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07-21-2017, 09:01 AM   #1
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4k External Monitor

Currently I shoot with k70 and edit on my 2014 Macbook Air. Surprisingly it does just fine. A bit of lag when doing pano stitches but it's not something I do too much.

I am looking at getting an external monitor here in the UK. I've read a few sites that explained some of the basics like ISP, 4k colour this and that. I have also read my macbook air may not be able to support 4k.

So does anybody have some suggestions of some budget friendly monitors that can work well with a macbook air 2014 that will also work well with k70 raw files and 14-bit colour (if thats something I should be considering).

I hope to start printing soon and I am a bit tired of editing on a tiny screen. Would my macbook still function on a macbook air at 4k but not display at 4k? or do I need a screen that wont display 4k, if so what would be recommendations for resolution and size that would work well.

Any advice or info to help me get started I would appreciate.

Eric

07-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #2
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You might be better of getting 4k (UHD) TV set. Sony may be your choice, as they are preferable TVs as 4k monitors over other brands, but the edge might be very narrow (Samsung, Panasonic etc.).
You need 4k (3840x2160) capable graphics card in your PC/Mac, while card output frequency (i.e. 50i/p, etc.) is not important for stills.
What I regret a lot my, K-3 (an also K-1 / KP I believe) do not have 4k UHD hdmi output, just Full HD (1920x1200 or 1920x1080, I can't remember right now). I can watch photos directly from camera body with usb 3.0 cable connection, but unfortunatelly I am unable to delete [unwanted] photos this way (at least with my Samsung UHD menu - other manufacturers TV menus might be more friendly in that specific function).
I doubt any monitor 'work well with raw files', I expect they work with just JPGs embedded in RAW/PEF file.
For 14 bit check 'HDMI UHD colour'.


-----
QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
So does anybody have some suggestions of some budget friendly monitors that can work well with a macbook air 2014 that will also work well with k70 raw files and 14-bit colour.
07-21-2017, 09:54 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prakticant Quote
You might be better of getting 4k (UHD) TV set. Sony may be your choice, as they are preferable TVs as 4k monitors over other brands, but the edge might be very narrow (Samsung, Panasonic etc.).
You need 4k (3840x2160) capable graphics card in your PC/Mac, while card output frequency (i.e. 50i/p, etc.) is not important for stills.
What I regret a lot my, K-3 (an also K-1 / KP I believe) do not have 4k UHD hdmi output, just Full HD (1920x1200 or 1920x1080, I can't remember right now). I can watch photos directly from camera body with usb 3.0 cable connection, but unfortunatelly I am unable to delete [unwanted] photos this way (at least with my Samsung UHD menu - other manufacturers TV menus might be more friendly in that specific function).
I doubt any monitor 'work well with raw files', I expect they work with just JPGs embedded in RAW/PEF file.
For 14 bit check 'HDMI UHD colour'.


-----
ya I dont need to display directly from the camera.

Looking for something thunderbolt to hdmi so I can connect. I don't think mine will display 4k, so might have to settle for less which is fine as 4k seems to be pretty expensive.

Also want to make sure colour is accurate as I used to watch movies on my tv which displayed fine, but photos all displayed with weird or different colours. I see some monitors online come Pre Calibrated to sRGB
07-21-2017, 11:16 AM   #4
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go to the apple website and check specs for your Air; what it is capable of doing; my sons 11 inch certainly can do QHD with thunderbolt to HDMI or thunderbolt to display port cable ; get a monitor that has "thunderbolt" or Display port capability (is actually the same).
There is some PC's that allow 4K 60 Hz via display port. (new surface book fro example).
Monitor I personally have is the following:
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-U28E590D-28-Inch-LED-Lit-Freesync/dp/B00YD3DB...ng+4k+monitor;
Not sure how to calibrate relative to printer.

I found the air specs:
Graphics and Video Support Intel HD Graphics 5000 Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors.


So 4K does not make sense on your Air


Last edited by bwgv001; 07-21-2017 at 11:24 AM. Reason: additional info
07-21-2017, 11:30 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by bwgv001 Quote
go to the apple website and check specs for your Air; what it is capable of doing; my sons 11 inch certainly can do QHD with thunderbolt to HDMI or thunderbolt to display port cable ; get a monitor that has "thunderbolt" or Display port capability (is actually the same).
There is some PC's that allow 4K 60 Hz via display port. (new surface book fro example).
Monitor I personally have is the following:
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-U28E590D-28-Inch-LED-Lit-Freesync/dp/B00YD3DB...ng+4k+monitor;
Not sure how to calibrate relative to printer.

I found the air specs:
Graphics and Video Support Intel HD Graphics 5000 Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors.


So 4K does not make sense on your Air
Says mine would be 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors. So thats not bad, not 4k but I can do with less. My main goal is just to upgrade from my 11inch screen and get a bit more resolution and more detail.

If I have to use a thunderbolt to hdmi there should be an issue with quality or speed, but display port capability would be preferred.

Only reason I mention Colour Calibration is because I have seen it on a few monitors and comes 100% sRGB. Figured that must be a good thing as I dont want colours to be displayed different from mac to monitor.
Dell S2715H Full HD LED PC Monitor, 27 inch - Black
Asus PA238Q 23-inch IPS Professional Monitor (1080p Pre-Calibrated​, Display Port, HDMI, Ergo Stand)
BenQ BL3200PT AMVA+ 32 inch Monitor (16:9, 2560 x 1440, 3000:1, 4 ms GTG, DVI/DP1.2/HDMI/Speakers/2 x USB2.0, 2 x USB3.0) - Black/Glossy Black: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
07-21-2017, 12:12 PM   #6
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The 4k is refresh rate and will have no impact on your still photo editing, you have Intel built in display chip,,, so it is what it is,,, no upgrades there.

Look for IPS monitor, it will give you a better "angle of view:" for the monitor... that way you can be off center a little and still see the color correctly... for photo editing sRGB is needed. See if the monitor you are looking at says it will cover the full color range. ... AdobeRGB is the best but will cost you,, $$$$$ so go for the sRGB
If it is not calibrated when you get it you will need to... to get the color correct.... Especially if you want to print from your printer and get the same colors ( this is an iffy proposition, it may take some work to get the two to look the same,,, but you need to start with correct color in the monitor .

---------- Post added 07-21-17 at 12:20 PM ----------

forgot to mention,,, a lot of monitors will not even cover the sRGB color profile... so read carefully about what they say... IF they don't mention it, they probably don't even come close ...
07-21-2017, 12:32 PM   #7
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I'd say you'd want a 2.5k monitor, a 27" 2560x1440, which is the old pre retina iMac screen, basically.

You'll pay a ton for such a monitor with a wider than RGB gamut. But to get accurate color even within say the sRGB gamut on both screens you'll need to buy a colorimeter and calibration software, like the xRite or something. Doing it by eye is less than meh. Then you can use color profiles for the printer you're going to use to soft proof in say Lr to get reasonably accurate prints (the printer may show more colors than your displays). You could also get a device to calibrate the prints, but I dunno if that would be worth it to you.
07-21-2017, 02:55 PM   #8
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im still a while away from buying. But wanted to just increase my knowledge base, hense the feed.

BenQ BL2420PT 24-inch 2K QHD Designer Monitor (2560 x 1440, 100% sRGB, Rec 709, Height Adjustment, CAD/CAM and Animation Mode, VGA/DVI-DL/DP1.2/HDMI) - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

I have been looking at this one as it seems to come pre calibrated with 100% sRGB, so that should get me closer to the right colours and then that will get me closer to getting proper prints. Prints will be done by a shop. I dont have a printer. and if I do buy a screen I'll use that as my main editing screen and the mac as simply the power for that screen. So I imagine some change getting used to a slightly different (but hopefully more accurate colour profile)

I would like to get larger than like this Dell
Dell 27 Multimedia Full HD Monitor - S2715H | Dell UK

but it doesnt say pre calibrated or sRGB, although the Dell salesman said it does cover sRGB and is a comon entry level photo editing screen.

07-21-2017, 04:42 PM   #9
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Just marketing muble. How do they know your input source?


-----
QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
some monitors online come Pre Calibrated to sRGB
07-21-2017, 06:26 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
im still a while away from buying. But wanted to just increase my knowledge base, hense the feed.

BenQ BL2420PT 24-inch 2K QHD Designer Monitor (2560 x 1440, 100% sRGB, Rec 709, Height Adjustment, CAD/CAM and Animation Mode, VGA/DVI-DL/DP1.2/HDMI) - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

I have been looking at this one as it seems to come pre calibrated with 100% sRGB, so that should get me closer to the right colours and then that will get me closer to getting proper prints. Prints will be done by a shop. I dont have a printer. and if I do buy a screen I'll use that as my main editing screen and the mac as simply the power for that screen. So I imagine some change getting used to a slightly different (but hopefully more accurate colour profile)

I would like to get larger than like this Dell
Dell 27 Multimedia Full HD Monitor - S2715H | Dell UK

but it doesnt say pre calibrated or sRGB, although the Dell salesman said it does cover sRGB and is a comon entry level photo editing screen.
I have Dell S2715H display and I borrowed it to friend while I was away to do some work with his macbook but do not have a clue what type of macbook but he said that it is pretty accurate. I am using it for web only and my photo editing was done on different display (NEC) but yesterday NEC broke and I switched to Dell until I got another one. It is OK display and only that bothers me is that is glossy and sometimes that can be disturbing depending on your room and where your windows are.

My plan is to get one 27'' 5K display but will wait for good deals around Christmas. Until then this Dell is pretty good. I never run into any problems and need to get calibration device at some point.

My 2c
07-22-2017, 02:02 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
I have Dell S2715H display and I borrowed it to friend while I was away to do some work with his macbook but do not have a clue what type of macbook but he said that it is pretty accurate. I am using it for web only and my photo editing was done on different display (NEC) but yesterday NEC broke and I switched to Dell until I got another one. It is OK display and only that bothers me is that is glossy and sometimes that can be disturbing depending on your room and where your windows are.

My plan is to get one 27'' 5K display but will wait for good deals around Christmas. Until then this Dell is pretty good. I never run into any problems and need to get calibration device at some point.

My 2c
Thanks. Ya that Dell seems to be kind of the best deal for me for size and quality. I honestly haven't seen many matte monitors online. I'm an enthusiast photographer so I don't need pro one step at a time. If the monitors also doubles as a decent tv for YouTube and that the not bad either. NEC here are pretty expensive. Just tired of squinting at my 11" screen

---------- Post added 07-22-17 at 02:04 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Prakticant Quote
Just marketing muble. How do they know your input source?


-----
So pre calibration for sRGB doesn't mean anything? I guess the best bet is to bring my laptop to the store plug it in and see how images look on it. My flat screen tv make contrasts so black and colours so yellow. Would not have been good for editing.

Even Macbook to Android phone I notice differences in colour. But only small ones
07-22-2017, 07:40 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
Thanks. Ya that Dell seems to be kind of the best deal for me for size and quality. I honestly haven't seen many matte monitors online. I'm an enthusiast photographer so I don't need pro one step at a time. If the monitors also doubles as a decent tv for YouTube and that the not bad either. NEC here are pretty expensive. Just tired of squinting at my 11" screen
Dell S2715H is amazing for youtube and vevo. You will be not disappointed there for sure. It has very thin bezel that amazes me. When I got it first thing that came to my mind is that this can replace TV in small bedroom (it has speakers too, but you have to go into menu and put it louder as they are set at around 50%). I do recommend getting an display mount as it is very limited in adjustments, no height adjustment there. I have this one which is pretty good and can handle much bigger displays, up to 35lbs or 15.91kg: SANUS MD115 | Desk Mounts | Mounts | Products | SANUS
07-22-2017, 09:03 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
Thanks. Ya that Dell seems to be kind of the best deal for me for size and quality. I honestly haven't seen many matte monitors online. I'm an enthusiast photographer so I don't need pro one step at a time. If the monitors also doubles as a decent tv for YouTube and that the not bad either. NEC here are pretty expensive. Just tired of squinting at my 11" screen

---------- Post added 07-22-17 at 02:04 AM ----------



So pre calibration for sRGB doesn't mean anything? I guess the best bet is to bring my laptop to the store plug it in and see how images look on it. My flat screen tv make contrasts so black and colours so yellow. Would not have been good for editing.

Even Macbook to Android phone I notice differences in colour. But only small ones
Pre-calibration as you quoted it means something, in that it describes the inherent color gamut of the monitor. I googled it for you: How Color Gamuts for LCD Monitors Can Make a Huge Difference

The calibration I wrote of, as did others, is accomplished with a hardware colorimeter that you place on the monitor to calibrate the colors, since remember a monitor has to make say a pea green out of little dots. Like this: How to Calibrate Your Monitor

Furthermore, you can also calibrate printing results. But many just try to get true colors by using a proper WB (using say a card) and then using a color calibrated monitor to achieve consistent results. Wider gamut monitors give you more colors, essentially, and since printers are often more capable of more visible colors than the wider gamut is especially important to them. Each printer, like a monitor, has a profile and you can download these. Like say for all the Costco Photo Center printers. ColorWiki - Printer to Match my Screen
07-23-2017, 05:24 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
Pre-calibration as you quoted it means something, in that it describes the inherent color gamut of the monitor. I googled it for you: How Color Gamuts for LCD Monitors Can Make a Huge Difference

The calibration I wrote of, as did others, is accomplished with a hardware colorimeter that you place on the monitor to calibrate the colors, since remember a monitor has to make say a pea green out of little dots. Like this: How to Calibrate Your Monitor

Furthermore, you can also calibrate printing results. But many just try to get true colors by using a proper WB (using say a card) and then using a color calibrated monitor to achieve consistent results. Wider gamut monitors give you more colors, essentially, and since printers are often more capable of more visible colors than the wider gamut is especially important to them. Each printer, like a monitor, has a profile and you can download these. Like say for all the Costco Photo Center printers. ColorWiki - Printer to Match my Screen
thanks so much for the links and the reads. There never seems to be an easy solution. I wish it was like plug this screen in, edit, click print and voila, it works.

So basically the wider colour gamut I can get for my budget the better. Size seems to be a thing of preference. I guess a better quality 24" is better than a cheaper 32" monitor. Even if it comes pre calibrated, over time it may not be accurate and I will have to buy an external calibrater to make sure the monitor stays on track over time.

As for printing which seems to also be a big complex issue. Before sending to the printer I should add the printer profile. I won't be printing myself. I will be printing with a local printer, so hopefully I can work with them to determine the best process and hopefully can do some soft proofs to also help.

I figure if I am going to get into printing then having the right equipement and work flow will help solve fustration. I did print a calender last year on vista print with just jpeg, and as far as colour and accuracy seemed just fine, although I did add brightness to the photos. I did order glossy prints from an online sight and I would say the colour matched what I wanted, it just came out more vibrant and very dark contrast (hence why on the calendar I upped the brightness).

I am hoping since I want to work with a local place, I can developed a good relationship to get the product I am after. Have to start somewhere and learn through experience.

---------- Post added 07-23-17 at 05:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
Dell S2715H is amazing for youtube and vevo. You will be not disappointed there for sure. It has very thin bezel that amazes me. When I got it first thing that came to my mind is that this can replace TV in small bedroom (it has speakers too, but you have to go into menu and put it louder as they are set at around 50%). I do recommend getting an display mount as it is very limited in adjustments, no height adjustment there. I have this one which is pretty good and can handle much bigger displays, up to 35lbs or 15.91kg: SANUS MD115 | Desk Mounts | Mounts | Products | SANUS
So for a beginner screen and on a budget its a decent option for Photography and typical web browsing. And I supposed I could buy an external calibrator to make sure it stay colour accurate. From what I have seen in the UK since it's more expensive than the US. seems to be a decent deal here for specs and size.

I may have to put it in the bedroom where I can keep the room dark to combat the gloss
07-23-2017, 05:28 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
I will be printing with a local printer
Ask them if they are willing to give you copies of their printer profiles for soft proofing. This can take a lot out of the guesswork on how the final image will look on the media you intend to use* and save you the time and money of getting proof prints made.

*print media can have a drastic effect on tonality in images, And print media and inksets can look different under different kinds of lighting. Not every print maker will use the same brand media or inksets: so choose who prints your work wisely. Find a paper that you like, look up its archival properties and work from there. Have at least one go-to Gloss, Pearl and Matte paper.

Last edited by Digitalis; 07-23-2017 at 05:34 AM.
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