Lens Model Metadata - where is it saved?

victormeldrew · 01-15-2018, 08:08 PM

I have used Lightroom for a few years. It always correctly identifies the lens model (along with the camera model and all other parameters). So I've never really thought about this question before.

I'm trying On1 Photo Raw 2018 to see if I can replace LR. But for every raw image I have, the Lens field in On1 is blank. This happens with all my lenses. It identifies the camera, focal length, aperture, etc but not the lens model, so I have to manually select it to use corrections.

I thought it ought to be in the file metadata...so I thought I'd check it myself in Windows (properties>details tab) and sure enough, no lens maker/model, just blank fields. Obviously the data must exist somewhere, since LR is getting it from somewhere...anybody know where?

Adam · 01-15-2018, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by victormeldrew

I have used Lightroom for a few years. It always correctly identifies the lens model (along with the camera model and all other parameters). So I've never really thought about this question before.

I'm trying On1 Photo Raw 2018 to see if I can replace LR. But for every raw image I have, the Lens field in On1 is blank. This happens with all my lenses. It identifies the camera, focal length, aperture, etc but not the lens model, so I have to manually select it to use corrections.

I thought it ought to be in the file metadata...so I thought I'd check it myself in Windows (properties>details tab) and sure enough, no lens maker/model, just blank fields. Obviously the data must exist somewhere, since LR is getting it from somewhere...anybody know where?

The data is in Lightroom itself (or whatever program you are using to read the EXIF). In the image itself, all you get is a lens id code which then needs to be looked up by the software.

victormeldrew · 01-15-2018, 08:26 PM

OK, thanks. So it's normal that Windows would show the field empty? I just want to make sure I don't have a problem my end before I raise it with On1's support.

**Tas** · 01-15-2018, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by victormeldrew

I'm trying On1 Photo Raw 2018 to see if I can replace LR. But for every raw image I have, the Lens field in On1 is blank. This happens with all my lenses. It identifies the camera, focal length, aperture, etc but not the lens model, so I have to manually select it to use corrections.

G'day mate,

Something that might help you is to read what lenses are supported in On1, the details are here: Supported Lens Correction Profiles ? ON1 Support There's a lot of Pentax lenses listed, but also a lot that are not supported. As they use an open source database that users can contribute to, 'we' can increase the number of K mount lenses supported which should help address the problem. The info on how to contribute can be found on the page linked above if you're interested.

If the lenses are listed but not auto-filling it would be worth contacting On1 to ask them about it. My Zeiss lenses used to identify as an 'A type' lens but now all I get is the focal length so maybe they've changed something?

Tas

joergens.mi · 01-15-2018, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by victormeldrew

OK, thanks. So it's normal that Windows would show the field empty? I just want to make sure I don't have a problem my end before I raise it with On1's support.

This has nothing to do with windows ore another OS. The Exif and IPTC-Data are part of the file and it is a question of the used SW, wether it get decoded or not.

A very good reference is the exif tool from Phil Harvey which is the de facto standard. If you are missing an information there, you'r cameratyp is new and younger than four weeks or the information ist not provided by the camera

ExifTool by Phil Harvey

With exiftool filename.jpg (pef/dng) you get the full set of information.

stevebrot · 01-15-2018, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by victormeldrew

I thought it ought to be in the file metadata...so I thought I'd check it myself in Windows (properties>details tab) and sure enough, no lens maker/model, just blank fields. Obviously the data must exist somewhere, since LR is getting it from somewhere...anybody know where?

The lens model metadata for Pentax cameras is in the makernotes portion of the EXIF and is in the form of a two-part numeric code. If LR finds the lens code in its look-up tables, it will use that value for display purposes. Otherwise, it will look for a plain text name in the EXIF LensModel tag. The crimp is that LR's look-up table is usually incomplete, even when the software is current and updated.

Moving on to ON1, I decided to pass on migration in part because of the very poor (fairly bizarre to be truthful) lens profile support for Pentax-compatible lenses. I don't know the status of the ability to interpret the lens codes, but if you are having problems, that might be a good indication of deficiencies there too.

Something you might try is to use ExifToolGUI* to interpret the lens codes and write the "friendly names" from ExifTool's lookup table to the EXIF LensModel tag. ExifTool's list for Pentax codes is comprehensive and authoritative. If you are not experienced with ExifTool or ExifToolGUI, PM me and I will give you detailed instructions. (I should really write these up as a sticky or something.)

To view the list of actual codes as stored in Pentax-flavor makernotes and the "friendly names" in ExifTools lookup table as well as duplicate codes that cause a world of pain:

ExifTool: Pentax LensType Mappings

Enjoy!

Steve

* ExifTool itself can be scripted to do the same action, though it is not something I have experience with.

victormeldrew · 01-16-2018, 02:47 AM - **1 Like**

OK thanks everyone. It seems to be a problem only with On1 then. I have tried several images that used the 20-40, 18-55, both Tamrons, in all cases On1's lens field shows blank, but LR has no problem automatically identifying it. Rather than go any deeper into it right now, I've sent them an example DNG to investigate.

Even without these issues I'm quite quickly going off On1. While their development module is quite comprehensive (though not nearly as polished as Adobe's), everything that goes around it is clunky and annoying. But I will keep a detailed review of my experience for another post.

**Tas** · 01-16-2018, 03:48 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by victormeldrew

I have tried several images that used the 20-40, 18-55, both Tamrons, in all cases On1's lens field shows blank, but LR has no problem automatically identifying it. Rather than go any deeper into it right now, I've sent them an example DNG to investigate.

Good to hear, can you provide some feedback on what comes out of your query please? I've had good and average experience from contacting them and others have experienced different. Collectively we can let the forum know whether they're good for their word or all talk.

I'm also particularly interested in this as I've started to put together images to add to the database they use (refer to my original post) which is also used by programs like: Darktable, Rawstudio, digiKam, Imagemagick etc You've identified two lenses already on this list that apparently are not loading profiles automatically, yet the Pentax D-FA 150-450 and D-FA* 70-200 lens data are added despite not being on the list:

I'm not sure why that is though I can see that the lens data was added in Photo RAW 2017, yet this was not the case with Photo RAW 2018 as I've used the 70-200 since the update.

I had noticed this but not picked up on it, so thanks for raising this as now I want to ask the same question as you as they say they are listening to their users.

Originally posted by victormeldrew

Even without these issues I'm quite quickly going off On1. While their development module is quite comprehensive (though not nearly as polished as Adobe's), everything that goes around it is clunky and annoying. But I will keep a detailed review of my experience for another post.

Thank you for committing to following up on a statement about the problems you've experienced. As a user/owner of LR2-6 I don't share your opinion, though must accept that your experience is what you've found to be fact and any faults you have found will benefit me and other forum members so I hope you do share with us.

Tas

emalvick · 01-16-2018, 03:14 PM

With regard to On1 support, I am not happy with it. I've had other bugs and problems, and they just give a run around. I've not been able to even look closely enough to see how it is for lens handling.

LR was always hit and miss for me, but I was always able to select a lens and from then on, the correct lens was chosen. Presumably, once I selected the lens, it would then attribute the codes to that lens.

The challenge with the lens codes is that occasionally, multiple lenses will use the same codes. I believe this was especially problematic with Sigma lenses on Pentax bodies. Consequently, LR would not guess but just leave it blank. In other similar cases, I could select the brand, and LR would then know what I was using. I actually thought LR was ok in that regard.

Now, I do find it nice that some of the software can handle lenses fairly automatically, and I have seen that On1 is not good with it. For the past few years I've been using DxO, and their software is fantastic. I've never had an issue with it identifying a lens. It even profiles and corrects pretty good for shots taken with my phone, a fixed lens camera, and even some older P&S digital cameras I had 15 years ago.

I feel like On1 doesn't have their priorities 100% right.

stevebrot · 01-16-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by emalvick

I feel like On1 doesn't have their priorities 100% right.

My take is that they are playing catch-up in an attempt to take advantage of Adobe's poorly-considered exit from the perpetual license space. Whether they can add the required features in a timely manner will be crucial to their bid to be a quality LR equivalent.

Steve

victormeldrew · 01-19-2018, 03:59 PM

Well, I took part in a brief flurry of emails with On1 support, which seemed keen to help with sensible but fruitess questions and suggestions. This continued up until the point I send them the image files to show the problem and they have since gone quiet.

I rather like the software in many ways, not so keen in others, but the minimum I require is for what is sold to me to work and, if not, to receive good support in making it work. I will probably return to try the next version to see if it is any more mature, but until then my search for a replacement for LR will go on.

victormeldrew · 02-03-2018, 06:08 PM

For those who were interested, I posted a review in the database:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/accessoryreviews/Photo-Editing-and-Manipulation-Software-c151.html

The short story: despite these issues (which support promises to fix in the next update) I ended up purchasing On1 and I'm very happy.
The long story can be found in my review.

01-15-2018, 08:08 PM	#1
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	Lens Model Metadata - where is it saved? I have used Lightroom for a few years. It always correctly identifies the lens model (along with the camera model and all other parameters). So I've never really thought about this question before. I'm trying On1 Photo Raw 2018 to see if I can replace LR. But for every raw image I have, the Lens field in On1 is blank. This happens with all my lenses. It identifies the camera, focal length, aperture, etc but not the lens model, so I have to manually select it to use corrections. I thought it ought to be in the file metadata...so I thought I'd check it myself in Windows (properties>details tab) and sure enough, no lens maker/model, just blank fields. Obviously the data must exist somewhere, since LR is getting it from somewhere...anybody know where?

01-15-2018, 08:12 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by victormeldrew I have used Lightroom for a few years. It always correctly identifies the lens model (along with the camera model and all other parameters). So I've never really thought about this question before. I'm trying On1 Photo Raw 2018 to see if I can replace LR. But for every raw image I have, the Lens field in On1 is blank. This happens with all my lenses. It identifies the camera, focal length, aperture, etc but not the lens model, so I have to manually select it to use corrections. I thought it ought to be in the file metadata...so I thought I'd check it myself in Windows (properties>details tab) and sure enough, no lens maker/model, just blank fields. Obviously the data must exist somewhere, since LR is getting it from somewhere...anybody know where? The data is in Lightroom itself (or whatever program you are using to read the EXIF). In the image itself, all you get is a lens id code which then needs to be looked up by the software. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

01-15-2018, 10:28 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by victormeldrew I thought it ought to be in the file metadata...so I thought I'd check it myself in Windows (properties>details tab) and sure enough, no lens maker/model, just blank fields. Obviously the data must exist somewhere, since LR is getting it from somewhere...anybody know where? The lens model metadata for Pentax cameras is in the makernotes portion of the EXIF and is in the form of a two-part numeric code. If LR finds the lens code in its look-up tables, it will use that value for display purposes. Otherwise, it will look for a plain text name in the EXIF LensModel tag. The crimp is that LR's look-up table is usually incomplete, even when the software is current and updated. Moving on to ON1, I decided to pass on migration in part because of the very poor (fairly bizarre to be truthful) lens profile support for Pentax-compatible lenses. I don't know the status of the ability to interpret the lens codes, but if you are having problems, that might be a good indication of deficiencies there too. Something you might try is to use ExifToolGUI* to interpret the lens codes and write the "friendly names" from ExifTool's lookup table to the EXIF LensModel tag. ExifTool's list for Pentax codes is comprehensive and authoritative. If you are not experienced with ExifTool or ExifToolGUI, PM me and I will give you detailed instructions. (I should really write these up as a sticky or something.) To view the list of actual codes as stored in Pentax-flavor makernotes and the "friendly names" in ExifTools lookup table as well as duplicate codes that cause a world of pain: ExifTool: Pentax LensType Mappings Enjoy! Steve * ExifTool itself can be scripted to do the same action, though it is not something I have experience with. Last edited by stevebrot; 01-15-2018 at 10:34 PM.

01-16-2018, 03:48 AM - 1 Like	#8
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	Originally posted by victormeldrew I have tried several images that used the 20-40, 18-55, both Tamrons, in all cases On1's lens field shows blank, but LR has no problem automatically identifying it. Rather than go any deeper into it right now, I've sent them an example DNG to investigate. Good to hear, can you provide some feedback on what comes out of your query please? I've had good and average experience from contacting them and others have experienced different. Collectively we can let the forum know whether they're good for their word or all talk. I'm also particularly interested in this as I've started to put together images to add to the database they use (refer to my original post) which is also used by programs like: Darktable, Rawstudio, digiKam, Imagemagick etc You've identified two lenses already on this list that apparently are not loading profiles automatically, yet the Pentax D-FA 150-450 and D-FA* 70-200 lens data are added despite not being on the list: I'm not sure why that is though I can see that the lens data was added in Photo RAW 2017, yet this was not the case with Photo RAW 2018 as I've used the 70-200 since the update. I had noticed this but not picked up on it, so thanks for raising this as now I want to ask the same question as you as they say they are listening to their users. Originally posted by victormeldrew Even without these issues I'm quite quickly going off On1. While their development module is quite comprehensive (though not nearly as polished as Adobe's), everything that goes around it is clunky and annoying. But I will keep a detailed review of my experience for another post. Thank you for committing to following up on a statement about the problems you've experienced. As a user/owner of LR2-6 I don't share your opinion, though must accept that your experience is what you've found to be fact and any faults you have found will benefit me and other forum members so I hope you do share with us. Tas Last edited by Tas; 01-16-2018 at 05:35 AM. Reason: Added info ref the 70-200

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K-70 Metadata	MacLoz	Pentax K-70 & KF	6	10-14-2017 04:17 AM
Is Image Finishing setting stored in metadata?	bobdobbs	Pentax DSLR Discussion	3	01-16-2017 02:26 AM
Editing Metadata for scanned film	HomeMadeSin	Film Processing, Scanning, and Darkroom	6	07-12-2016 02:41 AM
Lightroom Metadata missing for new lens	gbbrowning	Pentax K-1 & K-1 II	12	05-16-2016 03:32 PM
Focus adjustment reading in metadata?	woodworm	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	03-29-2016 10:48 AM

01-15-2018, 08:26 PM	#3
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493 Original Poster	OK, thanks. So it's normal that Windows would show the field empty? I just want to make sure I don't have a problem my end before I raise it with On1's support.

01-15-2018, 09:23 PM	#4
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	Originally posted by victormeldrew I'm trying On1 Photo Raw 2018 to see if I can replace LR. But for every raw image I have, the Lens field in On1 is blank. This happens with all my lenses. It identifies the camera, focal length, aperture, etc but not the lens model, so I have to manually select it to use corrections. G'day mate, Something that might help you is to read what lenses are supported in On1, the details are here: Supported Lens Correction Profiles ? ON1 Support There's a lot of Pentax lenses listed, but also a lot that are not supported. As they use an open source database that users can contribute to, 'we' can increase the number of K mount lenses supported which should help address the problem. The info on how to contribute can be found on the page linked above if you're interested. If the lenses are listed but not auto-filling it would be worth contacting On1 to ask them about it. My Zeiss lenses used to identify as an 'A type' lens but now all I get is the focal length so maybe they've changed something? Tas

01-15-2018, 10:24 PM	#5
joergens.mi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 408	Originally posted by victormeldrew OK, thanks. So it's normal that Windows would show the field empty? I just want to make sure I don't have a problem my end before I raise it with On1's support. This has nothing to do with windows ore another OS. The Exif and IPTC-Data are part of the file and it is a question of the used SW, wether it get decoded or not. A very good reference is the exif tool from Phil Harvey which is the de facto standard. If you are missing an information there, you'r cameratyp is new and younger than four weeks or the information ist not provided by the camera ExifTool by Phil Harvey With exiftool filename.jpg (pef/dng) you get the full set of information.

01-16-2018, 02:47 AM - 1 Like	#7
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493 Original Poster	OK thanks everyone. It seems to be a problem only with On1 then. I have tried several images that used the 20-40, 18-55, both Tamrons, in all cases On1's lens field shows blank, but LR has no problem automatically identifying it. Rather than go any deeper into it right now, I've sent them an example DNG to investigate. Even without these issues I'm quite quickly going off On1. While their development module is quite comprehensive (though not nearly as polished as Adobe's), everything that goes around it is clunky and annoying. But I will keep a detailed review of my experience for another post.

01-16-2018, 03:14 PM	#9
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	With regard to On1 support, I am not happy with it. I've had other bugs and problems, and they just give a run around. I've not been able to even look closely enough to see how it is for lens handling. LR was always hit and miss for me, but I was always able to select a lens and from then on, the correct lens was chosen. Presumably, once I selected the lens, it would then attribute the codes to that lens. The challenge with the lens codes is that occasionally, multiple lenses will use the same codes. I believe this was especially problematic with Sigma lenses on Pentax bodies. Consequently, LR would not guess but just leave it blank. In other similar cases, I could select the brand, and LR would then know what I was using. I actually thought LR was ok in that regard. Now, I do find it nice that some of the software can handle lenses fairly automatically, and I have seen that On1 is not good with it. For the past few years I've been using DxO, and their software is fantastic. I've never had an issue with it identifying a lens. It even profiles and corrects pretty good for shots taken with my phone, a fixed lens camera, and even some older P&S digital cameras I had 15 years ago. I feel like On1 doesn't have their priorities 100% right.

01-16-2018, 04:00 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by emalvick I feel like On1 doesn't have their priorities 100% right. My take is that they are playing catch-up in an attempt to take advantage of Adobe's poorly-considered exit from the perpetual license space. Whether they can add the required features in a timely manner will be crucial to their bid to be a quality LR equivalent. Steve

01-19-2018, 03:59 PM	#11
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493 Original Poster	Well, I took part in a brief flurry of emails with On1 support, which seemed keen to help with sensible but fruitess questions and suggestions. This continued up until the point I send them the image files to show the problem and they have since gone quiet. I rather like the software in many ways, not so keen in others, but the minimum I require is for what is sold to me to work and, if not, to receive good support in making it work. I will probably return to try the next version to see if it is any more mature, but until then my search for a replacement for LR will go on.

02-03-2018, 06:08 PM	#12
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493 Original Poster	For those who were interested, I posted a review in the database: https://www.pentaxforums.com/accessoryreviews/Photo-Editing-and-Manipulation-Software-c151.html The short story: despite these issues (which support promises to fix in the next update) I ended up purchasing On1 and I'm very happy. The long story can be found in my review.