[BigMackCam]

And you have used RawTherapee in the past, haven't you? How do you compare the two if you have? Both in terms of usability and results.

I've only used the Windows build of RawTherapee (not sure if it differs much from the Linux version?). I think it produces great results. Noise reduction is very capable when used properly, and that's one of my main requirements in a good RAW developer. Unfortunately, that noise reduction isn't shown on anything less than 100% reproduction (for performance reasons, I believe) - which is a problem for me, as I like to have a reasonably accurate representation of images at all reproduction sizes (I'll often do general editing at 50% reproduction or smaller, before going into detailed adjustments at 1:1. Furthermore, I'm not a big fan of the user interface - the ergonomics don't sit too well with me. It's not bad by any means, but not my favourite. All of this said, I'd be perfectly happy to use RawTherapee, and still have it installed in my main Windows 10 partition.

As for Darktable... the current Windows beta isn't to my liking, and I would definitely choose RawTherapee instead at this point in time. The current Linux version, though, is another matter entirely... I'm really impressed. It's stable, fairly quick (very quick if you have a half-decent GPU), has a lot of great tools that - for the most part - work extremely well, and the user interface is really well thought out and polished. One of my favourite features is the blending capability: In addition to setting the strength of most tools, you can adjust how much the result is blended with the original image - by default, it's 100%. I'm finding this particularly effective with noise reduction and sharpening, where setting a higher strength of effect but with reduced blending can produce really appealing and very natural-looking results.

So, for me, Darktable 2.2.5 under Linux wins. It's a slick, mature, pro-quality tool that feels very intuitive to use (especially if you're coming from a Lightroom). In fact, I'm beginning to prefer it to Lightroom 6 in many ways, and I certainly didn't expect that. But again, I do think RawTherapee is a very decent option, especially if you judge it primarily on the quality of output (and that's what really counts, when all's said and done)

[UncleVanya]

What are people using not for processing but cataloging if not lightroom? The processing side I have with DXO - the cataloging is a mystery to me.

[ChristianRock]

Manual cataloging in my case... I just create meaningful folder names.

[UncleVanya]

Manual cataloging in my case... I just create meaningful folder names.

Today that's about the size of what I do. But I have been flirting with the idea of extending this to include keywords, ratings, etc. This will help me find things other ways.

[ChristianRock]

I've only used the Windows build of RawTherapee (not sure if it differs much from the Linux version?). I think it produces great results. Noise reduction is very capable when used properly, and that's one of my main requirements in a good RAW developer. Unfortunately, that noise reduction isn't shown on anything less than 100% reproduction (for performance reasons, I believe) - which is a problem for me, as I like to have a reasonably accurate representation of images at all reproduction sizes (I'll often do general editing at 50% reproduction or smaller, before going into detailed adjustments at 1:1. Furthermore, I'm not a big fan of the user interface - the ergonomics don't sit too well with me. It's not bad by any means, but not my favourite. All of this said, I'd be perfectly happy to use RawTherapee, and still have it installed in my main Windows 10 partition.

As for Darktable... the current Windows beta isn't to my liking, and I would definitely choose RawTherapee instead at this point in time. The current Linux version, though, is another matter entirely... I'm really impressed. It's stable, fairly quick (very quick if you have a half-decent GPU), has a lot of great tools that - for the most part - work extremely well, and the user interface is really well thought out and polished. One of my favourite features is the blending capability: In addition to setting the strength of most tools, you can adjust how much the result is blended with the original image - by default, it's 100%. I'm finding this particularly effective with noise reduction and sharpening, where setting a higher strength of effect but with reduced blending can produce really appealing and very natural-looking results.

So, for me, Darktable 2.2.5 under Linux wins. It's a slick, mature, pro-quality tool that feels very intuitive to use (especially if you're coming from a Lightroom). In fact, I'm beginning to prefer it to Lightroom 6 in many ways, and I certainly didn't expect that. But again, I do think RawTherapee is a very decent option, especially if you judge it primarily on the quality of output (and that's what really counts, when all's said and done)

I forgot to reply, but thank you for the detailed explanation I was wondering if I was missing anything compared to Lightroom and Darktable, both of which I have never used, in terms of the output quality... but it seems like RawTherapee hangs in there with them, despite the less user-friendly interface (that I am getting used to anyway!)...

[BigMackCam]

I forgot to reply, but thank you for the detailed explanation

You're welcome

I was wondering if I was missing anything compared to Lightroom and Darktable, both of which I have never used, in terms of the output quality... but it seems like RawTherapee hangs in there with them, despite the less user-friendly interface (that I am getting used to anyway!)...

Well, bear in mind I've been describing these tools from the "RAW development" point of view, and in that area I think all three are more than capable of producing excellent results. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, but they're all good.

Where Lightroom walks all over both RawTherapee and Darktable is photo cataloguing and management. By now, I'm absolutely certain I can move my RAW development workflow to Darktable (with just a few minor niggles that I can live with)... but it's not the most capable photo management tool. It offers some basic facilities, and they're decent enough for what they are, but I'd like something better - which means a separate piece of software just for that purpose. With RawTherapee, you're in much the same boat (perhaps even more so)...

RawTherapee is most certainly a good tool for RAW development, if you can warm to the user interface

[Oakland Rob]

You're welcome



Well, bear in mind I've been describing these tools from the "RAW development" point of view, and in that area I think all three are more than capable of producing excellent results. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, but they're all good.

Where Lightroom walks all over both RawTherapee and Darktable is photo cataloguing and management. By now, I'm absolutely certain I can move my RAW development workflow to Darktable (with just a few minor niggles that I can live with)... but it's not the most capable photo management tool. It offers some basic facilities, and they're decent enough for what they are, but I'd like something better - which means a separate piece of software just for that purpose. With RawTherapee, you're in much the same boat (perhaps even more so)...

RawTherapee is most certainly a good tool for RAW development, if you can warm to the user interface

That organizational thing is key. For some reason no other developer seems to want to go there, or at least very far there. Mylio is about the only one recently. There's existing ones, like Photos on the Mac, Photo Supreme, Capture One, ACDSee,etc, but I assume you've passed on those. Look at IMatch on PC, or Photo Mechanic. The latter is great at entering metadata so you can find stuff, but is much more oriented toward the entering rather than the finding. And there's Bridge, which is free, does collections and lots of metadata tasks. Graphic Converter on the Mac has quite a nice browser, and can do an awful lot, from metadata operations to renaming to geolocating.

But I'm afraid the photo management side of things is pretty much ignored, at least compared to image adjustment tasks. And when you look at all the other organizational stuff in Lr, from maps to slideshows to web, plus the export options, numerous organizational and metadata plugins, and especially publishing, you realize that you might need a few other applications to get your workflow done.

[victormeldrew]

And when you look at all the other organizational stuff in Lr, from maps to slideshows to web, plus the export options, numerous organizational and metadata plugins, and especially publishing, you realize that you might need a few other applications to get your workflow done.

This is one of the reasons Adobe feels confident that they can do pretty much whatever they want (and seem to be right).

Once you get beyond a few thousand images, decent cataloguing is not nice-to-have, it's absolutely essential. No amount of good folder naming will let you find pictures involving a particular friend's cat or everything where the model is wearing a hat and something red, let alone something as simple as images with a certain lens. There is nothing around (that I know of) that can do this and then reasonably seamlessly enter a capable RAW development tool from the catalogue. On top of this, LR is so ubiquitous that if you have a favourite plugin, it will doubtless be a plugin for LR - I would be very sad to have to stop using Nik, but the standalones are very clunky and the plugins are for LR.

All in all, everything I have read has gone along the lines of: this software is ok at this bit, coupled with software this which is almost as good at that bit, plus another software if you want to do this bit...a bundle of 3 or 4 independent tools with no integration and you can do most of what LR does almost as well as LR does it, with a massive workflow nighmare to get it done. Of course they can force a subs model on people and in no time, of course they can hike the price with impunity.

[Class A]

And when you look at all the other organizational stuff in Lr, from maps to slideshows to web, plus the export options, numerous organizational and metadata plugins, and especially publishing, you realize that you might need a few other applications to get your workflow done.

Well, most of these additional tasks are not handled very well by LR. The slideshow module was very rudimentary when I last saw it (around LR 4). Exporting is much more advanced in Capture One. You can kick off several output options at once, specify output folders depending on all sorts of image properties, etc. I don't know any tool other than LR that does publishing (in the sense of posting to Flickr, Facebook, etc.). I found it neat while I used LR, but I did not use it much at all. Placing/Seeing images on a map can be useful for some, but isn't critical for most. LR's book module was also rather limited when I last saw it. There was only one printer one had to use and the templates were fixed. Not bad for a quick book project, but not useful when you need something that does not fit the mould set by LR.

Once you get beyond a few thousand images, decent cataloguing is not nice-to-have, it's absolutely essential. No amount of good folder naming will let you find pictures involving a particular friend's cat or everything where the model is wearing a hat and something red, let alone something as simple as images with a certain lens. There is nothing around (that I know of) that can do this and then reasonably seamlessly enter a capable RAW development tool from the catalogue.

Have you looked at Capture One recently?

I realise that this DAM aspect was underdeveloped in Capture One not so long ago, but at least since version 9, it offers more than I personally need. There are hierarchical keywords, for instance.

[rawr]

I realise that this DAM aspect was underdeveloped in Capture One not so long ago, but at least since version 9, it offers more than I personally need. There are hierarchical keywords, for instance.

Phase One also offer Media Pro, if you really need a DAM to work alongside C1 (or anything else):
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Software/Media-Pro/Features.aspx