[BrianR]

I understand that too, but even the process of downloading Lightroom will take a couple of hours. I'd far rather have a disk to install it with.

Adobe has hated people with poor internet connections for years. In older versions of LR for Windows, they'd make you download a zip file containing BOTH the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions. They made you download both so it would take twice as long (I can see no other explanation). No big deal if it was 2 times 5-minutes, but for us fun-loving rural folk it was 2 times a few hours.

My chicken little paranoia has activated with the fear that they are eventually moving to a cloud based only model to finish kicking rural and other shoddy-internet users in the tender-bits. Maybe not today, maybe not in the foreseeable future, but I could see it happening.

On the bright side, it looks like Capture One has worked to ease the transition from LR to their software, and it also looks like Darktable is in the early stages of a windows version, so it's not like we're bound to Adobe if they end up in a place I'm unwilling to accept.

[Tas]

Thanks for your review of ON1... I've been intrigued by it for quite a while, and with the new developments from Adobe, I'm now considering switch. Question for you as an experienced user; are the updates typically vital and worth the upgrade price? For LR, I usually updated every-other version until it went to subscription, for example.

G'Day Jason,

To answer your question about whether the updates are worth it I'll give you some background. I was using Lightroom from v2 to v6. I picked up On1 PPG 6 approx 5 years ago to be able to access one component for enlarging. The program had more than the enlarging module and as each year or so there was an update I updated it as well as my version of Lightroom. The On1 program was a handy plug-in but to be honest that was it's real forte back then jumping in and out from LR or PS. However, the final evolution of the On1 program before Photo RAW 2017 was a huge improvement over the earlier versions and could easily operate as a stand alone product. This meant that my workflow for 2016 started in Lightroom, jumped to On1 as a PSD then returned to Lightroom to finish and export.

In it's current form, Photo RAW 2017 On1 have created an alternative to Lightroom, better in several ways, yet lacking some features from Lightroom. But with the 2018 version there's not really a gap in capability, just a different approach. On1 will be adding auto elements I've been missing like panorama stitching so I'm glad they're adding this type of tool as it was one of the few LR advantages.

To leave it there though is not telling the whole story about the On1 program. Unlike Lightroom, On1 has the ability to work with layers and the masking tools are streets ahead of anything in Lightroom, especially with the additions in the new version releasing at the end of October. In many ways the program is now really slotting into a capability between Lightroom and Photoshop.

Looking at where On1 has come from and is now, it's a program that has really only matured in the last couple of years, so to say that an update is not worth it on recent experience I would have to say no because of the steep development path they've taken. However, that's history and the 2018 version is coming from a fully developed 2017 program and it might be a case of not needing to update to their 2019 release allowing you to adopt a similar approach to how you updated Lightroom.

I suggest you let them roll out their 2018 version then take up the 30 day free trial offer and test the water that way. If you do go with the trial I recommend focusing on the masking tools in Develop and FX as the new control options look really good.

Tas

[MikeW]

I would suggest that some of the response to Adobe's actions can be characterized as "psychological reactance." (Certainly mine is.)

Reactance occurs when a person feels that someone or something is taking away their choices or limiting the range of alternatives. - Wikipedia

Thus, when Adobe says that a valued former freedom, e.g., owning one's own software and avoiding recurring charges, is no longer an option one may experience reactance. If you are old enough (as I am) recall that when 2 Live Crew's albums were banned, sales soared. When the Coca-cola company removed "old coke" and substituted "new coke" soda drinkers rebelled. The magnitude of reactance increases in proportion to the importance to the freedom lost. Reactance is believed to engender a motivation to restore the freedom (e.g., write to Adobe) or, barring that, seek alternatives.

This is a good summary, also from Wikipedia:

A short explanation of the concept is that the level of reactance has a direct relationship between the importance of a freedom which is eliminated or threatened, and a proportion of free behaviors eliminated or threatened.

My response? I don't like it either. I'll probably be switching to Affinity Photo or another program for photoshop-like editing. If another company's software can read my photos' keywords and so forth from Lightroom, I'll switch in a minute for digital asset management.

Full disclosure: I am a retired (recovering?) professor of social psychology.

[Murfy]

On the bright side, it looks like Capture One has worked to ease the transition from LR to their software, and it also looks like Darktable is in the early stages of a windows version, so it's not like we're bound to Adobe if they end up in a place I'm unwilling to accept.

I downloaded a trial to Capture One and it looks like many updates have been made (or maybe I didn't notice before) You can upload a Lightroom catalog and it will retain the collections, which was my biggest concern when switching software.

I also just read Luminar will be getting an asset manager as part of its update next year, at a final price of under $70.

[MikeW]

I downloaded a trial to Capture One and it looks like many updates have been made (or maybe I didn't notice before) You can upload a Lightroom catalog and it will retain the collections, which was my biggest concern when switching software.

I also just read Luminar will be getting an asset manager as part of its update next year, at a final price of under $70.

Cool! Thanks for the information.

[Murfy]

I have been using On1 software for several years, and with it's last full release, On1 Photo RAW 2017 it finally became a mature program worth considering. At the end of October they will be releasing a 2018 version that will add some additional auto functions like panorama and HDR as well as the usual updates to other features alreay incorporated. It is a very powerful program that's been a plug-in for LR/PS for years, but as an LR6 and Photoshop CS6 owner I can say I've been able to do 99% of my PP in Photo RAW and only occasionally use Photoshop. I abandoned Lightroom in February and don't miss it at all.

On1 states openly that the feedback from it's users drives their software development and one aspect that has been of interest to many is how to transfer images including those with modifications from Lightroom. I recommend you have a read of this blog article from an On1 manager: 3 Steps for Moving from Lightroom to ON1 Photo RAW – ON1, Inc. It details how to transfer from Lightroom to On1 and clearly identifies what can and cannot be transferred in that process. On1 uses a browse module that integrates nicely with LR catalogue folders and should allow you to continue to upload and store images similarly to what you've done with Lightroom.

You can also check out the ideas submitted by users here: Ideas – ON1, Inc. and I encourage you to track down the recommendation for Pentax Pixel Shift and add your voice to those already there ( type pixel shift in the search tab).

Maybe this isn't the solution for you but as it's something you buy without a subscription, updates camera and lens profiles and is getting better every year it's definitely worth adding to your review list for an alternative to Lightroom. FYI, the reason I ended up using On1 was due to their purchase of Genuine Fractals that permits enlarging of files without loss of resolution. This is included in the Photo RAW program.

I would like to point out that whilst you own the program in perpetuity, they have been doing program updates every year. The cost is usually between $99-$119 for the full program and about $80 for an upgrade from the previous version. So whilst it's not subscription based, if you want to access the latest and greatest you might be updating every year or two so that cost can seem similar to a subscription. Of course you don't need these upgrades as the program will continue to work without further cost to you if that's your preference.

Anyhoo if that blog post piques your interest I'd suggest you check out the videos at the On1 website/Youtube as they show you the program functionality on offer.

Good luck mate.

Tas

I just saw this, thanks. I figured out the importing on my own and was very impressed it could pull in the Lightroom database with collections, I don't believe that was an option before

I may have the pricing wrong (and I edited my earlier post to remove it), as I saw $119 but then later saw a $229 price, so now I am confused as to where I saw the $119 price.

I also see Luminar is getting into DAM with a 2018 release, though I wasn't too found of it when I got a trial version last year.

I have been playing with Capture one trials for a while now, this is just going to give me the push to actually buy the software. I actually set up a preset to change my images in Lightroom to look like capture one when imported, and did go through a few tutorials, just never pulled the trigger on the purchase.

[Tas]

I just saw this, thanks. I figured out the importing on my own and was very impressed it could pull in the Lightroom database with collections, I don't believe that was an option before

I may have the pricing wrong (and I edited my earlier post to remove it), as I saw $119 but then later saw a $229 price, so now I am confused as to where I saw the $119 price.

I also see Luminar is getting into DAM with a 2018 release, though I wasn't too found of it when I got a trial version last year.

I have been playing with Capture one trials for a while now, this is just going to give me the push to actually buy the software. I actually set up a preset to change my images in Lightroom to look like capture one when imported, and did go through a few tutorials, just never pulled the trigger on the purchase.

No worries mate, good to hear you're taking the trial options to see what works for you.

I thought you'd be interested in the following On1 blog post from today on the Lightroom topic: What Just Happened to Lightroom? – ON1, Inc. and if you follow this link: ON1 Photo RAW – ON1, Inc. you will find the $119 pricing at the bottom of the page.

Hope you find something that fits your workflow.

Tas

[clickclick]

Just thinking of other options out there, is anyone using Topaz Studio or any of their other products?

[Winder]

Capture One Pro 10 Imaging Software | Phase One

Capture One is a great alternative to LR.

[stevebrot]

I figured out the importing on my own and was very impressed it could pull in the Lightroom database with collections

Now if there was a product capable of applying the Adobe XMP, there would be few reasons to stay with LR.


Steve

[Rico]

Someone mentioned the Adobe pricing bundle of Lightroom and Photoshop which is something like $120US for the yearly subscription. Is the Photoshop a full version or an Elements light version of Photoshop? If it is a full version of Photoshop the pricing doesn't make any sense as Adobe wants $240US yearly fee for Photoshop as a stand alone app.

What is the catch? To use the Photoshop in the bundle you must use Lightroom or something. I don't need Lightroom at all. Or any other organizer type software. If you pay for the bundle can you just install Photoshop. I also have no need for "cloud" storage or services. People are making it sound like the only way to use Lightroom CC is everything is uploaded to the cloud instead of on your own storage. Adobe can not be making it that insane.

[lsimpkins]

Someone mentioned the Adobe pricing bundle of Lightroom and Photoshop which is something like $120US for the yearly subscription. Is the Photoshop a full version or an Elements light version of Photoshop? If it is a full version of Photoshop the pricing doesn't make any sense as Adobe wants $240US yearly fee for Photoshop as a stand alone app.

It is the full version of Photoshop, NOT Elements. It also includes some cloud storage. Adobe offers all of their apps at the $240/yr each price, including Photoshop. See snip from their website. That's why the Photography Plan is such a good deal.

What is the catch? To use the Photoshop in the bundle you must use Lightroom or something. I don't need Lightroom at all. Or any other organizer type software. If you pay for the bundle can you just install Photoshop.

You can install LR or Photoshop or both. No limitation. I have both on my desktop, but only LR installed on my laptop.

I also have no need for "cloud" storage or services. People are making it sound like the only way to use Lightroom CC is everything is uploaded to the cloud instead of on your own storage. Adobe can not be making it that insane.

I don't use the cloud storage that I am entitled to through the Photography Plan.

Perhaps you missed that there are now actually two versions of LR. The first is now called Lightroom Classic CC and is basically the same as it was last week, but with a couple of nice enhancements. It is intended for photographers that use a hard drive computer-centric workflow. Again, no one forces you to use the cloud storage that comes with the plan and the software is downloaded to and runs on your computer.

On the other hand, the new version of LR, Lightroom CC (confused yet?) is intended for the very large market of phone and tablet shooters who want to have access to their photos from all their devices. It is very much cloud-centric and is intended to offer these potential customers a much more robust mobile application than those that are currently available. At first release, LR CC does not have all the functionality of LR Classic CC. I believe that Curves and some other editing functions are not (yet) included.

[travelswsage]

Anyone use both the standalone and subscription model? If I kept 2 catalogs -- one for standalone and one for CC and wanted to sync my edits from the CC catalog back to the standalone catalog -- is it possible? Will the edits from the LR classic catalog show up in the LR standalone catalog and will LR 6 be able to read them?


Actually, even simpler -- can LR 6 open a catalog from LR classic and have all of the edits made in LR Classic visible?

[Murfy]

Now if there was a product capable of applying the Adobe XMP, there would be few reasons to stay with LR.


Steve

I was surprised, Capture One does keep crop and rotation, white balance, saturation and metadata and a few more things. There some edits that did not come over, but the majority of my work came over with the same edits.

[Rico]

It is the full version of Photoshop, NOT Elements. It also includes some cloud storage. Adobe offers all of their apps at the $240/yr each price, including Photoshop. See snip from their website. That's why the Photography Plan is such a good deal.

You can install LR or Photoshop or both. No limitation. I have both on my desktop, but only LR installed on my laptop.

I don't use the cloud storage that I am entitled to through the Photography Plan.

Perhaps you missed that there are now actually two versions of LR. The first is now called Lightroom Classic CC and is basically the same as it was last week, but with a couple of nice enhancements. It is intended for photographers that use a hard drive computer-centric workflow. Again, no one forces you to use the cloud storage that comes with the plan and the software is downloaded to and runs on your computer.

On the other hand, the new version of LR, Lightroom CC (confused yet?) is intended for the very large market of phone and tablet shooters who want to have access to their photos from all their devices. It is very much cloud-centric and is intended to offer these potential customers a much more robust mobile application than those that are currently available. At first release, LR CC does not have all the functionality of LR Classic CC. I believe that Curves and some other editing functions are not (yet) included.

Thanks Isimpkins. This clears things up for me. I thought that's what it all meant.

Basically all I need is ACR. I prefer using ACR through Photoshop. It seems rather ridiculous Adobe even having the stand alone pricing for Photoshop when they are offering it at half the price in the Photography bundle.

I file manage through Adobe Bridge. Adobe allows the use of Bridge CC for free.