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06-08-2018, 09:25 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
How did you process the files from the phone?
ACR, but they can be read in RawTherapee and the other open source which I can't remember now.

Those are 100% crops, I'll post full res ASAP (probably not before tomorrow evening though... work calls).

DNGs are ~19 MB, so I think that they are uncompressed (16 MP, but only 10 bit, exif confirms).

FreeDcam allows to save RAW files even if camera2 APIs aren't supported (if you're lucky).
Swipe from left to right to open settings, scroll down to Bayer format, select one (I think it always get the right pattern, even if you make a mistake) paying attention to the fact that it's 10 bit (e.g. Bayer-mipi-10grbg), then back in the main screen press on the jpeg icon (bottom left), and select DNG.

06-08-2018, 09:39 AM   #17
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iPhones need to be 6s or better for DNG support. I just tried a couple and while theyíll load, itís JPG only. So itís 645 PRO and TIFF for me!
06-08-2018, 02:02 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
Are those crops, or the full photo? If they are crops, I'd like to see how the full photo looks, especially in the second case. That photo looks ridiculously bad in the SOOC version.
Ok, you have a point, there's something I missed.

The first picture was shot in full auto (not even focusing - that would have been linked to metering), but apparently the phone decided to expose for the meat on the skewer. I guess I could have underexposed by let's say 0.50 and got a better picture, but that's often difficult to judge on a smartphone screen, esp. in sunlight and without a histogram. With RAW you get some leeway.


The second picture is a puzzle... in spite of it being slightly underexposed, both in absolute terms and related to the DNG file (but not by much), the camera app chose a higher ISO setting (3182 vs 2167).

At this point I'll try and replicate the test in the coming days, setting the FreeDcam on full manual (I think I can): that's the only way to ensure consistency.

Last edited by LensBeginner; 06-08-2018 at 02:13 PM.
06-09-2018, 05:51 AM   #19
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I did further tests during the break at work, and it's a mess.

Using FreeDcam, manually setting ISO3200 and center-weighted average metering, and not refocusing between shots, I get a blown jpeg and an ok RAW.

Since FreeDcam writes gibberish in the shutter time EXIF field, I have no way of confirming if there's an issue with shot parameters, if it's the 2bit advantage giving the RAW the upper hand, or if the camera JPEG is actually trash.

So, for the moment, science goes out of the window... only thing I could think of would be "best effort" with the default camera in JPEG compared to "best effort" with FreeDcam in RAW, but with no hope of consistency and repeatability.

Only thing I know for sure, is that with RAW I'm consistently (ha, ha) getting better results on my phone without any special effort other than selecting DNG in FreeDcam, and doing the PP as I do with my camera. Will keep everyone posted anyway.

06-09-2018, 12:15 PM - 3 Likes   #20
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Hahaha! can't believe it was so simple, I found out what the problem was! Vignette!
The dish image looked overexposed because the camera corrected vignetting in a "dumb" way, probably without checking for overexposure. And the overexposed, washed-out parts were all in the outer part of the image.
Here's proof:

RAW, no corrections:


RAW, manual vignette correction (amount 100, midpoint 0*)


JPEG, straight off camera

This one is processed by the camera, it's obviously more contrasted and saturated, but highlights are blown near the edges.

...for a moment I thought I had made a colossal blunder and jumped to conclusions too fast...
BTW the shutter speed value for this RAW is 8.6185 (?) and focal length is -8.3 (???) instead of 3.57mm. Gibberish, as I said.

* this has been obtained by shooting a white A4 paper sheet in even light and checking values across the frame with the eyedropper tool while correcting vignette.
==========

Edit: this is the jpeg from RAW, processed to taste (and from experience):

Perhaps some things to tweak here and there, a little bit reddish maybe, but worlds better than the SOoC jpeg, in my book.
Notice how, when cropping to 4:3, the black stripe in the bottom of the frame disappears.

Last edited by LensBeginner; 06-09-2018 at 12:40 PM.
06-09-2018, 01:37 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
this is the jpeg from RAW, processed to taste (and from experience)
Your processed RAW looks so much better than the out-of-camera JPEG. It really is chalk and cheese.

I somehow doubt this, but I'm wondering if my Blu Vivo 5R will allow RAW using FreeDCam... I suspect not, but I guess it's worth a try
06-09-2018, 01:45 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Your processed RAW looks so much better than the out-of-camera JPEG. It really is chalk and cheese.

I somehow doubt this, but I'm wondering if my Blu Vivo 5R will allow RAW using FreeDCam... I suspect not, but I guess it's worth a try
Thanks!

Trying costs nothing, FreeDcam is free.
My phone has no official RAW support either... and I don't understand how the app does its magic... I thought RAW support in Android came with camera2 APIs, but appartently the app allowed me to try with the older version of the interface.

Also, to unlock camera2 APIs on the Redmi Note 3 Pro you need to unlock the bootloader, which is something I didn't want to do as long as I had some warranty left. It's 2 years at the end of June.
It's also still with the firmare it came out of the factory with I'm afraid too much of a hassle backing everything up, wiping it, flashing, reinstalling... takes me at least a whole afternoon.
06-09-2018, 02:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Thanks!

Trying costs nothing, FreeDcam is free.
My phone has no official RAW support either... and I don't understand how the app does its magic... I thought RAW support in Android came with camera2 APIs, but appartently the app allowed me to try with the older version of the interface.

Also, to unlock camera2 APIs on the Redmi Note 3 Pro you need to unlock the bootloader, which is something I didn't want to do as long as I had some warranty left. It's 2 years at the end of June.
It's also still with the firmare it came out of the factory with I'm afraid too much of a hassle backing everything up, wiping it, flashing, reinstalling... takes me at least a whole afternoon.
Thanks for the info. I wouldn't be too keen on unlocking the bootloader either, nor messing with firmware... But I'll give the app a try. Don't try, don't get

06-09-2018, 02:28 PM   #24
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FreeDcam works on my Xperia z5 Compact, but can only output JPEGs, and only small (1MB) JPEG's are output too.

And it has crashed unexpectedly a few times, plus the on-screen control icons are tiny and hard to use.

But it certainly does output good sharp JPEG's. Moreover, some of the image problems that I've battled with on my phone since I bought it (blurriness on the right side of the frame on all photos, which I assumed were lens problems) mysteriously disappear when it's FreeDcam taking the shot. So I think it's an app worth keeping around, even though it does seem unstable on my device.
06-09-2018, 02:41 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
FreeDcam works on my Xperia z5 Compact, but can only output JPEGs, and only small (1MB) JPEG's are output too.

And it has crashed unexpectedly a few times, plus the on-screen control icons are tiny and hard to use.
Yeah, it's not very stable on my device either.

- Sometimes it fails to open its companion gallery app to show the photo.
- Sometimes force closes after taking the picture (and it's 50-50 if it saved it or not)
- Once I got an useless 8bit RAW file, which I could open in RawTherapee but not in ACR, since it thought it was 16bit, and there was no way to modify and save the correct information in the EXIF data - but it wasn't worth it anyway, 8bit RAW was unusable and allowed no flexibility in PP.
- Sometimes on my device focus "freezes" in the close range. Switching back and forth between the various modes (infinity, macro, auto etc.) helps sometimes, but occasionally it can only be remedied by restarting the phone ( )

...boy did I fiddle with it!


It's quirky for sure, but well worth it IMHO, at least until your phone supports RAW capture natively.
06-09-2018, 09:08 PM   #26
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I can select Bayer but when I try to "raw to dng" it asks me about the sensor parameters. I'm lost.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added 06-10-18 at 12:12 AM ----------

[/COLOR

Last edited by UncleVanya; 06-09-2018 at 09:14 PM.
06-10-2018, 12:28 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I can select Bayer but when I try to "raw to dng" it asks me about the sensor parameters. I'm lost.
I don't do anything of the sort... I just select one option in the Bayer format dialog (I think mine wants the "bayer-mipi-10gbrg", because no matter what I click, it always stays the same), then close the menu, click on the little panorama icon bottom-right (the one with jpeg written below it), and press DNG from the three buttons that pop up.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
FreeDcam works on my Xperia z5 Compact, but can only output JPEGs, and only small (1MB) JPEG's are output too.
Just select 100% in Jpeg quality in the options, and file size will increase to default camera levels. Quality will as well (with regard to artifacts at least). Kinda pointless if you can't shot RAW, I know...
06-10-2018, 07:01 AM   #28
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Mine has no sub menu. Bayer is there but nothing else related to raw. My guess is they don't have enough info about the sensor to output dng but they see the API to pull the raw data.
07-28-2018, 05:24 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Swipe from left to right to open settings, scroll down to Bayer format, select one (I think it always get the right pattern, even if you make a mistake) paying attention to the fact that it's 10 bit (e.g. Bayer-mipi-10grbg), then back in the main screen press on the jpeg icon (bottom left), and select DNG.
Amazing what this app can do and the improvements you made to your phone's camera performance by making use of it. I have a Huawei with a pretty good camera, but after installing FreeDCam and opening Settings I can't find Bayer format. Any idea how to check if my phone is capable of saving as RAW? It's rooted.
07-28-2018, 07:18 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by rsk Quote
Amazing what this app can do and the improvements you made to your phone's camera performance by making use of it. I have a Huawei with a pretty good camera, but after installing FreeDCam and opening Settings I can't find Bayer format. Any idea how to check if my phone is capable of saving as RAW? It's rooted.
If it isn't showing I think that's the answer. I could get files but did not have a mapping to convert to raw.
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