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07-16-2017, 02:30 PM - 1 Like   #1
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First time using Darktable on Linux

for first time I tried developing image in Darktable as the other PC with Adobe CC was disassembled for cleaning. Not bad I think but I need to learn a lot how to process images in Linux. I used Linux as my PC to go for web browsing but this is first time trying it for other stuff.

I have also one question for more experienced users of Darktable... It looks like that JPG export makes the images bigger, I meant with that size of the jpeg. Usually when I use Photoshop or Lightroom they are around 15MB but with Darktable they are much bigger speak this image bellow is 29.3MB raw file and jpeg 28.7MB. Strange a bit at least for me.

First image ever in Darktable!



07-16-2017, 03:47 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Long time darktable user here. You can produce any quality of image you want with dt. The export quality settings are bottom right of the lighttable screen. If the width and height are set to 0 and quality is set to 100%, then the image will be exported at maximum resolution as you have discovered.

I highly suggest reading over the latest manual at:

darktable 2.2 | user manual | darktable

There are other useful documents and tutorials available from the parent site there. It will take a while to get to grips with dt as it does with any other complex but capable program. But eventually you will develop a workflow that works for you.

Nice Red Admiral butterfly!

Jack

Last edited by jbinpg; 07-16-2017 at 03:54 PM.
07-16-2017, 03:47 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
I have also one question for more experienced users of Darktable... It looks like that JPG export makes the images bigger, I meant with that size of the jpeg. Usually when I use Photoshop or Lightroom they are around 15MB but with Darktable they are much bigger speak this image bellow is 29.3MB raw file and jpeg 28.7MB. Strange a bit at least for me.
What jpeg export quality setting are you using?

Cheers,
Terry
07-16-2017, 03:53 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by tduell Quote
What jpeg export quality setting are you using?

Cheers,
Terry
100% on Darktable
Adobe CC the same, I think 12... maximum quality.

07-16-2017, 07:52 PM   #5
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I set my JPEG exports to 90 in Darktable; file size is comparable to camera-generated files. If I'm exportiing for web-only use I'll drop that down to 85 or less depending on the image. If I'm going to do extensive edits in another program I use 16-bit TIFF files.

--Steve
07-16-2017, 08:04 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
100% on Darktable
Adobe CC the same, I think 12... maximum quality.
Not sure what 12 in Adobe means, but 100% in darktable means no compression.
I typically use 90% in Darktable, unless the image has significant areas lacking detail, in which case the quality can be raised and still result in a small file.

Cheers,
Terry
07-16-2017, 08:32 PM   #7
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Sorry, I mis-stated my settings: I do typically use 90, but that gives me files that are considerably smaller than JPEGs out of my K-30 (similar quality for my use, though). A setting of 95 generates JPEG files that are pretty close to the same size as ones straight out of the camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by ashurbanipal Quote
I set my JPEG exports to 90 in Darktable; file size is comparable to camera-generated files. If I'm exportiing for web-only use I'll drop that down to 85 or less depending on the image. If I'm going to do extensive edits in another program I use 16-bit TIFF files.

--Steve
07-16-2017, 08:59 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
Long time darktable user here. You can produce any quality of image you want with dt. The export quality settings are bottom right of the lighttable screen. If the width and height are set to 0 and quality is set to 100%, then the image will be exported at maximum resolution as you have discovered.

I highly suggest reading over the latest manual at:

darktable 2.2 | user manual | darktable

There are other useful documents and tutorials available from the parent site there. It will take a while to get to grips with dt as it does with any other complex but capable program. But eventually you will develop a workflow that works for you.

Nice Red Admiral butterfly!

Jack
I just get a glimpse on manual linked but I like it so far. It looks to me even more capable then Lightroom in some aspects. The only thing that I will miss is software I use for stitching (Autopano) and Nik. I looked also on youtube and there are also tutorials but did not had chance to watch any.

I do not think that Darktable is complicated, just learning curve, but it is complex. Time will tell.

I guess it is Red Admiral as for me is just nice butterfly. Thanks!

---------- Post added 07-17-17 at 12:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tduell Quote
Not sure what 12 in Adobe means, but 100% in darktable means no compression.
I typically use 90% in Darktable, unless the image has significant areas lacking detail, in which case the quality can be raised and still result in a small file.

Cheers,
Terry
QuoteOriginally posted by ashurbanipal Quote
Sorry, I mis-stated my settings: I do typically use 90, but that gives me files that are considerably smaller than JPEGs out of my K-30 (similar quality for my use, though). A setting of 95 generates JPEG files that are pretty close to the same size as ones straight out of the camera.
I guess it does work differently than LR.
12 is maximum quality in LR...

As I mentioned before, just learning curve. Will try tomorrow more export settings.

Question: I see the sidecars in folder after import but want to know if the sidecars can be embedded in exported files or they are embedded already?

07-16-2017, 09:24 PM   #9
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By default, darktable writes separate sidecar files. This can be changed in the Preferences (gear icon on top right menu bar) -> Core options -> and uncheck "write sidecar file for each image". Note that dt developers recommend *not* embedding sidecar files in your images. They discuss the reasons why not in the manual.
07-16-2017, 09:54 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
By default, darktable writes separate sidecar files. This can be changed in the Preferences (gear icon on top right menu bar) -> Core options -> and uncheck "write sidecar file for each image". Note that dt developers recommend *not* embedding sidecar files in your images. They discuss the reasons why not in the manual.
Thanks! Have to get there in the manual.
07-16-2017, 11:30 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
The only thing that I will miss is software I use for stitching (Autopano)
For stitching you might want to look at Hugin, I think builds are available for most of the mainstream Linux distros.
I have been using it for years on Fedora. One of the many nice things about Hugin is that any problems/bugs etc are rapidly dealt with and the user community is always helpful.

Cheers,
Terry
07-17-2017, 12:17 AM   #12
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I usually use a quality of 85-90 - I've done testing and usually I can't tell the difference between that and 100.

I recommend not embedding the sidecar in images if that's possible. It's good to have them separate. One use case is duplicating an image - to have two different editing series per image you can have two separate sidecar files.

Your picture looks good. I think you'll get the hang of it in no time. It has a slightly different way of doing things than Lightroom but it's also quite fun to experiment with the different modules and masks. Good luck!
07-17-2017, 12:47 AM   #13
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You can check this thread The Open Source Photography Course - Pentax Linux - PentaxForums.com

There are other youtube channels that give ideas about using darktable.

As for the file size I have also been using 100% but maybe I should try 90% as others have suggested.

Culture.
07-17-2017, 01:25 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by tduell Quote
For stitching you might want to look at Hugin, I think builds are available for most of the mainstream Linux distros.
I have been using it for years on Fedora. One of the many nice things about Hugin is that any problems/bugs etc are rapidly dealt with and the user community is always helpful.

Cheers,
Terry
I have already install the repositories for Hugin, just did not have time to try it out but on the other side I tried so many other software on Win10 Pro and nothing had better performance then Autopano Giga.
On the other side the newest version of Autopano runs on Linux Ubuntu 16.04 (64-bit only) and I meet those requirements!
It is a bit stupid that I have to spend money again to get the newest version and then run it on Linux (I am running Linux Mint, the newest stable version).

---------- Post added 07-17-17 at 04:33 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
I usually use a quality of 85-90 - I've done testing and usually I can't tell the difference between that and 100.

I recommend not embedding the sidecar in images if that's possible. It's good to have them separate. One use case is duplicating an image - to have two different editing series per image you can have two separate sidecar files.

Your picture looks good. I think you'll get the hang of it in no time. It has a slightly different way of doing things than Lightroom but it's also quite fun to experiment with the different modules and masks. Good luck!
I think I got it in regards of sidecars. Anyway I looked at Exif data on flickr and it does show all relevant data in jpeg image I posted speak no need to embed the sidecars. I should check that earlier but nonetheless I have checked now.

I figure out already how to turn masks already after minute trying some different ways and will soon look at some tutorials on youtube.

BTW Thanks for kind comments.

---------- Post added 07-17-17 at 04:35 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
You can check this thread The Open Source Photography Course - Pentax Linux - PentaxForums.com

There are other youtube channels that give ideas about using darktable.

As for the file size I have also been using 100% but maybe I should try 90% as others have suggested.

Culture.
Thanks for the link. Will check out this soon or after I get back from vacation in 3 weeks...

Last edited by RAART; 07-17-2017 at 01:38 AM.
07-17-2017, 02:43 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
I have also one question for more experienced users of Darktable... It looks like that JPG export makes the images bigger, I meant with that size of the jpeg. Usually when I use Photoshop or Lightroom they are around 15MB but with Darktable they are much bigger speak this image bellow is 29.3MB raw file and jpeg 28.7MB. Strange a bit at least for me.
Longtime DT user on Linux: at least some of the image size difference is due to the fact DT doesn't apply any noise-reduction by default. Try switching on "profiled denoise" and you'll see file sizes take a dip.
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