The Darktable Users Coterie

**JensE** · 01-20-2020, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by deus ursus

Yes. Pentax like base curve is turned on by default.Another of my friend also felt the difference. So we are planning to downgrade the DT to 2.x

My previously edited pictures, when loaded in 3.0, look OK. For the few pictures, which I edited using the basecurve approach in 3.0, everything was quick & smooth as well. I just loaded one example, and it matches the saturation & brigtness of the out-of-camera picture rather closely, without touching anything.

I'd suggest to look through the list of active modules and make sure that nothing unexpected is in there. I e.g. by mistake somehow changed my raw black/whitepoint default recently, which had a very dramatic effect.

cprobertson1 · 01-23-2020, 03:07 AM - **1 Like**

Man, what a useful thread - thank you all very much! I think I'll spend tonight running the 3D printer, listening to music, and having a deeper look at darkroom (I've used it for practically all my photos, but thanks to this thread Im ready to take things to the next level!

**jbinpg** · 01-31-2020, 01:17 AM - **1 Like**

One of the core darktable devs, Aurelien Pierre, has an article up on pixls.us that should be required reading for all darktable users. It gets into the theory behind the modules as well as recommendations for which modules we should be using and why:

PIXLS.US - Darktable 3:RGB or Lab? Which Modules? Help!

ChristianRock · 01-31-2020, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

One of the core darktable devs, Aurelien Pierre, has an article up on pixls.us that should be required reading for all darktable users. It gets into the theory behind the modules as well as recommendations for which modules we should be using and why:

PIXLS.US - Darktable 3:RGB or Lab? Which Modules? Help!

Can't read the whole thing now, but that is a very interesting article.

It sounds to me that a lot of modules need to be rewritten...

Edit: ok, some first impressions.
I don't do heavy editing but I like the basics to be right.
I like the direction that Darktable is going, but 3.0 still feels more like a beta product right now. As soon as I loaded a few too many modules, it seemed to crash my system. And it just seems quite a bit slower in general, especially when opening a different folder for editing - it takes forever to come up.
The results from the new filmicRGB seem very promising, and I finally played more with the color balance module. They all work fine, but I feel like I'm having to learn an all new software because the results are so different now, and a software that might still change quite a bit.
So, unless you need something specific from 3.0, I think I would stick with 2.7 for now. At least don't convert your database yet - try using it as a separate app first to see how you like it. But don't give up on Darktable, great things are coming up

Last edited by ChristianRock; 01-31-2020 at 03:56 PM.

**jbinpg** · 01-31-2020, 08:58 PM

I would not say v3.0 is in beta condition. Everything is working fine for me and I am riding the edge-of-your-pants dev code not the stable release. It is totally stable on my machines. What Aurelien is pointing out is that some of the existing modules could be rewritten so they support the devs' ideas of how a module should behave. Meanwhile, current code works well enough with some reservations. Can't wait until Contrast Equalizer is rewritten since I use this module a lot.

**JensE** · 02-01-2020, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

They all work fine, but I feel like I'm having to learn an all new software because the results are so different now, and a software that might still change quite a bit.

I spent ~30h by now with it. It regularly blackens using openCL when I use the local contrast module on high-contrast images. Worked around using the contrast equalizer. Other than that, it's been very stable for me, with only a few small glitches in usability. I exclusively used the filmicRGB workflow in 3.0 for a lot of landscapes, sometimes with a rearranged processing pipeline, e.g. graduated filter before the tone equalizer, and overall am very happy with the results. It was some learning curve, but well worth it. Very clean, artefact-free output even for significantly processed images to bring high scene dynamics into printable range.

selfnoise · 02-04-2020, 11:04 AM

Is anyone having any issues with 3.0 and the KP? When I import images now they have an odd desaturated look, almost like an Instagram filter. I can't quite figure out what the problem is... I'm shooting using DNG.

ChristianRock · 02-04-2020, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by selfnoise

Is anyone having any issues with 3.0 and the KP? When I import images now they have an odd desaturated look, almost like an Instagram filter. I can't quite figure out what the problem is... I'm shooting using DNG.

In page 9 someone else was complaining about this... must be a bug with some cameras?

I don't have that issue, but the settings for my K10D differ wildly from my K-S1. I edited some files from the K10D and wrote a preset. When I try to use that preset in the K-S1, the saturation and colors are completely off (and no white balance changes are involved). Something interesting is going on...

**JensE** · 02-04-2020, 01:29 PM

I have to reset the 'raw black/white point' module to defaults after applying one of my styles. Maybe related.

ChristianRock · 02-04-2020, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by JensE

I have to reset the 'raw black/white point' module to defaults after applying one of my styles. Maybe related.

What I do is set my black point and exposure before applying the style. My styles specifically don't contain white balance or exposure at all.

If black/white point is your only issue, you're not doing too bad...

**JensE** · 02-04-2020, 02:27 PM

Just to make sure I'm understood: Related to @selfnoise's question, if for some reason the black level 0 to 3 in "raw black/white point" are off, just slightly for whatever reason, this can lead to a washed out look.

Originally posted by ChristianRock

What I do is set my black point and exposure before applying the style. My styles specifically don't contain white balance or exposure at all.

If black/white point is your only issue, you're not doing too bad...

I normally don't touch the four raw black point (nor white point) values at all. They're part of the DNG metadata and determine how the channel values are scaled - not to be confused with choice of tonal range. This comes later in the processing pipeline, after demosaic, input color matrix etc., using filmicRGB in my case.

I use a "style" as a first step, because there is no out of the box set of modules applicable to a filmicRGB (instead of Base Curve) workflow defined. This way, some of the default modules are turned off, others turned on with neutral settings, because they (almost) always get used in my workflow.

**jbinpg** · 02-05-2020, 10:14 PM

Just a note that the latest v3.1.x dev code has changed the order of the modules in the processing pipeline. To me, it has improved the final image. Printing seems to be borked for the moment but that is something i don't use.

**kaseki** · 02-17-2020, 10:50 AM

Today I opened my Flatpak installation of Darktable to convert a jpg into a rotated hard copy. For the first time in my intermittent recent openings, Flatpak pulled the 3.0.0 version instead of the 2.6.3 version. From this I conclude that a version 3 Flatpak configuration has finally been built and put into the Flatpak repository (or whatever it is called). It does convert some stuff, but the message wasn't too clear about what.

**JensE** · 02-17-2020, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

Just a note that the latest v3.1.x dev code has changed the order of the modules in the processing pipeline. To me, it has improved the final image.

Changing the order on-the-fly is one of the very useful new features in 3.0 - I'm using a non-default order most of the time. Most of the time I'm pulling Graduated Density to an earlier stage before the tone equalizer. G.D. is one of the modules, which the otherwise very useful article on pixls.us by Aurélien PIERRE and community doesn't discuss. I could use "exposure" with a mask instead (useful for more complex geometries anyway), but the interface of the dedicated module is quicker to adjust for simple cases.

ddharriman · 03-06-2020, 11:27 AM

The already mentioned above Aurélien Pierre has posted a survey on “how(…), for what and by whom” darktable is used, and the objective is “to help making design and development decisions with a little less guessing and assuming”.

One can access his post here: darktable user survey - darktable - discuss.pixls.us

And the survey can be accessed directly here: darktable user base survey

Best regards,

01-31-2020, 01:17 AM - 1 Like	#138
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Essential reading for all darktable users One of the core darktable devs, Aurelien Pierre, has an article up on pixls.us that should be required reading for all darktable users. It gets into the theory behind the modules as well as recommendations for which modules we should be using and why: PIXLS.US - Darktable 3:RGB or Lab? Which Modules? Help!

02-17-2020, 10:50 AM	#148
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	FYI Today I opened my Flatpak installation of Darktable to convert a jpg into a rotated hard copy. For the first time in my intermittent recent openings, Flatpak pulled the 3.0.0 version instead of the 2.6.3 version. From this I conclude that a version 3 Flatpak configuration has finally been built and put into the Flatpak repository (or whatever it is called). It does convert some stuff, but the message wasn't too clear about what.

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01-20-2020, 02:48 AM	#136
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Originally posted by deus ursus Yes. Pentax like base curve is turned on by default.Another of my friend also felt the difference. So we are planning to downgrade the DT to 2.x My previously edited pictures, when loaded in 3.0, look OK. For the few pictures, which I edited using the basecurve approach in 3.0, everything was quick & smooth as well. I just loaded one example, and it matches the saturation & brigtness of the out-of-camera picture rather closely, without touching anything. I'd suggest to look through the list of active modules and make sure that nothing unexpected is in there. I e.g. by mistake somehow changed my raw black/whitepoint default recently, which had a very dramatic effect.

01-23-2020, 03:07 AM - 1 Like	#137
cprobertson1 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Irvine, Ayrshire Posts: 386	Man, what a useful thread - thank you all very much! I think I'll spend tonight running the 3D printer, listening to music, and having a deeper look at darkroom (I've used it for practically all my photos, but thanks to this thread Im ready to take things to the next level!

01-31-2020, 01:35 PM	#139
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910 Original Poster	Originally posted by jbinpg One of the core darktable devs, Aurelien Pierre, has an article up on pixls.us that should be required reading for all darktable users. It gets into the theory behind the modules as well as recommendations for which modules we should be using and why: PIXLS.US - Darktable 3:RGB or Lab? Which Modules? Help! Can't read the whole thing now, but that is a very interesting article. It sounds to me that a lot of modules need to be rewritten... Edit: ok, some first impressions. I don't do heavy editing but I like the basics to be right. I like the direction that Darktable is going, but 3.0 still feels more like a beta product right now. As soon as I loaded a few too many modules, it seemed to crash my system. And it just seems quite a bit slower in general, especially when opening a different folder for editing - it takes forever to come up. The results from the new filmicRGB seem very promising, and I finally played more with the color balance module. They all work fine, but I feel like I'm having to learn an all new software because the results are so different now, and a software that might still change quite a bit. So, unless you need something specific from 3.0, I think I would stick with 2.7 for now. At least don't convert your database yet - try using it as a separate app first to see how you like it. But don't give up on Darktable, great things are coming up Last edited by ChristianRock; 01-31-2020 at 03:56 PM.

01-31-2020, 08:58 PM	#140
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	I would not say v3.0 is in beta condition. Everything is working fine for me and I am riding the edge-of-your-pants dev code not the stable release. It is totally stable on my machines. What Aurelien is pointing out is that some of the existing modules could be rewritten so they support the devs' ideas of how a module should behave. Meanwhile, current code works well enough with some reservations. Can't wait until Contrast Equalizer is rewritten since I use this module a lot.

02-01-2020, 09:22 AM	#141
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Originally posted by ChristianRock They all work fine, but I feel like I'm having to learn an all new software because the results are so different now, and a software that might still change quite a bit. I spent ~30h by now with it. It regularly blackens using openCL when I use the local contrast module on high-contrast images. Worked around using the contrast equalizer. Other than that, it's been very stable for me, with only a few small glitches in usability. I exclusively used the filmicRGB workflow in 3.0 for a lot of landscapes, sometimes with a rearranged processing pipeline, e.g. graduated filter before the tone equalizer, and overall am very happy with the results. It was some learning curve, but well worth it. Very clean, artefact-free output even for significantly processed images to bring high scene dynamics into printable range.

02-04-2020, 11:04 AM	#142
selfnoise Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Westbrook, ME, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 288	Is anyone having any issues with 3.0 and the KP? When I import images now they have an odd desaturated look, almost like an Instagram filter. I can't quite figure out what the problem is... I'm shooting using DNG.

02-04-2020, 01:27 PM	#143
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910 Original Poster	Originally posted by selfnoise Is anyone having any issues with 3.0 and the KP? When I import images now they have an odd desaturated look, almost like an Instagram filter. I can't quite figure out what the problem is... I'm shooting using DNG. In page 9 someone else was complaining about this... must be a bug with some cameras? I don't have that issue, but the settings for my K10D differ wildly from my K-S1. I edited some files from the K10D and wrote a preset. When I try to use that preset in the K-S1, the saturation and colors are completely off (and no white balance changes are involved). Something interesting is going on...

02-04-2020, 01:29 PM	#144
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	I have to reset the 'raw black/white point' module to defaults after applying one of my styles. Maybe related.

02-04-2020, 02:09 PM	#145
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910 Original Poster	Originally posted by JensE I have to reset the 'raw black/white point' module to defaults after applying one of my styles. Maybe related. What I do is set my black point and exposure before applying the style. My styles specifically don't contain white balance or exposure at all. If black/white point is your only issue, you're not doing too bad...

02-04-2020, 02:27 PM	#146
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Just to make sure I'm understood: Related to @selfnoise's question, if for some reason the black level 0 to 3 in "raw black/white point" are off, just slightly for whatever reason, this can lead to a washed out look. Originally posted by ChristianRock What I do is set my black point and exposure before applying the style. My styles specifically don't contain white balance or exposure at all. If black/white point is your only issue, you're not doing too bad... I normally don't touch the four raw black point (nor white point) values at all. They're part of the DNG metadata and determine how the channel values are scaled - not to be confused with choice of tonal range. This comes later in the processing pipeline, after demosaic, input color matrix etc., using filmicRGB in my case. I use a "style" as a first step, because there is no out of the box set of modules applicable to a filmicRGB (instead of Base Curve) workflow defined. This way, some of the default modules are turned off, others turned on with neutral settings, because they (almost) always get used in my workflow.

02-05-2020, 10:14 PM	#147
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Just a note that the latest v3.1.x dev code has changed the order of the modules in the processing pipeline. To me, it has improved the final image. Printing seems to be borked for the moment but that is something i don't use.

02-17-2020, 02:24 PM	#149
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Originally posted by jbinpg Just a note that the latest v3.1.x dev code has changed the order of the modules in the processing pipeline. To me, it has improved the final image. Changing the order on-the-fly is one of the very useful new features in 3.0 - I'm using a non-default order most of the time. Most of the time I'm pulling Graduated Density to an earlier stage before the tone equalizer. G.D. is one of the modules, which the otherwise very useful article on pixls.us by Aurélien PIERRE and community doesn't discuss. I could use "exposure" with a mask instead (useful for more complex geometries anyway), but the interface of the dedicated module is quicker to adjust for simple cases.

03-06-2020, 11:27 AM	#150
ddharriman Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 345	The already mentioned above Aurélien Pierre has posted a survey on “how(…), for what and by whom” darktable is used, and the objective is “to help making design and development decisions with a little less guessing and assuming”. One can access his post here: darktable user survey - darktable - discuss.pixls.us And the survey can be accessed directly here: darktable user base survey Best regards,