PEF or DNG?

beaumont · 09-13-2008, 01:09 PM

Pardon my ignorance. While I understand that PEF is "the original RAW Pentax file format" and that DNG is "the Adobe designed general purpose RAW format", I'm not sure which format is best to be using? I'm guessing that DNG may be more widely recognized by post proccessing programs? However, I'm wondering which produces the best results, and why?
thx in advance...

marlon · 09-13-2008, 02:59 PM

I like using the camera's own raw format, it feels more robust to me, but ive recently started using only DNG. Since it's an open standard by Adobe, I think DNG will be future proof for ages, and if you're a good DAM'er (Digital Asset Management), then you'll see most DAM courses say to go witH DNG. So that's my reasoning. Future proofness, DNG.

gawan · 09-13-2008, 03:09 PM

I use DNG also because of the compatibility!

ftpaddict · 09-13-2008, 03:17 PM

I only use PEF cos that's all I gots on mah camruh.

ddhytz · 09-13-2008, 07:15 PM

I use PEF only, also due to the compatibility - DNG cannot be processed in PPL which produces the colours I like best but PEF can be processed in either PPL or other software.

Jodokast96 · 09-13-2008, 09:35 PM

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-software/17796-pef-dng.html

marlon · 09-14-2008, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

I only use PEF cos that's all I gots on mah camruh.

Sometimes I wish I only had that. I thrive on not having choices. The moment I get choices, I get panicky "NOW WHAT? WHAT WHAT?!?!"

Camera Propriety RAW formats (PEF) always wins in my heart... but oh well... DNG

sewebster · 09-14-2008, 02:03 PM

On the Pentax cameras the PEF file is compressed (lossless) but the DNG file is not. If your software can handle either then PEF has the advantage of being smaller and therefore you can take more pictures per memory card. Therefore PEF wins

marlon · 09-14-2008, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by sewebster

On the Pentax cameras the PEF file is compressed (lossless) but the DNG file is not. If your software can handle either then PEF has the advantage of being smaller and therefore you can take more pictures per memory card. Therefore PEF wins

Thats what I thought too.
But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card).

Or am I missing somethuing here?

sewebster · 09-14-2008, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by marlon

Thats what I thought too.
But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card).

Or am I missing somethuing here?

Interesting, you're right. My guess is that the algorithm used to calculate the number of remaining exposures is not very sophisticated. But I don't know for sure. I doubt that I will bother, but you could take a bunch of photos of the same things and then compare the sizes for different formats... if you try it, report the results back here!

pw-pix · 09-14-2008, 09:05 PM

I'm pretty sure DNG is of variable size (like a compressed JPG is) and so the actual number of files per unit of card capacity is variable. The PEF files are always the same size and so the capacity count is consistent and accurate.

**Canada_Rockies** · 09-14-2008, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by marlon

Thats what I thought too.
But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card).

Or am I missing somethuing here?

I have the impression that the gas gauge on my k10d only counts images rather than telling the actual space available.

marlon · 09-15-2008, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Canada_Rockies

I have the impression that the gas gauge on my k10d only counts images rather than telling the actual space available.

Maybe we try tapping on the lcd to make it jump up. I see pilot's doing that in the movies when their planes run out of fuel

procyon · 09-15-2008, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by marlon

Thats what I thought too.
But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card).

Or am I missing somethuing here?

Shoot a picture of something lacking much detail (for example a sheet of paper slightly out of focus) both in PEF and DNG.
Now shoot something with lots of detail also in PEF and DNG.
Compare filesizes.

My personal experience is that DNG stays roughly same (as it is not compressed)
and PEF changes a lot (as lossless compression ratios depends a lot on the complexity of data).

The number of pictures remaining on LCD is (IMHO) calculated for the worst case scenario where all pictures are very complex.

brownargus · 09-15-2008, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by pw-pix

I'm pretty sure DNG is of variable size (like a compressed JPG is) and so the actual number of files per unit of card capacity is variable. The PEF files are always the same size and so the capacity count is consistent and accurate.

The PEF files on my K10D do vary in size between about 9.5 and 11 mB, presumably depending on the content. Some in-camera processing must be being carried out because the PEF files on my old *istD were always the same at around 14.7 mB (from 6 MP).

When expanded from PEF the files end up at 29 mB (8-bit) or 59 mB 16-bit tiffs.

John

09-13-2008, 01:09 PM	#1
beaumont Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 505	PEF or DNG? Pardon my ignorance. While I understand that PEF is "the original RAW Pentax file format" and that DNG is "the Adobe designed general purpose RAW format", I'm not sure which format is best to be using? I'm guessing that DNG may be more widely recognized by post proccessing programs? However, I'm wondering which produces the best results, and why? thx in advance...

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09-13-2008, 02:59 PM	#2
marlon Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 232	I like using the camera's own raw format, it feels more robust to me, but ive recently started using only DNG. Since it's an open standard by Adobe, I think DNG will be future proof for ages, and if you're a good DAM'er (Digital Asset Management), then you'll see most DAM courses say to go witH DNG. So that's my reasoning. Future proofness, DNG.

09-13-2008, 03:09 PM	#3
gawan Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Helsinki Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,400	I use DNG also because of the compatibility!

09-13-2008, 03:17 PM	#4
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	I only use PEF cos that's all I gots on mah camruh.

09-13-2008, 07:15 PM	#5
ddhytz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 602	I use PEF only, also due to the compatibility - DNG cannot be processed in PPL which produces the colours I like best but PEF can be processed in either PPL or other software.

09-13-2008, 09:35 PM	#6
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-software/17796-pef-dng.html

09-14-2008, 01:59 AM	#7
marlon Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 232	Originally posted by ftpaddict I only use PEF cos that's all I gots on mah camruh. Sometimes I wish I only had that. I thrive on not having choices. The moment I get choices, I get panicky "NOW WHAT? WHAT WHAT?!?!" Camera Propriety RAW formats (PEF) always wins in my heart... but oh well... DNG

09-14-2008, 02:03 PM	#8
sewebster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 544	On the Pentax cameras the PEF file is compressed (lossless) but the DNG file is not. If your software can handle either then PEF has the advantage of being smaller and therefore you can take more pictures per memory card. Therefore PEF wins

09-14-2008, 02:18 PM	#9
marlon Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 232	Originally posted by sewebster On the Pentax cameras the PEF file is compressed (lossless) but the DNG file is not. If your software can handle either then PEF has the advantage of being smaller and therefore you can take more pictures per memory card. Therefore PEF wins Thats what I thought too. But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card). Or am I missing somethuing here?

09-14-2008, 05:08 PM	#10
sewebster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 544	Originally posted by marlon Thats what I thought too. But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card). Or am I missing somethuing here? Interesting, you're right. My guess is that the algorithm used to calculate the number of remaining exposures is not very sophisticated. But I don't know for sure. I doubt that I will bother, but you could take a bunch of photos of the same things and then compare the sizes for different formats... if you try it, report the results back here!

09-14-2008, 09:05 PM	#11
pw-pix Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Geelong Photos: Gallery Posts: 138	I'm pretty sure DNG is of variable size (like a compressed JPG is) and so the actual number of files per unit of card capacity is variable. The PEF files are always the same size and so the capacity count is consistent and accurate.

09-14-2008, 10:24 PM	#12
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by marlon Thats what I thought too. But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card). Or am I missing somethuing here? I have the impression that the gas gauge on my k10d only counts images rather than telling the actual space available.

09-15-2008, 02:24 AM	#13
marlon Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 232	Originally posted by Canada_Rockies I have the impression that the gas gauge on my k10d only counts images rather than telling the actual space available. Maybe we try tapping on the lcd to make it jump up. I see pilot's doing that in the movies when their planes run out of fuel

09-15-2008, 07:46 AM	#14
procyon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tallinn Posts: 265	Originally posted by marlon Thats what I thought too. But then I watched the "available photos" on the lcd, and switched between DNG and PEF. And it remained the same (about 82 for my 2 GB card). Or am I missing somethuing here? Shoot a picture of something lacking much detail (for example a sheet of paper slightly out of focus) both in PEF and DNG. Now shoot something with lots of detail also in PEF and DNG. Compare filesizes. My personal experience is that DNG stays roughly same (as it is not compressed) and PEF changes a lot (as lossless compression ratios depends a lot on the complexity of data). The number of pictures remaining on LCD is (IMHO) calculated for the worst case scenario where all pictures are very complex.

09-15-2008, 08:34 AM	#15
brownargus Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK Posts: 55	Originally posted by pw-pix I'm pretty sure DNG is of variable size (like a compressed JPG is) and so the actual number of files per unit of card capacity is variable. The PEF files are always the same size and so the capacity count is consistent and accurate. The PEF files on my K10D do vary in size between about 9.5 and 11 mB, presumably depending on the content. Some in-camera processing must be being carried out because the PEF files on my old *istD were always the same at around 14.7 mB (from 6 MP). When expanded from PEF the files end up at 29 mB (8-bit) or 59 mB 16-bit tiffs. John