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10-17-2017, 05:44 PM   #1
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Lightroom Woes

Not sure the best way to explain this, but here it goes.

When uploading photos to Lightroom from my K50, they always get really dark and saturated. Checking the histogram on the LCD of the K50 compared to the histogram on Lightroom, they don't match up. The pictures on Lightroom almost always seem like they're 1-2 stops underexposed. They also get really contrasty and really saturated.

Not new to Lightroom, but I haven't really shot my K50 in a couple of years, and I don't ever remember this happening before. When I had my 5D MKII that I recently sold, this never happened.

Any ideas as to why this happens? I always shoot RAW.

Cell phone picture to show what I'm talking about. Same picture on the back of the K50 as on Lightroom.


If it helps, this is the picture profile I use. It's a modified "Muted" profile.


10-17-2017, 06:12 PM - 1 Like   #2
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I wonder if it displays the processed version's thumbnail but shows the histogram based on the unadjusted raw data?

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10-17-2017, 06:41 PM - 1 Like   #3
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This recently happened to me with my K3. Turned out I had inadvertently bumped the exposure compensation button on the camera. The images looked correct on the camera screen, but when I uploaded them, I had to bump the exposure by 1.5 stops to get it correct.
10-17-2017, 06:46 PM - 2 Likes   #4
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Conjecture: Lightroom might be correct. The photo is underexposed, but the camera LCD brightness is cranked too high so you don't notice it. That's a different camera setting than the color profile.

Look at the bottom line of the K-50 photo display: 1/2000, F--, ISO 100. The F-- suggests you are using a manual lens. What aperture did you use, and what were the lighting conditions? We can calculate backwards and estimate if 1/2000 shutter would create underexposure.

10-17-2017, 07:11 PM - 2 Likes   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by 89Y49Si Quote
Checking the histogram on the LCD of the K50 compared to the histogram on Lightroom, they don't match up.
This is pretty much the rule. The in-camera histogram is based on the preview JPEG, which in turn reflects the JPEG image settings. Lightroom's, OTOH, is based on its RAW conversion as modified by the import profile and whatever settings applied in PP.

QuoteOriginally posted by 89Y49Si Quote
The pictures on Lightroom almost always seem like they're 1-2 stops underexposed. They also get really contrasty and really saturated.
What import profile are you using? If other than Adobe Standard, you might want to switch to that.

QuoteOriginally posted by 89Y49Si Quote
If it helps, this is the picture profile I use. It's a modified "Muted" profile.
Those profiles only apply to in-camera JPEG, in-camera RAW conversion, in-camera image review (JPEG and RAW), and RAW conversion using the Pentax software that came with your camera. In other words, proprietary Pentax stuff. Lightroom does not have the means to reproduce them for RAW conversion* and simply ignores them.


Steve

* This is generally the case, though Lightroom does have Pentax-provided import profiles that correspond to several of the custom image settings for several cameras. I don't remember if those include the K-30/K-50 models.
10-17-2017, 07:14 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
The histogram on the camera seems really strange. There's a ton of room at the right, yet if you look at the upper left corner of the image, it looks like the highlights are blown out. Is your brightness boosted extra high?
Brightness is about in the middle. Should mention that I never rely on the screen for accurate exposure, I always use the histogram on the camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote
This recently happened to me with my K3. Turned out I had inadvertently bumped the exposure compensation button on the camera. The images looked correct on the camera screen, but when I uploaded them, I had to bump the exposure by 1.5 stops to get it correct.
I donít believe I have exposure comp on, but Iíll certainly check.

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Conjecture: Lightroom might be correct. The photo is underexposed, but the camera LCD brightness is cranked too high so you don't notice it. That's a different camera setting than the color profile.

Look at the bottom line of the K-50 photo display: 1/2000, F--, ISO 100. The F-- suggests you are using a manual lens. What aperture did you use, and what were the lighting conditions? We can calculate backwards and estimate if 1/2000 shutter would create underexposure.
Manual lens is correct. I was using the K55 f/2. I believe the aperture was around f/4 for that picture and it was sunny out.

---------- Post added 10-17-17 at 07:18 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
What import profile are you using? If other than Adobe Standard, you might want to switch to that.
Adobe Standard is what I use. The only other option is Embedded Profile, but I donít use that one as it gives a green tint to the image.
10-17-2017, 07:48 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by 89Y49Si Quote
Brightness is about in the middle. Should mention that I never rely on the screen for accurate exposure, I always use the histogram on the camera.
Be aware that the JPEG brightness and contrast settings may influence the in-camera histogram. I don't have a K-50 at hand, but know this is the case for my K-3. Again, the histograms for both the camera and Lightroom represent the processed image's brightness distribution. They do not represent the camera's exposure meter reading or the base sensor response.

Yes, I know. This is a bit problematic, particularly if one is doing ETTR or some other histogram-dependent exposure scheme, but that is how it is. The histogram is never based on the RAW sensor response. White/highlight clipping is always a combination the actual exposure plus downstream image processing and quite legitimately so is the histogram.

My practice is to routinely use the "natural" custom image setting for RAW capture. Doing so provides a histogram that is generally representative of the subject as seen by the eye.


Steve
10-17-2017, 08:17 PM - 1 Like   #8
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Are you importing both JPG and DNG versions of the same image into LR, and, if so, do they look similar to each other, or do their exposures, and LR histograms, also vary between each other?

10-17-2017, 08:31 PM - 1 Like   #9
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Check if you have highlight correction enabled. On mh K-3 it causes a similar effect where the jpg looks fine but the raw data is underexposed when loaded in DXO.

Highlight correction underexposes about a stop to keep from blowing highlights and corrects it in camera when making the jpg. The jpg thumbnail included in the raw file is also corrected but opening it in a raw editor shows the underexposed raw data. Boosting by 1 to 1.5 stops should fix it, or turn off highlight correction on your camera. (If the K-50 doesn't have highlight correction you can just ignore what I've said.)

---------- Post added 10-17-17 at 11:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My practice is to routinely use the "natural" custom image setting for RAW capture. Doing so provides a histogram that is generally representative of the subject as seen by the eye.

Steve
I'm a fan of the natural setting too. It looks the closest to what I see and remember in my mind. Bright seems to overemphasize reds and oranges in skin and wood tones.
10-18-2017, 02:20 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeball Quote
Are you importing both JPG and DNG versions of the same image into LR, and, if so, do they look similar to each other, or do their exposures, and LR histograms, also vary between each other?
I shoot raw only, not raw+jpeg. So I’m not sure if they would look similar.

QuoteOriginally posted by TheOneAndOnlyJH Quote
Check if you have highlight correction enabled. On mh K-3 it causes a similar effect where the jpg looks fine but the raw data is underexposed when loaded in DXO.

Highlight correction underexposes about a stop to keep from blowing highlights and corrects it in camera when making the jpg. The jpg thumbnail included in the raw file is also corrected but opening it in a raw editor shows the underexposed raw data. Boosting by 1 to 1.5 stops should fix it, or turn off highlight correction on your camera. (If the K-50 doesn't have highlight correction you can just ignore what I've said.)

---------- Post added 10-17-17 at 11:37 PM ----------



I'm a fan of the natural setting too. It looks the closest to what I see and remember in my mind. Bright seems to overemphasize reds and oranges in skin and wood tones.
I have highlight correction and everything like that turned off.

---------- Post added 10-18-17 at 02:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Be aware that the JPEG brightness and contrast settings may influence the in-camera histogram. I don't have a K-50 at hand, but know this is the case for my K-3. Again, the histograms for both the camera and Lightroom represent the processed image's brightness distribution. They do not represent the camera's exposure meter reading or the base sensor response.

Yes, I know. This is a bit problematic, particularly if one is doing ETTR or some other histogram-dependent exposure scheme, but that is how it is. The histogram is never based on the RAW sensor response. White/highlight clipping is always a combination the actual exposure plus downstream image processing and quite legitimately so is the histogram.

My practice is to routinely use the "natural" custom image setting for RAW capture. Doing so provides a histogram that is generally representative of the subject as seen by the eye.


Steve
Iíll try shooting today after work in the natural profile to see if it changes anything.

---------- Post added 10-18-17 at 02:56 AM ----------

Another thing to note is that when first importing the pictures, they look normally exposed with low contrast and low saturation. But when the import is completed, the picture goes really dark.
10-18-2017, 05:02 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by 89Y49Si Quote
I have highlight correction and everything like that turned off.

...

Another thing to note is that when first importing the pictures, they look normally exposed with low contrast and low saturation. But when the import is completed, the picture goes really dark.
When you're importing it's probably showing the embedded jpg from the raw, and once it's done importing it looks at the raw data and applies a default profile. What you're describing sounds exactly like the highlight correction effect, so you might want to double check that it's still turned off.

It could also be that your default profile in Lightroom changed. Try adjusting a picture to a standard profile or no correction to see if that's the case. (Not sure the exact buttons on Lightroom but in DXO you right click the image and select "no corrections" it will show the raw image as shot with only your in camera settings applied.)

If you can't figure it out try shooting in raw+jpeg. If the jpg is underexposed too then it's either a camera setting or camera error and you can try doing a factory reset.
10-18-2017, 06:10 AM   #12
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The two histograms are actually very similar. Any differences in the peaks is probably due to

1. the camera showing a Luminosity histogram whearas Lightroom is showing a RGB histogram
2. Lightroom is displaying a histogram basis default parameters which have been applied to the raw file, whearas the camera histogram is using your own "muted" profile.

Having said that, both histograms show that the "brightness" ends about 60% of the range. From the shadows being cast in the pictures it was obviously a very bright day when you were photographing. You have seriously underexposed the image as indicated by the histograms failure to show any light tones on the right hand side of the scale. The fact that your camera LCD shows a burnt out image has to do with the settings for the LCD display, not your exposure settings. Reset that correctly and start again.

Have a look at this tutorial and the one that follows it http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm
10-18-2017, 06:12 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by TheOneAndOnlyJH Quote
When you're importing it's probably showing the embedded jpg from the raw, and once it's done importing it looks at the raw data and applies a default profile. What you're describing sounds exactly like the highlight correction effect, so you might want to double check that it's still turned off.

It could also be that your default profile in Lightroom changed. Try adjusting a picture to a standard profile or no correction to see if that's the case. (Not sure the exact buttons on Lightroom but in DXO you right click the image and select "no corrections" it will show the raw image as shot with only your in camera settings applied.)

If you can't figure it out try shooting in raw+jpeg. If the jpg is underexposed too then it's either a camera setting or camera error and you can try doing a factory reset.
Iíll double check when I get off work, but Iím like 99% sure I have every correction turned off. Iím using the standard Lightroom import profile also. Iíll also try the RAW+JPEG along with trying the Natural profile to see if either of those work.

Really appreciate all help everyone!

---------- Post added 10-18-17 at 06:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
The two histograms are actually very similar. Any differences in the peaks is probably due to

1. the camera showing a Luminosity histogram whearas Lightroom is showing a RGB histogram
2. Lightroom is displaying a histogram basis default parameters which have been applied to the raw file, whearas the camera histogram is using your own "muted" profile.

Having said that, both histograms show that the "brightness" ends about 60% of the range. From the shadows being cast in the pictures it was obviously a very bright day when you were photographing. You have seriously underexposed the image as indicated by the histograms failure to show any light tones on the right hand side of the scale. The fact that your camera LCD shows a burnt out image has to do with the settings for the LCD display, not your exposure settings. Reset that correctly and start again.

Have a look at this tutorial and the one that follows it Understanding Digital Camera Histograms: Tones and Contrast
If you notice though, the Lightroom histogram is quite a bit more bunched up? in the shadow area whereas the histogram on the K50 is more spread out in the shadow areas. It was definitely a bright sunny day when the picture was taken. And the display brightness on the camera is right in the middle. As Iíve said before, I never rely on the lcd screen for proper exposure, I always use the histogram. The LCD is only used to make sure composition and focus are correct. I followed the same way of thinking when I had my Canon, but I never encountered this problem while using it.
10-18-2017, 08:29 AM - 1 Like   #14
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Another option is to get your Pentax Digital Camera Utility software (or anything else - eg DxO Optics pro) to open the RAW, and compare it with what Lightroom is doing. It might help you figure out what's going on.
10-18-2017, 08:39 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Another option is to get your Pentax Digital Camera Utility software (or anything else - eg DxO Optics pro) to open the RAW, and compare it with what Lightroom is doing. It might help you figure out what's going on.
I was thinking about trying that also.
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