Google shows how easy it is for software to remove watermarks from photos

**Tas** · 03-13-2018, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Late replying ...

What's that steganography?
(too lazy to look it up)

TL;DR: Steganography is the practice of hiding secret messages in otherwise non-secret mediums.

I hadn't heard of the name either, but here's something I found that might help: Steganography: How to Hide Secret Data Inside an Image or Audio File in Seconds « Null Byte :: WonderHowTo

Tas

**BigMackCam** · 03-13-2018, 04:55 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Tas

TL;DR: Steganography is the practice of hiding secret messages in otherwise non-secret mediums.

Like the joke in a Christmas cracker??

Fenwoodian · 03-13-2018, 05:31 PM - **2 Likes**

.
Watermarked or not, every one of the better photos that I've posted to the Internet in the last 19 years has been stolen - multiple times.

Great, 5-star images that are visible on the Internet WILL BE stolen. If your images posted to the Internet are not being stolen, it's only because they are not considered good enough to steal.

Unfortunately, stolen images are a sign that your images are outstanding. Sick, but true...

SpecialK · 03-13-2018, 06:03 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jpzk

Late replying ...

What's that steganography?
(too lazy to look it up)

Your post took 4 times the effort of googling. I don't want to spoil it...

chebum · 03-14-2018, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

Watermarked or not, every one of the better photos that I've posted to the Internet in the last 19 years has been stolen - multiple times.

Did you try to get a compensation for these stolen photos? Or just take them down?

**boriscleto** · 03-14-2018, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

Late replying ...

What's that steganography?
(too lazy to look it up)

LMGTFY

dlhawes · 11-18-2020, 06:59 AM

revisiting this question; given there are several decent ways to earmark one's photographs in ways that are overt, hidden, and which can be used to demonstrate piracy by the fact of intentional obliteration, I've been able to find exactly zero methods of "watermarking" a digital image which can be tracked on the web. I'm thinking that there are JPEG single-hidden-pixel "images" people stick on webpages in order to track who's looking at what, but those rely on, and are really only hooks for, HTML code; i.e., it's not the "image" itself that's doing the tracking, but the code attached to it on the web-page. What I'd really like is to be able to embed bits in a TIFF file that I could track by searching using a conventional search engine; something that no one could see without knowing the details of the encoding method, but which I could find using google (for example). It's not enough to be able to prove the picture was pirated, you've got to be able to find the pirate first.

RobSpain · 11-19-2020, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Tas

I came across this article: Google shows how easy it is for software to remove watermarks from photos - The Verge that I thought some around here might be interested in, particularly if you're watermarking your images for protection.

There's a short video that shows the theory behind their paper, and there are links to the actual document if you are one of those boffin types that can do math with the alphabet.

Tas

Given the pace of AI these days I'm not surprised at this. Even using the content-aware filter in Photoshop can achieve reasonable results. But am I right in saying that in order to protect the photographer's copyright, the EXIF data in a photograph can NEVER be removed?

TonyW · 11-19-2020, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by RobSpain

.... But am I right in saying that in order to protect the photographer's copyright, the EXIF data in a photograph can NEVER be removed?

EXIF and XMP data can easily be removed. In Photoshop for instance the Save for Web option with the Metadata set to None will do this.

Legitimate reasons for doing this may include reducing file size, removing sensitive information etc.

**Rondec** · 11-19-2020, 03:48 AM

I am always under the impression that folks who are interested in "burgling" tend to head for places which look easier rather than the homes with 50 million dollar security systems. Obviously watermarks can be removed, but it is an extra step and I think would deter, even if it doesn't totally prevent, thievery.

house · 11-19-2020, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

Late replying ...

What's that steganography?
(too lazy to look it up)

Simplisticly, steganography is a way of encrypting data into an image in a way that is impossible to detect without the encryption key.

---------- Post added 11-19-20 at 03:59 AM ----------

Watermarks ruin the photo. I've had my photographs stolen a few times by newspapers and such. Honesly I dont care much as its been small reproductions. People use my photos all the time in non commercial ways which is fine by me. Sharing images is such a great thing to be able to do.

I hate Pinterest though. My photos are on lots of boards and come up in searches on the topics but I cant see them because you have to have an account ! I'm blocked from viewing my own photos but they still show up in searches to drive clicks to Pinterest. Aarrgh.

Decent publishers quickly find me as the source of the photo but generally the pay is so low that I rarely go through the hassle of getting paid. I guess I've could have bought a lens or two over the years.

RobSpain · 11-19-2020, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by TonyW

EXIF and XMP data can easily be removed. In Photoshop for instance the Save for Web option with the Metadata set to None will do this.

Legitimate reasons for doing this may include reducing file size, removing sensitive information etc.

Thanks! Yes, I appreciate that, but what I really meant was, can the exif data be removed from a jpeg once it's been published online?

house · 11-19-2020, 01:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RobSpain

Thanks! Yes, I appreciate that, but what I really meant was, can the exif data be removed from a jpeg once it's been published online?

Yes very easily. In fact many web services strip the exif before sending it to the users browser. Anyone downloading your image can also strip exif by simply opening it and re-saving it without exif data. This can also be automated or scripted.

automorphism · 11-19-2020, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I am always under the impression that folks who are interested in "burgling" tend to head for places which look easier rather than the homes with 50 million dollar security systems. Obviously watermarks can be removed, but it is an extra step and I think would deter, even if it doesn't totally prevent, thievery.

The problem is, the watermark with every passing year is becoming less and less like a good security system and more like a sign on the door saying "don't steal our stuff".

dlhawes · 11-20-2020, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by automorphism

The problem is, the watermark with every passing year is becoming less and less like a good security system and more like a sign on the door saying "don't steal our stuff".

Exactly. Which is why what I'm interested in is something that can be tracked when it shows up on the InterNet.

03-13-2018, 05:31 PM - 2 Likes	#18
Fenwoodian Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,874	. Watermarked or not, every one of the better photos that I've posted to the Internet in the last 19 years has been stolen - multiple times. Great, 5-star images that are visible on the Internet WILL BE stolen. If your images posted to the Internet are not being stolen, it's only because they are not considered good enough to steal. Unfortunately, stolen images are a sign that your images are outstanding. Sick, but true... Last edited by Fenwoodian; 03-13-2018 at 05:47 PM.

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03-13-2018, 04:49 PM	#16
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202 Original Poster	Originally posted by jpzk Late replying ... What's that steganography? (too lazy to look it up) TL;DR: Steganography is the practice of hiding secret messages in otherwise non-secret mediums. I hadn't heard of the name either, but here's something I found that might help: Steganography: How to Hide Secret Data Inside an Image or Audio File in Seconds « Null Byte :: WonderHowTo Tas

03-13-2018, 04:55 PM - 2 Likes	#17
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,673	Originally posted by Tas TL;DR: Steganography is the practice of hiding secret messages in otherwise non-secret mediums. Like the joke in a Christmas cracker??

03-13-2018, 06:03 PM - 1 Like	#19
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Originally posted by jpzk Late replying ... What's that steganography? (too lazy to look it up) Your post took 4 times the effort of googling. I don't want to spoil it...

03-14-2018, 03:53 AM	#20
chebum New Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 8	Originally posted by Fenwoodian Watermarked or not, every one of the better photos that I've posted to the Internet in the last 19 years has been stolen - multiple times. Did you try to get a compensation for these stolen photos? Or just take them down?

03-14-2018, 04:42 AM	#21
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by jpzk Late replying ... What's that steganography? (too lazy to look it up) LMGTFY

11-18-2020, 06:59 AM	#22
dlhawes Guest	revisiting this question; given there are several decent ways to earmark one's photographs in ways that are overt, hidden, and which can be used to demonstrate piracy by the fact of intentional obliteration, I've been able to find exactly zero methods of "watermarking" a digital image which can be tracked on the web. I'm thinking that there are JPEG single-hidden-pixel "images" people stick on webpages in order to track who's looking at what, but those rely on, and are really only hooks for, HTML code; i.e., it's not the "image" itself that's doing the tracking, but the code attached to it on the web-page. What I'd really like is to be able to embed bits in a TIFF file that I could track by searching using a conventional search engine; something that no one could see without knowing the details of the encoding method, but which I could find using google (for example). It's not enough to be able to prove the picture was pirated, you've got to be able to find the pirate first.

11-19-2020, 03:12 AM	#23
RobSpain Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Malaga province Posts: 488	Originally posted by Tas I came across this article: Google shows how easy it is for software to remove watermarks from photos - The Verge that I thought some around here might be interested in, particularly if you're watermarking your images for protection. There's a short video that shows the theory behind their paper, and there are links to the actual document if you are one of those boffin types that can do math with the alphabet. Tas Given the pace of AI these days I'm not surprised at this. Even using the content-aware filter in Photoshop can achieve reasonable results. But am I right in saying that in order to protect the photographer's copyright, the EXIF data in a photograph can NEVER be removed?

11-19-2020, 03:35 AM	#24
TonyW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 706	Originally posted by RobSpain .... But am I right in saying that in order to protect the photographer's copyright, the EXIF data in a photograph can NEVER be removed? EXIF and XMP data can easily be removed. In Photoshop for instance the Save for Web option with the Metadata set to None will do this. Legitimate reasons for doing this may include reducing file size, removing sensitive information etc.

11-19-2020, 03:48 AM	#25
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I am always under the impression that folks who are interested in "burgling" tend to head for places which look easier rather than the homes with 50 million dollar security systems. Obviously watermarks can be removed, but it is an extra step and I think would deter, even if it doesn't totally prevent, thievery.

11-19-2020, 03:51 AM	#26
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by jpzk Late replying ... What's that steganography? (too lazy to look it up) Simplisticly, steganography is a way of encrypting data into an image in a way that is impossible to detect without the encryption key. ---------- Post added 11-19-20 at 03:59 AM ---------- Watermarks ruin the photo. I've had my photographs stolen a few times by newspapers and such. Honesly I dont care much as its been small reproductions. People use my photos all the time in non commercial ways which is fine by me. Sharing images is such a great thing to be able to do. I hate Pinterest though. My photos are on lots of boards and come up in searches on the topics but I cant see them because you have to have an account ! I'm blocked from viewing my own photos but they still show up in searches to drive clicks to Pinterest. Aarrgh. Decent publishers quickly find me as the source of the photo but generally the pay is so low that I rarely go through the hassle of getting paid. I guess I've could have bought a lens or two over the years.

11-19-2020, 12:04 PM	#27
RobSpain Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Malaga province Posts: 488	Originally posted by TonyW EXIF and XMP data can easily be removed. In Photoshop for instance the Save for Web option with the Metadata set to None will do this. Legitimate reasons for doing this may include reducing file size, removing sensitive information etc. Thanks! Yes, I appreciate that, but what I really meant was, can the exif data be removed from a jpeg once it's been published online?

11-19-2020, 01:26 PM - 1 Like	#28
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by RobSpain Thanks! Yes, I appreciate that, but what I really meant was, can the exif data be removed from a jpeg once it's been published online? Yes very easily. In fact many web services strip the exif before sending it to the users browser. Anyone downloading your image can also strip exif by simply opening it and re-saving it without exif data. This can also be automated or scripted.

11-19-2020, 05:58 PM	#29
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	Originally posted by Rondec I am always under the impression that folks who are interested in "burgling" tend to head for places which look easier rather than the homes with 50 million dollar security systems. Obviously watermarks can be removed, but it is an extra step and I think would deter, even if it doesn't totally prevent, thievery. The problem is, the watermark with every passing year is becoming less and less like a good security system and more like a sign on the door saying "don't steal our stuff".

11-20-2020, 11:04 AM	#30
dlhawes Guest	Originally posted by automorphism The problem is, the watermark with every passing year is becoming less and less like a good security system and more like a sign on the door saying "don't steal our stuff". Exactly. Which is why what I'm interested in is something that can be tracked when it shows up on the InterNet.