Uploading RAW images from SD Card to Computer

amoringello · 06-28-2018, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by PDL

The file system used on SD cards is FAT which is prone to fragmentation by its very nature. Deleting images from the SD card has not been recommended as a method since the early days of digital. Even my old Toshiba (2002) digital camera manual suggested that deleting images off of the memory card (not a SD card) would eventually lead to problems. The software provided with the Toshiba camera would copy the images into its file structure, validate that the image was really there, then format the card.

SD cards are essentially hard drives, the file system is common to PC's and is based on Microsoft's FAT file system from back in the MS-DOS days. FAT32 and exFAT are newer variations leading to greater capacity, but they are still FAT systems. While using the SD Associations formatter is a good idea - for troubled cards - the best practice is to copy the images from the SD card (locked if your card reader supports it) and format the cards in camera. This was recommended to me in 2005 by the director of the digital lab at Santa Fe Workshops. I use a PC and they were using, and still are, Mac's.

2002? 2005? We're not in Kansas any more. :-)

No doubt that copying files in the safest way possible is a good idea.
Common sense and good data handling processes are key to ensuring your files are safe. (i.e. look up "3-2-1" backup policy)
*Myths and old wive's tales are not*

FYI, just for the safety conscious, Locking the card I useless, mainly because that is merely an optional software-enabled function of the device in which the card is in seated.
The slider has *no* hardware enforcement of protecting the card from rouge malfunctions (or intentional ones). It *can not* protect the card from being written or modified by any actions not completely under proper and strict control.
It's exactly like the punched holes on old floppy disks. i.e. remove the tape covering the hole and the protection is gone.

If anyone wants a *good* reason for not delete single files from their camera, just think battery life and time involved.
Extra cards are cheap.... Deleting files is expensive -- both with battery life and with the time it takes (i.e. the K1 is horribly SLOW at deleting files), and to delete files from both cards is maddening.

Formatting in camera uses a bit less battery than deleting all files. But still uses up your battery.
Format in the computer before you go out. It's MUCH faster. As a bonus, you even get to name the cards to your liking if that's your thing.

dubyam · 06-28-2018, 05:59 AM

While it may be a decade plus after 2005, we are still using the same file system and the same technology for saving photos. Best practices in file storage maintenance for FAT-based systems hasn't changed in the ensuing years.

**UncleVanya** · 06-28-2018, 06:30 AM - **1 Like**

This article is pretty useful on do's and don'ts of memory cards.

How to Properly Use and Care for Memory Cards - Photography Life

Some may object to the quick format advice I suspect.

photoptimist · 06-28-2018, 06:56 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by amoringello

FYI, just for the safety conscious, Locking the card I useless, mainly because that is merely an optional software-enabled function of the device in which the card is in seated.
The slider has *no* hardware enforcement of protecting the card from rouge malfunctions (or intentional ones). It *can not* protect the card from being written or modified by any actions not completely under proper and strict control.
It's exactly like the punched holes on old floppy disks. i.e. remove the tape covering the hole and the protection is gone.

Although it is true that the SD card lock is a software feature, do you have any evidence that mainstream operating systems ignore the lock? From what I've seen in MacOS, the lock is respected (although I've never snooped the USB traffic to see if the OS does write to a locked card). With the card locked, images cannot be accidentally deleted, the OS does not write all it's crap files to the card, and a locked card never gets the "cannot be ejected because it is in use" error. Perhaps some types of malware worms intentionally ignore the card's lock bit to propagate the infection but I'd bet that the majority of trojans and viruses in the wild do not do this.

I also use the lock as a convenient reminder that the card is being used and has important data. I always lock my full cards when I swap to an empty one and that makes it easy for me to tell which cards are full and which cards have space. With the card locked, I can't accidentally format it until I'm sure I've got a back-up and that's when I unlock the card.

For the vast majority of users, locking the card will reduce the chance of data loss.

amoringello · 06-28-2018, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by photoptimist

Although it is true that the SD card lock is a software feature, do you have any evidence that mainstream operating systems ignore the lock? From what I've seen in MacOS, the lock is respected (although I've never snooped the USB traffic to see if the OS does write to a locked card). With the card locked, images cannot be accidentally deleted, the OS does not write all it's crap files to the card, and a locked card never gets the "cannot be ejected because it is in use" error.

ha! THAT is an interesting case for write-protecting.
Although I've never ran into issues with those extraneous files, it is always tiresome to find those oddball MAC files on there when I go to remove files manually. If you never write to the card from the computer, it would certainly keep things a bit cleaner for the OCD people out there (raises own hand).

Originally posted by photoptimist

Perhaps some types of malware worms intentionally ignore the card's lock bit to propagate the infection but I'd bet that the majority of trojans and viruses in the wild do not do this.
I also use the lock as a convenient reminder that the card is being used and has important data. I always lock my full cards when I swap to an empty one and that makes it easy for me to tell which cards are full and which cards have space. With the card locked, I can't accidentally format it until I'm sure I've got a back-up and that's when I unlock the card.
For the vast majority of users, locking the card will reduce the chance of data loss.

Many of my cards are so heavily used that the lock has broken off. I just epoxy a permanent write tab onto them.

---------- Post added 06-28-18 at 04:47 PM ----------

Originally posted by UncleVanya

This article is pretty useful on do's and don'ts of memory cards.

How to Properly Use and Care for Memory Cards - Photography Life

Some may object to the quick format advice I suspect.

Pretty good article. Most is basic common sense and they do address several mis-beliefs about flash memory/SDCards.

Quick format is definitely the best option unless you have an absolute need to do a full format; like trying to force a remapping of bad blocks.

As they state, attempting to do a full format is bad for the health of flash memory.
To make things worse than they wrote, blocks are dynamically (and somewhat randomly) allocated as needed (this is done by the card itself, not by the OS)... so while your computer may think it is writing blocks sequentially from beginning to end, it may actually be re-writing the same blocks over and over again, forcing them to wear out much faster than one would expect.

So make sure that whatever software you use is fully aware that it is accessing flash memory and behaves appropriately if you feel the absolute need to fully wipe an SD card.
(I honestly do not know if either Mac or Windows handles this correctly or not)

LensBeginner · 06-28-2018, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

This article is pretty useful on do's and don'ts of memory cards.

How to Properly Use and Care for Memory Cards - Photography Life

Some may object to the quick format advice I suspect.

Thanks for the article, looks sensible.

PDL · 06-28-2018, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by amoringello

--snip
FYI, just for the safety conscious, Locking the card I useless, mainly because that is merely an optional software-enabled function of the device in which the card is in seated.
The slider has *no* hardware enforcement of protecting the card from rouge malfunctions (or intentional ones). It *can not* protect the card from being written or modified by any actions not completely under proper and strict control.
It's exactly like the punched holes on old floppy disks. i.e. remove the tape covering the hole and the protection is gone.
--snip

If anyone wants a *good* reason for not delete single files from their camera, just think battery life and time involved.
Extra cards are cheap.... Deleting files is expensive -- both with battery life and with the time it takes (i.e. the K1 is horribly SLOW at deleting files), and to delete files from both cards is maddening.

Formatting in camera uses a bit less battery than deleting all files. But still uses up your battery.
Format in the computer before you go out. It's MUCH faster. As a bonus, you even get to name the cards to your liking if that's your thing.

Please note the comment about the card reader. If your card reader recognizes the lock tab, the card is essentially 'locked". Most of the newer card readers I have seen do not recognize the tab. Test your card reader and act appropriately.

Also, if you are concerned about battery draining activities and you think that formatting your SD cards will drain your camera's battery you have bigger problems than what format you are using. Remember, the FAT file system has been in use since the MS-DOS days (that's the early 80's ya know). On my PC's in the 2000 time frame, NTFS was my file system of choice, so FAT stuff was secondary.

Greg1956 · 06-29-2018, 12:22 AM

Hi, I use cam2pc Freeware Edition - Image Browser as my uploading tool. It will bring across DNG and JPG files, but the inbuilt browser only displays JPGs..
Works via usb port connection by cable, usb stick and usb card reader

BTW I had to install adobe DNG codec to display Raw files in Windows file viewer and Windows explorer.

hope that helps
Greg

**UncleVanya** · 06-29-2018, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Greg1956

Hi, I use cam2pc Freeware Edition - Image Browser as my uploading tool. It will bring across DNG and JPG files, but the inbuilt browser only displays JPGs..
Works via usb port connection by cable, usb stick and usb card reader

BTW I had to install adobe DNG codec to display Raw files in Windows file viewer and Windows explorer.

hope that helps
Greg

Does it have interesting features more than the wizard built in to Windows?

Greg1956 · 06-30-2018, 03:59 AM

Yes more flexibility than windows, But I just use it to auto upload from any camera I attach

leekil · 06-30-2018, 09:14 PM

My practice is to read the photos off the card, and then leave the Pentax photo directory on there. When I need more space on the card, I delete the folder of pictures by selecting it *on the camera* and deleting it that way; this deletes all the pictures in the folder in a pretty quick process. You don't have to worry about anything weird the OS might be doing, like putting photos in the trash instead of really deleting them. I don't believe that deleting files on the computer will mess up the SD card, but if you are concerned about that, deleting them the way I describe will avoid that. I have never had another issues with this method, and I've been doing it for years.

I do it this way because then I have a second backup of the photos on the card for a while (just in case) until I need to use the extra space.

emalvick · 07-02-2018, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by LensBeginner

You can't see the files in Explorer, or can't open them?
If it's the latter, you just need to install PDCU or another RAW viewer/developer.

Have you navigated to the correct folder? The files aren't in the root of the card; they are usually in a folder.

-Erik

---------- Post added 07-02-2018 at 01:40 PM ----------

I would never cut and paste just because you are deleting the photos as you copy them. I usually want to keep the originals on the SD card until I verify the copy has gone over correctly AND I've had a chance to make a back-up. Plus, it is easy to just wipe/format a card in the camera when you've gotten all the photos copied in one operation.

My workflow revolves around having multiple SD cards (in pairs, 3 to 5 pairs in rotation). I usually shoot cards until they are full saving RAW files on both cards in the camera. I periodically download off the cards but otherwise use the cards until they are full. I use Downloader Pro, which knows what images have been previously downloaded. Once the card is full, I pull the cards and store them at the back of my stack and move to the next pair of cards. When I put a new pair in, I wipe the cards in the camera using the format function; I usually format a bit in advance when I know I'm getting to needing new cards. Occasionally, my process and rate of shooting is slow enough that I will have new cards in hand and may never wipe and older set just storing them away. SD cards have gotten quite cheap.

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06-28-2018, 03:43 AM	#31
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Originally posted by PDL The file system used on SD cards is FAT which is prone to fragmentation by its very nature. Deleting images from the SD card has not been recommended as a method since the early days of digital. Even my old Toshiba (2002) digital camera manual suggested that deleting images off of the memory card (not a SD card) would eventually lead to problems. The software provided with the Toshiba camera would copy the images into its file structure, validate that the image was really there, then format the card. SD cards are essentially hard drives, the file system is common to PC's and is based on Microsoft's FAT file system from back in the MS-DOS days. FAT32 and exFAT are newer variations leading to greater capacity, but they are still FAT systems. While using the SD Associations formatter is a good idea - for troubled cards - the best practice is to copy the images from the SD card (locked if your card reader supports it) and format the cards in camera. This was recommended to me in 2005 by the director of the digital lab at Santa Fe Workshops. I use a PC and they were using, and still are, Mac's. 2002? 2005? We're not in Kansas any more. :-) No doubt that copying files in the safest way possible is a good idea. Common sense and good data handling processes are key to ensuring your files are safe. (i.e. look up "3-2-1" backup policy) Myths and old wive's tales are not FYI, just for the safety conscious, Locking the card I useless, mainly because that is merely an optional software-enabled function of the device in which the card is in seated. The slider has no hardware enforcement of protecting the card from rouge malfunctions (or intentional ones). It can not protect the card from being written or modified by any actions not completely under proper and strict control. It's exactly like the punched holes on old floppy disks. i.e. remove the tape covering the hole and the protection is gone. If anyone wants a good reason for not delete single files from their camera, just think battery life and time involved. Extra cards are cheap.... Deleting files is expensive -- both with battery life and with the time it takes (i.e. the K1 is horribly SLOW at deleting files), and to delete files from both cards is maddening. Formatting in camera uses a bit less battery than deleting all files. But still uses up your battery. Format in the computer before you go out. It's MUCH faster. As a bonus, you even get to name the cards to your liking if that's your thing.

06-28-2018, 05:59 AM	#32
dubyam Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 221	While it may be a decade plus after 2005, we are still using the same file system and the same technology for saving photos. Best practices in file storage maintenance for FAT-based systems hasn't changed in the ensuing years.

06-28-2018, 06:30 AM - 1 Like	#33
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	This article is pretty useful on do's and don'ts of memory cards. How to Properly Use and Care for Memory Cards - Photography Life Some may object to the quick format advice I suspect.

06-28-2018, 06:56 AM - 1 Like	#34
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,126	Originally posted by amoringello FYI, just for the safety conscious, Locking the card I useless, mainly because that is merely an optional software-enabled function of the device in which the card is in seated. The slider has no hardware enforcement of protecting the card from rouge malfunctions (or intentional ones). It can not protect the card from being written or modified by any actions not completely under proper and strict control. It's exactly like the punched holes on old floppy disks. i.e. remove the tape covering the hole and the protection is gone. Although it is true that the SD card lock is a software feature, do you have any evidence that mainstream operating systems ignore the lock? From what I've seen in MacOS, the lock is respected (although I've never snooped the USB traffic to see if the OS does write to a locked card). With the card locked, images cannot be accidentally deleted, the OS does not write all it's crap files to the card, and a locked card never gets the "cannot be ejected because it is in use" error. Perhaps some types of malware worms intentionally ignore the card's lock bit to propagate the infection but I'd bet that the majority of trojans and viruses in the wild do not do this. I also use the lock as a convenient reminder that the card is being used and has important data. I always lock my full cards when I swap to an empty one and that makes it easy for me to tell which cards are full and which cards have space. With the card locked, I can't accidentally format it until I'm sure I've got a back-up and that's when I unlock the card. For the vast majority of users, locking the card will reduce the chance of data loss.

06-28-2018, 01:24 PM	#35
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Originally posted by photoptimist Although it is true that the SD card lock is a software feature, do you have any evidence that mainstream operating systems ignore the lock? From what I've seen in MacOS, the lock is respected (although I've never snooped the USB traffic to see if the OS does write to a locked card). With the card locked, images cannot be accidentally deleted, the OS does not write all it's crap files to the card, and a locked card never gets the "cannot be ejected because it is in use" error. ha! THAT is an interesting case for write-protecting. Although I've never ran into issues with those extraneous files, it is always tiresome to find those oddball MAC files on there when I go to remove files manually. If you never write to the card from the computer, it would certainly keep things a bit cleaner for the OCD people out there (raises own hand). Originally posted by photoptimist Perhaps some types of malware worms intentionally ignore the card's lock bit to propagate the infection but I'd bet that the majority of trojans and viruses in the wild do not do this. I also use the lock as a convenient reminder that the card is being used and has important data. I always lock my full cards when I swap to an empty one and that makes it easy for me to tell which cards are full and which cards have space. With the card locked, I can't accidentally format it until I'm sure I've got a back-up and that's when I unlock the card. For the vast majority of users, locking the card will reduce the chance of data loss. Many of my cards are so heavily used that the lock has broken off. I just epoxy a permanent write tab onto them. ---------- Post added 06-28-18 at 04:47 PM ---------- Originally posted by UncleVanya This article is pretty useful on do's and don'ts of memory cards. How to Properly Use and Care for Memory Cards - Photography Life Some may object to the quick format advice I suspect. Pretty good article. Most is basic common sense and they do address several mis-beliefs about flash memory/SDCards. Quick format is definitely the best option unless you have an absolute need to do a full format; like trying to force a remapping of bad blocks. As they state, attempting to do a full format is bad for the health of flash memory. To make things worse than they wrote, blocks are dynamically (and somewhat randomly) allocated as needed (this is done by the card itself, not by the OS)... so while your computer may think it is writing blocks sequentially from beginning to end, it may actually be re-writing the same blocks over and over again, forcing them to wear out much faster than one would expect. So make sure that whatever software you use is fully aware that it is accessing flash memory and behaves appropriately if you feel the absolute need to fully wipe an SD card. (I honestly do not know if either Mac or Windows handles this correctly or not)

06-28-2018, 03:48 PM	#36
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by UncleVanya This article is pretty useful on do's and don'ts of memory cards. How to Properly Use and Care for Memory Cards - Photography Life Some may object to the quick format advice I suspect. Thanks for the article, looks sensible.

06-28-2018, 05:25 PM	#37
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	Originally posted by amoringello --snip FYI, just for the safety conscious, Locking the card I useless, mainly because that is merely an optional software-enabled function of the device in which the card is in seated. The slider has no hardware enforcement of protecting the card from rouge malfunctions (or intentional ones). It can not protect the card from being written or modified by any actions not completely under proper and strict control. It's exactly like the punched holes on old floppy disks. i.e. remove the tape covering the hole and the protection is gone. --snip If anyone wants a good reason for not delete single files from their camera, just think battery life and time involved. Extra cards are cheap.... Deleting files is expensive -- both with battery life and with the time it takes (i.e. the K1 is horribly SLOW at deleting files), and to delete files from both cards is maddening. Formatting in camera uses a bit less battery than deleting all files. But still uses up your battery. Format in the computer before you go out. It's MUCH faster. As a bonus, you even get to name the cards to your liking if that's your thing. Please note the comment about the card reader. If your card reader recognizes the lock tab, the card is essentially 'locked". Most of the newer card readers I have seen do not recognize the tab. Test your card reader and act appropriately. Also, if you are concerned about battery draining activities and you think that formatting your SD cards will drain your camera's battery you have bigger problems than what format you are using. Remember, the FAT file system has been in use since the MS-DOS days (that's the early 80's ya know). On my PC's in the 2000 time frame, NTFS was my file system of choice, so FAT stuff was secondary.

06-29-2018, 12:22 AM	#38
Greg1956 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 76	Hi, I use cam2pc Freeware Edition - Image Browser as my uploading tool. It will bring across DNG and JPG files, but the inbuilt browser only displays JPGs.. Works via usb port connection by cable, usb stick and usb card reader BTW I had to install adobe DNG codec to display Raw files in Windows file viewer and Windows explorer. hope that helps Greg

06-29-2018, 06:51 AM	#39
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by Greg1956 Hi, I use cam2pc Freeware Edition - Image Browser as my uploading tool. It will bring across DNG and JPG files, but the inbuilt browser only displays JPGs.. Works via usb port connection by cable, usb stick and usb card reader BTW I had to install adobe DNG codec to display Raw files in Windows file viewer and Windows explorer. hope that helps Greg Does it have interesting features more than the wizard built in to Windows?

06-30-2018, 03:59 AM	#40
Greg1956 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 76	Yes more flexibility than windows, But I just use it to auto upload from any camera I attach

06-30-2018, 09:14 PM	#41
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	My practice is to read the photos off the card, and then leave the Pentax photo directory on there. When I need more space on the card, I delete the folder of pictures by selecting it on the camera and deleting it that way; this deletes all the pictures in the folder in a pretty quick process. You don't have to worry about anything weird the OS might be doing, like putting photos in the trash instead of really deleting them. I don't believe that deleting files on the computer will mess up the SD card, but if you are concerned about that, deleting them the way I describe will avoid that. I have never had another issues with this method, and I've been doing it for years. I do it this way because then I have a second backup of the photos on the card for a while (just in case) until I need to use the extra space.

07-02-2018, 12:56 PM	#42
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Originally posted by LensBeginner You can't see the files in Explorer, or can't open them? If it's the latter, you just need to install PDCU or another RAW viewer/developer. Have you navigated to the correct folder? The files aren't in the root of the card; they are usually in a folder. -Erik ---------- Post added 07-02-2018 at 01:40 PM ---------- I would never cut and paste just because you are deleting the photos as you copy them. I usually want to keep the originals on the SD card until I verify the copy has gone over correctly AND I've had a chance to make a back-up. Plus, it is easy to just wipe/format a card in the camera when you've gotten all the photos copied in one operation. My workflow revolves around having multiple SD cards (in pairs, 3 to 5 pairs in rotation). I usually shoot cards until they are full saving RAW files on both cards in the camera. I periodically download off the cards but otherwise use the cards until they are full. I use Downloader Pro, which knows what images have been previously downloaded. Once the card is full, I pull the cards and store them at the back of my stack and move to the next pair of cards. When I put a new pair in, I wipe the cards in the camera using the format function; I usually format a bit in advance when I know I'm getting to needing new cards. Occasionally, my process and rate of shooting is slow enough that I will have new cards in hand and may never wipe and older set just storing them away. SD cards have gotten quite cheap.