32 bit color. It is a very viable option and documentation is on a par with Adobe's.


Steve


* This is true even within-product. I have been a Lightroom user since v1.0 (currently using 5.x) and am still surprised to find undocumented and/or poorly documented features. Buying one of the excellent companion books is a great help, but should not be necessary.

[stevebrot]

I've 100% switched to doing all my post-processing in Affinity Photo after 25+ years of using every version of Photoshop since v1.0

How is that going? IIRC you were going to post a review of the Windows port. Did I miss it?


Steve

[beholder3]

Adobe's business practices have made me really, really frustrated lately.

-- I do not like their new subscription model for their software. It assumes you can pay for it out of a steady income stream, which people may not have. What if you need the software on a grant, which will run out, or what if you don't have job security or know how much money you'll be bringing in from month to month? And even if you could commit to $X a month, there's no guarantee Adobe won't substantially jack up the price down the road. I'd rather pay a lump sum and be done with it.

-- I wanted Photoshop so I could use the many astrophotography tutorials that are out there. There was still a way to buy a non-subscription version of Photoshop Elements 15, so I bought that. It turns out that it doesn't have the tools I would need. There wasn't any indication at the time that what I was buying wasn't the full version or that there were tools I wouldn't be getting. So, I wasted $100 or whatever for software that doesn't even do what I needed it to do. If I wanted to spend a ton of time trying to figure this out on my own, I could have used GIMP for free.

-- Their customer service is terrible. I bought Lightroom instead of Photoshop by mistake, and it took over a month for them to refund my money. This involved spending close to an hour on their technical support chat on two occasions while their customer service representatives alternately sat idle and shuffled me between multiple people who did not know how to fix my problem. I then had to wait weeks for the promised e-mail follow-ups.

I do not pirate software, but if I did, I would have long ago reached the threshold where I would have pirated their stuff. And my experiences to date have further cemented my conviction not to go with their subscription model-- I don't want to have to deal with them any more in any capacity. What a giant waste of time and money.

That what you get when companies think there are no alternatives.

You might want to look at Photoline (PhotoLine: Image Processing & Design Software) which is small, very fast and even has some advantages over Adobe PS, while at the same time able to run pretty much any third party plugin for PS. Costs 59 EUR once.
The unregistered version runs an unlimited time I think. Extremely powerful once you learned it. I do not expect standard users without specialty requirements ever to miss anything in there versus PS.
And it really doesnt flood your harddrive with gigabytes of crap.

[davidreilly3207]

Surprised no one has mentioned Corel's Paint Shop Pro.About 95% of the functionality of Photoshop, easy learning curve, reasonable price, free trial and a wealth of online learning resources. I don't know if it has what the OP needs as they did not specify what was needed but it costs nothing to give it a try. Despite being a cloud subscriber I find myself still using it for techniques I haven't mastered on Photoshop yet.

[stevebrot]

Surprised no one has mentioned Corel's Paint Shop Pro.

I did, but not as a recommendation. PSP is my raster editor of choice, but my level of expertise is lower than one might expect given my 20 year history with the product (yes, back to the good old days before the Corel purchase). Given that I don't use it frequently, I figured it best to not recommend.


Steve

[The Squirrel Mafia]

I stopped using Adobe products a while ago. Specifically because of this reason. I had a subscription to Lightroom & Photoshop, but in the end I realized that I hardly used them & it didn't make sense paying for the subscription. Open source programs like RawTherapee & GIMP didn't help Adobe's cause either.

One can add so many features to GIMP. My favorite add-on is G'MIC. It comes with all kinds of useful tool & features. Even has film simulations.

[Simen1]

I do not pirate software, but if I did, I would have long ago reached the threshold where I would have pirated their stuff.

Piracy is supporting their practice, and hurting the competition by not paying/donating to that in stead, and learn that software in stead.

An old but famous quote from Bill Gates:

About 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.

BILL GATES, speech at University of Washington, Jul. 2, 1998

The Adobe lightroom database, where all the work you did with the files are stored, are their way of blackmailing you / make you addicted. Its an encrypted proprietary file, that no other software can make use of. Pay or loose your work. Buying into the Adobe world of user friendly software are like buying heroin and being happy about its properties. Sooner or later you will regret it.