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10-18-2017, 01:12 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
One can configure so that the Adobe XMP is stored in the RAW, but that still is of extremely limited value unless interpreted by an Adobe product. As for keywords...I believe those are retained in exported images...at least they are in the JPEGs I upload to Flickr.
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Yep that was my question I guess, if the xmp data could be used for something like Capture1. Ugh all those files, I have lots of experiments on duplicated images.

My organization was entirely based on using keywords to create smart collections, so I guess I would need to keyword all the files I import into another catalog program. Well off to see what other options there are.

Edit: so looking into other programs - digikam pulls in keywords - for jpg only of course, however it's a nice start to have keywords already. Capture one will pull in Lightroom collections, but not smart collections. I convert all my smart collections to collections and then just pull in the lightroom database. So switching doesn't look too daunting when I decide to do it.


Last edited by Murfy; 10-19-2017 at 03:37 PM.
10-18-2017, 01:15 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
How is the support for Pentax cameras and lenses ? On paper, Aftershot looks quite interesting. And cheap too!
It's good. I haven't done a comparison between the complete list of lenses between Aftershot and Lightroom, but all the major Pentax lenses and plenty of well-known third party models are there

EDIT: Manual lens adjustment is decent too, and you can create your own profiles

I'll say again, though, it's not as good as Lightroom - in lots of ways, frankly, but several of them are only minor. It's getting to be pretty good, and the user interface is quite polished. Performance is decent too. Worth the money, IMHO - especially when the inevitable discount deals crop up, which they seem to fairly frequently (that's how I bought my copy, along with PSP).

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-18-2017 at 02:20 PM.
10-18-2017, 01:33 PM   #33
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What exactly does 'camera support' mean? If a camera isn't 'supported' and I use DNG could LR still process them?

by the time I buy a new camera a year or more after its release LR has always been updated months before so it's never occurred to me to ask
10-18-2017, 01:38 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
What exactly does 'camera support' mean? If a camera isn't 'supported' and I use DNG could LR still process them?

by the time I buy a new camera a year or more after its release LR has always been updated months before so it's never occurred to me to ask
I think there are two things here. Lens profiles and camera profiles.

I was using Lightroom 5 when the K-1 was released (I think). It did not contain any K-1 profiles for awhile after its release, nor did it have lens profiles for the DFA 24-70 or 15-30. If you shot DNG files (not PEF) you could still open the images in Lightroom, they just didn't necessarily have the auto adjustments or profiles applied. I bought Hue Light color profiles for the camera and it worked fine. I think I could have imported the lens profiles from elsewhere and continued to use Lightroom 5 long term.

The same will probably be true for Lightroom 6. I think there are folks still using older generations of Lightroom than that. They just have to shoot DNG and either buy or create their own profiles for newer cameras.

10-18-2017, 01:56 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I don't think they are going to discontinue the classic/PC version. While the subscription model makes perfect sense, it also makes sense for desktop software to not force you to use cloud storage, due to file size, connectivity, etc.
I just got off the line with them and this is exactly what they are doing, IE forcing everyone to a subscription no matter what. If you want to use the stand alone version fine, but you still pay $10 a month.
10-18-2017, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No, Adobe, most of us do not have fiber.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I live in a very rural area where my upload and download speed are both pretty low
Me too. No fiber, no cable, not even DSL here. Adobe's executives and developers (alongside most 'cloud' advocates generally) seem to live in a different world.
10-18-2017, 02:08 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Adobe announced their new version. As many anticipated, standalone LR is discontinued. It is only available by subscription not a permanent license.

There's a surprise fork in what used to be Lightroom CC; it's now 2 competing products. "CC" is a brand new piece of software focused more on mobile users; everything is automatically synced to Adobe servers. The current Lightroom CC was rebranded "Classic" and continues to use a local catalog.

What follows is my opinion:
  1. The new "CC" has been released prematurely. Many features from "Classic" are not in "CC" yet, such as printing, export to Flickr, HDR, panorama.
  2. Calling a product "Classic" suggests it's bound to be discontinued in the foreseeable future. I think Adobe is having trouble managing legacy source code and wants to start over from scratch.
  3. Classic+Photoshop at $10/month is still a good deal for me. If they force us to the new CC, though, online storage will more than double my costs and justify changing to a competitor. Time will tell.
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I'm running Lightroom CC. I'd like to report that printing, export to Flickr and Facebook, HDR and Panorama all works.
10-18-2017, 02:19 PM - 2 Likes   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
I will never use anything that requires a subscription. And I sure as hell will never use anything with a "cloud"
Almost all my work related software is subscription based now. Autodesk, Adobe, Microsoft Office, Xero, etc. Xero is completely cloud based.
At first this annoyed me. Now I find it really productive as I can use any computer, almost anywhere with a decent internet connection to access my data or do (some of) my work.

All my data is now stored locally and "in the cloud". Daily data backups have become a thing of the past.

10-18-2017, 02:36 PM - 5 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by RollsUp Quote
[snip]

"The majority of Lightroom users have moved over to subscription and it’s reached a point that the additional testing needed for perpetual licenses is no longer economically viable. "
After spending over 30 years in a career doing IT, when I see lines like this, I just want to hurl. Saying they can't support the cost of testing because of license models is a load. Whether or not the software talks back to the license server run by the mothership in the cloud or goes and pulls it out of a registry entry in the local OS etc., it really isn't going to have much to do with the compatibility and stability of the binaries they must still be running locally and must still be tested. Unless they think you're doing it all in a browser, and Adobe is supplying all the horsepower to do all the image processing for all their customers, you're still going to be running the program off the local computer. Beyond Adobe's perceived stream of future monies, how they meter out the license is a trivial component of the software. This is about maximizing profit, a subscription model, and making it really hard to move your data to a competitor's product. I won't be feeding this beast.
10-18-2017, 02:53 PM - 3 Likes   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Murfy Quote
Yep that was my question I guess, if the xmp data could be used for something like Capture1. Ugh all those files, I have lots of experiments on duplicated images.

My organization was entirely based on using keywords to create smart collections, so I guess I would need to keyword all the files I import into another catalog program. Well off to see what other options there are.

Just looked up Capture 1 which I looked at a few years ago, the price seems to have dropped by $100+ or so. $119 seems very reasonable, what stopped me before was a price tag of over $300 at the time.
I have been using On1 software for several years, and with it's last full release, On1 Photo RAW 2017 it finally became a mature program worth considering. At the end of October they will be releasing a 2018 version that will add some additional auto functions like panorama and HDR as well as the usual updates to other features alreay incorporated. It is a very powerful program that's been a plug-in for LR/PS for years, but as an LR6 and Photoshop CS6 owner I can say I've been able to do 99% of my PP in Photo RAW and only occasionally use Photoshop. I abandoned Lightroom in February and don't miss it at all.

On1 states openly that the feedback from it's users drives their software development and one aspect that has been of interest to many is how to transfer images including those with modifications from Lightroom. I recommend you have a read of this blog article from an On1 manager: 3 Steps for Moving from Lightroom to ON1 Photo RAW – ON1, Inc. It details how to transfer from Lightroom to On1 and clearly identifies what can and cannot be transferred in that process. On1 uses a browse module that integrates nicely with LR catalogue folders and should allow you to continue to upload and store images similarly to what you've done with Lightroom.

You can also check out the ideas submitted by users here: Ideas – ON1, Inc. and I encourage you to track down the recommendation for Pentax Pixel Shift and add your voice to those already there ( type pixel shift in the search tab).

Maybe this isn't the solution for you but as it's something you buy without a subscription, updates camera and lens profiles and is getting better every year it's definitely worth adding to your review list for an alternative to Lightroom. FYI, the reason I ended up using On1 was due to their purchase of Genuine Fractals that permits enlarging of files without loss of resolution. This is included in the Photo RAW program.

I would like to point out that whilst you own the program in perpetuity, they have been doing program updates every year. The cost is usually between $99-$119 for the full program and about $80 for an upgrade from the previous version. So whilst it's not subscription based, if you want to access the latest and greatest you might be updating every year or two so that cost can seem similar to a subscription. Of course you don't need these upgrades as the program will continue to work without further cost to you if that's your preference.

Anyhoo if that blog post piques your interest I'd suggest you check out the videos at the On1 website/Youtube as they show you the program functionality on offer.

Good luck mate.

Tas
10-18-2017, 02:57 PM - 2 Likes   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Almost all my work related software is subscription based now. Autodesk, Adobe, Microsoft Office, Xero, etc. Xero is completely cloud based.
At first this annoyed me. Now I find it really productive as I can use any computer, almost anywhere with a decent internet connection to access my data or do (some of) my work.

All my data is now stored locally and "in the cloud". Daily data backups have become a thing of the past.
That's great, Mark, and I'm sure you're not alone in liking that model (it clearly has some big advantages )... but what happens when, due to some unforeseen circumstance, you find you're unable to afford or justify that subscription any longer? You can download or sync your files to one of your devices, sure, but you lose all the functionality.

Personally, I like to pay for things up-front and know that I've nothing more to pay. I don't like renting things, I don't like buying on credit (if I use my credit cards, 99% of the time I pay them off in full at the next statement), and I hate subscriptions. Obviously there are some (more-or-less) unavoidable exceptions... my home utilities (gas and electricity), telephone and broadband, my annual property taxes and TV license, my groceries etc... but beyond that, I try at all costs to avoid on-going payments. Maybe I'm weird in this respect, but I get a degree of comfort from knowing that my stuff is paid for, so I can get on with enjoying or using it without the spectre of further payment...
10-18-2017, 03:07 PM   #42
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i have recently subscribed to Lightroom+ Photoshop for £10 per month. Previously i was using Elements for cataloging and some editing, and Silkypix DSP for my raw converter.

The reason for signing up was to get the full version of photoshop. I intend to continue to use Silkypix as my raw converter and use Photoshop for any detailed further editing. All saves from photoshop are directly to my files on my computer.

Is £10 pm a bit steep? probably, but I can review it in a years time and nothing lost. I actually like the Lightroom interface and if I ever decide to not continue the subscription will still be able to use it to catalogue, just not edit from within it (or photoshop)
10-18-2017, 03:09 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I don't think they are going to discontinue the classic/PC version. While the subscription model makes perfect sense, it also makes sense for desktop software to not force you to use cloud storage, due to file size, connectivity, etc.
Yeah, no way they drop the PC version. Lightroom isn't aimed at phone users; the beauty apps are. If Adobe drops desktop support and tries to go tablet only, all the pro and semi-pro photographers (probably 80% of their base) will immediately migrate to another product.

And no way they require online storage. That immediately eliminates all traveling photographers (including some wedding photographers) from their product since hotel and public WiFi is spotty. And with RAWs pushing 70-100MB each as the MP climb, it's just not feasible on many levels.
10-18-2017, 03:29 PM - 3 Likes   #44
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I find it interesting that $10 a month is too much in this hobby. Processing film was far more expensive especially on a per image basis. Let the flames rain down. Sigh.
10-18-2017, 03:36 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I find it interesting that $10 a month is too much in this hobby. Processing film was far more expensive especially on a per image basis. Let the flames rain down. Sigh.
I can't speak for others, Brad, but it's not the amount per month that bothers me... it's the fact that I have to pay a monthly subscription to use the software, and lose that right unless I commit to on-going and reviewable monthly payments.

I bought my camera outright and I own it to use for as long as it lasts. That's how I like it. If Ricoh said I couldn't buy but could only rent it, I'd pick another manufacturer's camera instead. I'm the same with my lenses, my memory cards, and I'd like to be the same with my image processing software too. With Adobe, it looks like I'm out of luck now (with future versions, at least).

Your analogy of film processing costs is a good one - but then, we're not in the film age any more (and I'd probably take, and certainly develop, fewer photos if that were the case). Does Adobe allow you to stop and start subscription on a month-to-month basis whilst maintaining access to your files? That would be somewhat more akin to film photography... i.e. you pay for what you use... Anyway, it's still not really what I personally want from my software

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-18-2017 at 04:17 PM.
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