I might change my Avatar name to Ernest Hemmingway...
Originally posted by Paul the Sunman ON1 can be used as a stand-alone utility, in which case it develops RAW files itself. However, as far as I can see, if used as a plug-in from LR, that option is not allowed. It begins with the LR-developed file. Is that right? Are there advantages or disadvantages to that?
When you use On1 as a Plug-In the file is technically an LR file that is processed up to the point you choose to go to a plug-in like On1. Despite doing work in On1 it remains an LR file so when you finish in On1 you hit the button, the On1 updates are added to the file, and your image re-opens in LR.
What happens is LR creates a file, I had LR set to create a PSD as it could then be sent back to LR and worked on in PS with the On1 updates on a layer. As your file started in LR it ends up back in LR after the updates are made as this is where you manage the file from (if you use On1 as a PS plug-in the same rules apply, PS creates a file it opens in On1 and after the On1 PP it re-opens in PS).
Because the file is being managed in LR there’s no need to go via On1 Browse, it would seem to me to be a redundant step to add. However having said this when you’re in LR have a look at the options available for using plug-ins. I usually just right clicked my mouse and selected the On1 module I wanted to use (these changed over the years but the individual modules were listed separately as opposed to ‘On1’ being accesses generically as a plug-in).
However, some of the On1 tutorials did not recommend going to On1 by right clicking as this only gave you access to the one module. Therefore if you went from LR, right click to process in On1 Develop, you couldn’t go to On1 Effects from within On1. You had to finalise work in On1 Develop, go back to LR and repeat the process to enter the new On1 module.
If however you went via the main drop down menus; File/Plug-In Extras you can select the On1 module you want to use and can transfer between them whilst there before returning your image to LR.
The main disadvantage of using On1 or indeed any other plug in from LR is you no longer work in RAW. LR creates a file after you’ve done your initial PP and this can no longer be changed from that point. Other than that plug-ins allow LR to be more than it can be on its Pat Malone.
Originally posted by derelict How does On1 handle cloning/ healing out things in a shot (like powerlines, for example)?
PhotoRAW has three cloning tools. These are the Perfect Eraser (a content aware tool), the Retouch Brush and a Clone Stamp Tool. Something like power lines would be no challenge to these tools, but more complex cloning might cause them to trip up. This is where you might use them in combination.
The recommendations out of On1 seems to be:
· Use the Perfect Eraser to do the ‘heavy lifting’ when cloning. This will get you close to what you want and the final cloning can be achieved using the Retouch brush and Clone Stamp tools.
· The Retouch Brush is the quickest tool to use for the simple jobs like dust spots. In portrait work it can be used to remove blemishes and reduce noticeable variations in skin tone like heavy bags under the eyes.
· The Clone Stamp tool works exactly the same as the tool in Photoshop. The importance in using this tool is to be aware of tonal/colour variations in the area sampled compared to the area to be cloned. So nothing different there then.
The On1 cloning tools are available in the three primary modules used for PP, these being Develop, Effects and Layers. They have improved markedly in the 2017 and 2018 versions, however the early release of Photo RAW 2017 could hang if you did extensive cloning. This problem seems to have been resolved, however I feel the Adobe Photoshop cloning tools are still the benchmark with the On1 tools improving and narrowing the gap considerably.
Originally posted by subsea Just a note regarding the crashing issue: as I commented earlier in the thread, my crashing issue seems to be related to the amount of RAM on my Mac. I think it's wise to take ON1's RAM recommendations seriously. LR6 seems to handle low-RAM situations more gracefully, but slowly. That being said, since I upgraded the RAM in my Mac, I haven't had a single crash so, on that score (at least), I'm a happy camper. My biggest complaint right now echoes one of yours: the lack of a history file. However, if you're using layers, you can recover some of the history by converting them to "smart layers" before saving. It's just not as convenient as in LR6.
Compared to you the shortfall in RAM was not an issue for me when I installed Photo RAW 2017 as I had more than the minimum system recommendations. However when accessing Photo RAW 2017 for the first time I could hear the fans going crazy so I opened up the Task Manager (Win7 Pro) to find out what was happening with my machine. What I found was that within a couple of minutes the program had maxed out my RAM and subsequently caused my computer to crash. This was not On1 crashing, it was crashing my entire system.
After seeing this issue repeatedly I decided to max out RAM on my machine (to 32GB as it’s a four year old CPU). Same thing happened still, so I decided to replace my 2GB GPU with a 6GB GPU. Still not working properly so I contacted On1 and they offered to set up a phone meeting to enable them to talk through the problem with me and identify a solution. I didn’t take them up on this offer though I wished I did as maybe I’d understand better what was happening. Here’s an example of what my poor old system had to cope with in the early days of Photo RAW 2017:
In the end there were a couple of updates provided and after the second one the issue stopped being a problem. After it settled down though I noticed it leaning on my CPU, sometimes maxing that out when processing an image. This was especially noticeable with cloning. Again this problem was resolved in a later update however the CPU was still getting some love from time to time in the 2017 program.
FYI, I load via Windows Explorer using an SD card adaptor via USB3 socket. I create a file folder then open On1 to access the images and do the next step which can be naming convention, colour batching, deleting, star rating, keywords etc. Some of these steps are done during LR import so it’s the same end state but a different path to get there. I’m interested in how an upcoming change to add an import button will be and whether it will create a similar import path to LR.
I’ve only ever used the Windows file structure and have not catalogued folders or built any albums so please consider my comments in that context.
I forgot about the History file in LR, I used to use it regularly if I felt I went too far the wrong way, though to be honest I don’t miss it at all now. On1 required me to think differently without having the history to fall back on and I feel their approach gives me more control than what I was getting in LR. That's probably more a faded memory thing but in all honesty give it a little time and if you're like me you won't miss it. To quote Professor Julius Sumner-Miller: Whys is it so?
In On1 if you have a well exposed RAW image it probably only needs some tweaking in Develop to set white/black points, balance the shadows, manage highlights and white balance then finish off with some sharpening before exporting. This module is designed to set the photo up and each tool with the exception of tone and colour can be toggled on and off to review what is happening.
Of course some images may need more work or there’s some haze you want to fix or get the colours more punchy or desaturated. You can do some of this in Develop and some you can do over in Effects. And even an image that needs more work probably won’t need to go any further than Effects before exporting. I do 95% of my PP in these two modules, and the work is all done on the RAW file.
Now unlike LR’s history file you can’t just go back a couple of steps, but you can toggle tools/filters on and off to see the before after. If you're unhappy with the after image instead of stepping back down a linear history you adjust the various tool settings you’ve applied to get the image back to where you’re satisfied. For example, if you’ve set the white balance in Develop then added the Sunshine filter in Effects you may end up blowing out the whites. No biggie as there’s several ways to fix this in either Develop by resetting the white point, or in Effects by clicking the Gear and protecting the highlights or only adding to say the midtones or using the masking tools to again protect the highlights.
Still not happy? You can also reduce the filter strength and the opacity separately or completely reset a filter or even delete each filter separately. I see this approach as more flexible than a linear history file but then I’ve been using it for longer and gotten used to it.
And if this sounds slower I wonder if it’s slower than completing several PP steps then going back down your history and wiping that work out completely? The On1 mantra you’ll hear regularly in their videos is when you apply an adjustment in Develop or a filter in Effects use the sliders at each extreme before settling on what you think looks correct visually. Everything you’re doing is non-destructive and can be undone in Develop and Effects. As nothing is locked in you have complete control on changing anything you want.
Would a history file make it better? It would likely make the LR people happier though I don’t think I’d ever use it as I have more experience working in the On1 workflow now so it seems redundant (horses for courses, YMMV and all that stuff).
So far as Layers goes, this is no different than going from LR to PS as you’re no longer working in RAW. Both LR and On1 create a PSD file (I think this can be changed to a TIFF if you want) to work in layers. And provide a file that can be reworked later though as you state the Smart Layers in On1 is the way to redo work so changes are not baked into the file.
Hopefully the above info based on my experiences will be of use.
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John,
sorry for the multiple novels, happy to sod off if you agree with what me mum tells me to do.
Tas