[Mikesul]

I'm with you on this one. It really stings that I bought the desktop version of Lr having read that it would be supported indefinitely to then have them pull the subscription model to get any enhancements, which I believe will means no new camera support either. I had been checking out After Shot Pro 3, but after working on the same photo in AF3 and then going to Lr, I discovered highlights that looked blown out in AF3 were there in Lr. Ugh! So now poking at other programs, trying to figure out what sequence of evals to hit, but still using Lr but not wanting to invest much more time in a product that is going to hit me up monthly forever. And yes, I'd be happy to pay for a new 7.x version priced like the 6 version because that lets me upgrade at my pace when I deem the features are worth it for my scenario. The monthly model really irks me, especially knowing that price hikes seem inevitable. I think I can still get the Lr Ps bundle for $9.99/month here, but as I look around, I have no confidence that will persist. On one hand it is attractive because they are both good programs and the standalone version of Ps was pricey, but this does add up, and if it's like the cable TV companies, this is just going to keep going - I can see the $19.99/month hike coming.

I agree with most of what you say and sympathize with your dilemma but, really, indefinitely means exactly what it says: "could end any time - end date uncertain".

The positive side of the Adobe decision has seemed to encourage a blossoming of a great many possible alternatives. It will just take awhile for that to sort itself out. A couple of freeware programs are high in the running.

[clickclick]

I agree with most of what you say and sympathize with your dilemma but, really, indefinitely means exactly what it says: "could end any time - end date uncertain".

The positive side of the Adobe decision has seemed to encourage a blossoming of a great many possible alternatives. It will just take awhile for that to sort itself out. A couple of freeware programs are high in the running.

Yep. I've recently installed Raw Therapee and Darktable. I think the hardest part of this is learning enough about the respective programs to accurately make a comparison. My highlight test started off accidentally. I was pretty happy with the shot, and pulled it into Lr to see how it compared, and that started the plunge to dig deeper into other alternatives. I'm finding I like certain programs for certain things, but not sure how much of that is I just know how to do x adjustment in program y versus z. I feel like Topaz is worth investing more time into. I'm liking some of their plugins and what I've been able to do (DeNoise and Clarity specifically). But again, not sure if it's just because I'm getting a hang of it versus outright capabilities.

Too bad we don't have 36 hour days. Wonder if those folks in that NASA simulation titled "Australia" get any flexibility on that time stuff?

[Mikesul]

Yep. I've recently installed Raw Therapee and Darktable. I think the hardest part of this is learning enough about the respective programs to accurately make a comparison. My highlight test started off accidentally. I was pretty happy with the shot, and pulled it into Lr to see how it compared, and that started the plunge to dig deeper into other alternatives. I'm finding I like certain programs for certain things, but not sure how much of that is I just know how to do x adjustment in program y versus z. I feel like Topaz is worth investing more time into. I'm liking some of their plugins and what I've been able to do (DeNoise and Clarity specifically). But again, not sure if it's just because I'm getting a hang of it versus outright capabilities.

Too bad we don't have 36 hour days. Wonder if those folks in that NASA simulation titled "Australia" get any flexibility on that time stuff?

Exactly most of us invested the time in learning LR and really do not want to learn it all over with different control. Since the NASA simulation is a virtual world I would thing you would get virtual time as well

[BruceBanner]

I'm with you on this one. It really stings that I bought the desktop version of Lr having read that it would be supported indefinitely to then have them pull the subscription model to get any enhancements, which I believe will means no new camera support either. I had been checking out After Shot Pro 3, but after working on the same photo in AF3 and then going to Lr, I discovered highlights that looked blown out in AF3 were there in Lr. Ugh! So now poking at other programs, trying to figure out what sequence of evals to hit, but still using Lr but not wanting to invest much more time in a product that is going to hit me up monthly forever. And yes, I'd be happy to pay for a new 7.x version priced like the 6 version because that lets me upgrade at my pace when I deem the features are worth it for my scenario. The monthly model really irks me, especially knowing that price hikes seem inevitable. I think I can still get the Lr Ps bundle for $9.99/month here, but as I look around, I have no confidence that will persist. On one hand it is attractive because they are both good programs and the standalone version of Ps was pricey, but this does add up, and if it's like the cable TV companies, this is just going to keep going - I can see the $19.99/month hike coming.

I believe that part isn't true. Right now I can purchase LR6 for $205AUD (which equates to a little over a years subscription, and of course no PS in that package). It doesn't have the 'dehaze' feature (which I think is pretty good and have used a fair bit), but I spoke with an Adobe rep and they assured me camera support (and I think even Lens Profiles) are supported for the standalone installs, it's just the new features that aren't.

But $205 is like over a year, that's a long time in the photographic world, in Adobe world that is several updates, so even if LR7 was available now for the same price, you could be missing out heaps from the program some 9-18 months down the line (let alone 2-3yrs which is what you're really trying to achieve by buying the standalone version).

Thing is, I have stuck to version 7.2, I rolled back after an update earlier in the year because I didn't like the change it brought to the presets. With 7.2 you got an awesome 'Auto Settings' applied to RAW files that was better than any other version they rolled out, it took me closer to what I wanted to achieve with most of my shots with one click. I mean of course I'm not an 'Auto' kinda guy, but to have the sliders jump to roughly where you need them to start a basic edit was nice. I even recall seeing articles circulating the net talking about this (at the time).

Adobe Lightroom adds AI, machine learning for better auto settings | ZDNet

Adobe Releases Lightroom Classic 7.1 (and one the new features is pretty awesome!) - Lightroom Killer Tips

But soon after that specific update, the 'Auto Setting' got stuffed and the results less than stella.
I've talked with other photographers from other brands who feel exactly the same, that a certain update hit a sweet spot, but successive updates changed the presets and how they looked and ruined it.
If I bought a hypothetical LR7 version for $205 I'd want to be able to select a specific version, such as 7.1-2 and have the preset feel I want, but also still receive updates and new features without ruining the presets, so I know that's not gonna happen (people are already complaining about this very latest update they have just rolled out), and this fuels my desire to switch and ditch entirely.

Yep. I've recently installed Raw Therapee and Darktable. I think the hardest part of this is learning enough about the respective programs to accurately make a comparison. My highlight test started off accidentally. I was pretty happy with the shot, and pulled it into Lr to see how it compared, and that started the plunge to dig deeper into other alternatives. I'm finding I like certain programs for certain things, but not sure how much of that is I just know how to do x adjustment in program y versus z. I feel like Topaz is worth investing more time into. I'm liking some of their plugins and what I've been able to do (DeNoise and Clarity specifically). But again, not sure if it's just because I'm getting a hang of it versus outright capabilities.

Too bad we don't have 36 hour days. Wonder if those folks in that NASA simulation titled "Australia" get any flexibility on that time stuff?

I'm a huge fan of Topaz, or rather their 'Adaptive Exposure' element. I find the best results of Topaz is to use it in conjunction with masking, it can really add some punch to your subject when using those very wide open apertures and you want to create an even greater subject isolation. I can't really speak of the Studio version of it as I just stuck with the plugins, but my first impressions were a little flat, possibly I have not given it much of a chance. I still see Topaz as a plugin/effect feature, rather than an overall editor, hence this hunt for a new alternative.
People tell me Capture One is also something to keep an eye on, but I was narrowed down to Affinity due to its Topaz support (I've already invested over $100 in their plugins!).

[clickclick]

but I spoke with an Adobe rep and they assured me camera support (and I think even Lens Profiles) are supported for the standalone installs

I hope this does equate to support for new models like the K-1 II and new lenses. I thought we were at an end for those types of updates for the standalone Lr 6 and would have to use ACR as a first step for importing files from new cameras if you didn't want to go the subscription route.

Agree it would be nice to lock in on a version and get other updates. I've seen remarks on what you're talking about on 7.2 and 7.3 and it adds to looking at alternatives.

Have you seen this article?

Testing 10 Photoshop Contenders – The Amazing Sky

[BruceBanner]

I hope this does equate to support for new models like the K-1 II and new lenses. I thought we were at an end for those types of updates for the standalone Lr 6 and would have to use ACR as a first step for importing files from new cameras if you didn't want to go the subscription route.

Agree it would be nice to lock in on a version and get other updates. I've seen remarks on what you're talking about on 7.2 and 7.3 and it adds to looking at alternatives.

Have you seen this article?

Testing 10 Photoshop Contenders – The Amazing Sky

Nope, I'll have a look at that cheers.

I just googled Capture One, ouch for that price tag, makes options like AP, Darktable and RT attractive!

[BruceBanner]

Well I have completed my first Affinity Photo edit, using layers, masks and Topaz Plugins. The whole thing (including setting up the plugins, editing, brush work etc, took around 45-60mins), not too shabby for an old man stumbling around in the dark.

Before edit;



After Affinity;


I still don't understand half of the program, the Personas, Liquid thing etc. weird.

I wish there was a more simpler interface aspect like LR as well as the harder PS interface which seemed to be more of the case. For example, even just sharpening the whole picture was more akin to PS than finding a slider to play with (like what LR would do). I haven't quite worked out how to make a 'sharpness' brush for example. But yeah, seems to be a pretty decent piece of software, especially for the $55AUD i paid for it.

[Riggomatic]

Well I have completed my first Affinity Photo edit, using layers, masks and Topaz Plugins. The whole thing (including setting up the plugins, editing, brush work etc, took around 45-60mins), not too shabby for an old man stumbling around in the dark.

Before edit;



After Affinity;


I still don't understand half of the program, the Personas, Liquid thing etc. weird.

I wish there was a more simpler interface aspect like LR as well as the harder PS interface which seemed to be more of the case. For example, even just sharpening the whole picture was more akin to PS than finding a slider to play with (like what LR would do). I haven't quite worked out how to make a 'sharpness' brush for example. But yeah, seems to be a pretty decent piece of software, especially for the $55AUD i paid for it.

Just watched a tutorial on sharpening in Affinity. The person went through 3 or 4 different methods. I'll forget them by tomorrow.

[BruceBanner]

Just watched a tutorial on sharpening in Affinity. The person went through 3 or 4 different methods. I'll forget them by tomorrow.

Yeah exactly lol, there might be a way to save a quick preset, I get the feeling it's quite customisable.

The only off thing I have found thus far is that it doesn't seem to like to have anything bound to right clicking, I keep expecting something to happen if I right click but it does nothing...

[BruceBanner]

Even if you have to go through Topaz Studio, it's easy enough. As you know since you have Studio and some plugins, you just activate them within Studio.

I need to spend more time figuring out Studio. I find opening a RAW with it is so flat that I haven't even begun to breath some life into them without a lot of work, and I'm not really interested in someone else's presets. I'd like to have it use the profile as shot by the camera, but I haven't figured out how to do that. Need to contact their support. This has all left me with a screwy workflow where I use either DCU or Lightroom to export a Tiff from the RAW and then using that in Studio so I have a baseline to start from that's not completely at ground zero.

Oh, forgot to say, I managed the previous edit in Affinity with the Topaz Plugins (Clarity and Adjust 5) without going via Studio, direct plugin (GUI) load

[clickclick]

Oh, forgot to say, I managed the previous edit in Affinity with the Topaz Plugins (Clarity and Adjust 5) without going via Studio, direct plugin (GUI) load

Cool and good to know - seems like a nicer/less step work flow that way

[BruceBanner]

And refund time ... two main deal breakers;

1) No syncing of settings/changes applied to a single image applied to multiple images after (useful for studio or event work where consistency in style is achieved from a mini bulk of images)

2) I notice severe brush stroke lag when using large brushes, smaller ones are not so noticeable, in essence it runs slower than PS/LR (on my machine, YMMV).

Shame, was looking to jump ship. On the other hand its nice to see some things I took for granted in Adobe are perhaps not as widespread among other applications (makes me appreciate Adobe that little bit more).

[clickclick]

And refund time ... two main deal breakers;

Well, one down. Bummer. At least you have recourse.

[BruceBanner]

I hope this does equate to support for new models like the K-1 II and new lenses. I thought we were at an end for those types of updates for the standalone Lr 6 and would have to use ACR as a first step for importing files from new cameras if you didn't want to go the subscription route.

Agree it would be nice to lock in on a version and get other updates. I've seen remarks on what you're talking about on 7.2 and 7.3 and it adds to looking at alternatives.

Have you seen this article?

Testing 10 Photoshop Contenders – The Amazing Sky

There are some things I can live without, such as a more convoluted way to sharpening the image than a simple basic slider (that might be adequate in this instance). What I have learned is that Masking, Layering and Image Syncing are high up on the wanted list, and if the program can do these things then its more than likely it can do the other stuff. I did have a look at that article, if my memory serves me correctly only ON1 Photo RAW might have the ability to do all of these things, at least the article claims it could be a LR & PS replacement (rather than just a LR or PS replacement as a lot of the other standalone applications might manage). It's just unclear to me at this time if ON1 supports image syncing or plugin support (for my Topaz) but I have emailed to find out.

[emalvick]

In reading this thread, a problem I see is that people think Affinity Photo is going to replace LR, but that isn't its intent. It is competing with Photoshop, and it has a raw processor like ACR built in like Photoshop does. But, it does not have the workflow options like LR because that isn't what it is competing against.

Realistically, if one is trying to jump from LR, they should be looking at software like On1 Camera Raw, Capture One, RawTherapee, etc. But, you are less likely to be able to use plugins going that route.

Jumping ship from Adobe does require recognizing where your needs and usage lies. If you predominantly use LR, then Affinity Photo isn't going to replace LR. You'll need something else. And, if you use both LR and Photoshop, well, you'll probably need two programs for that (one for your workflow and raw files and one for editing).

For my workflow, I use a combination of DxO Photolab and Affinity Photo. I can use Photoshop/Lightroom plugins in each software, and I use DxO as my LR replacement. I've also tried On1, but it will not replace PS as well as Affinity Photo will (but perhaps good enough for your use). I find it a bit unstable although I usually check it on a 6 month interval for improvements.

By the way, most software support image syncing, but not like the way LR does it. You have to go through a process of saving presets and then applying them to subsequent photos. DxO works ok for that, but I find its auto features are so good that I rarely need to do syncing as the images require little tweaking after the initial profiles are applied by default.