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11-04-2018, 07:01 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Great points. I've considered self hosting. Its probably more expensive than people realize. I'd still probably do it if I didn't work with computers daily.
When evaluating hosting costs, my questioning starts "What will it cost me to do it myself." Honestly, the time and effort, and money these sites save you is what makes them worthwhile. I already have a couple of my own domain names, and look after a few websites. I still don't consider it to be worth my while to do it myself. To me 4 bucks a month is a bargain.

Even already owning a web server, and domain names, the cost of the dedicated IP means it's cheaper to just use flicker.

11-04-2018, 07:04 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When evaluating hosting costs, my questioning starts "What will it cost me to do it myself." Honestly, the time and effort, and money these sites save you is what makes them worthwhile. I already have a couple of my own domain names, and look after a few websites. I still don't consider it to be worth my while to do it myself. To me 4 bucks a month is a bargain.

Even already owning a web server, and domain names, the cost of the dedicated IP means it's cheaper to just use flicker.
I'm in a similar boat. I'll only move to self hosting if the control factors are needed and not available from a good trusted service.
11-04-2018, 12:10 PM   #123
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If you want to use your own domain but without hosting, it might be worth looking at SmugMug's "Power"-level plan. $6/month, billed annually, and they claim you can use your own domain with it.

BTW, at $50 per year, Flickr Pro is starting to look a little similar SmugMug's own "Basic" level of service ($4/month), only with a different branding and look&feel on it...
11-04-2018, 01:23 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Don't upload too many photos at a time. They'll suspend your account. And they don't tell you how many is too many.
Thanks for the heads up!

11-04-2018, 02:04 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I think most people are bothered that rather than implementing a cap and stopping all uploads until you are below 1000 images, they are going to delete images until 1000 is your total. Furthermore, the effect this will have on forums like this one where deceased members photos will vanish and where even live members may elect to not bother to relink photos if they delete or rehost them is going to be disruptive.
While I agree that deleting the >1000 posts seems harsh, I do understand their reasoning. They aim to be an arena for "social" activity and interaction, not merely an image dump. This part of the site was no doubt disrupted quite badly with the 1 TB free limit as it pulled in lots of people wanting cheap storage only. This means they drive away those who're willing to pay, or at least spend time on the site to make it possible to make revernue from ads. All they are left with are those who cost money without generating an income. That sounds like a really bad business idea.

That said, disabling uploading at 1000 would probably suffice to get people to either curate their stream or start paying.

I'm quite content with paying for the service. For purely hosting I could use another service I already pay for, but it wouldn't be as convenient - and especially not for the monthly challenges here on PF.
11-04-2018, 02:42 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I think most people are bothered that rather than implementing a cap and stopping all uploads until you are below 1000 images, they are going to delete images until 1000 is your total. Furthermore, the effect this will have on forums like this one where deceased members photos will vanish and where even live members may elect to not bother to relink photos if they delete or rehost them is going to be disruptive.
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Flip it around, the cost of storage has fallen over time pretty steadily. The cost of the service is probably mostly in serving the content reliably and quickly. The users could reduce their file holdings to 1000 meeting the requirements and barely make any dent in the cost for the company. This seems more likely to be calculated as a way to get users motivated to do the easier thing, pay rather than curate. It just flies in the face of more generic services which still offer considerably more storage than the 1000 photos use for free. And the sites previous space limits were so much higher that the impact will be large.

I opted to pay up.
I think it is reasonable for Smugmug to decide to monetize this part of their business. No one can guarantee that they will never charge or raise prices and even if the price of storage isn't huge, it has some cost. You mentioned some other "generic" services, but none of those seem to provide the social aspect or easy linking to Forums either. And several, like Amazon Photos and Drop Box aren't exactly free either.

Anyway, Flickr has created something that isn't truly mimicked in the rest of the market. P Base, Photobucket, etc all used to be closer to the Flickr model, but aren't anywhere close at this point. It isn't that I am happy paying money to upload my images there, but I don't know that there is anywhere else that would truly provide something similar. Most of my photos are for use here and while I have uploaded a few images to Pentax Forums, the size limitation of images makes it so that I don't find it as useful, particularly not when talking about the qualities of a new camera body or lens.
11-04-2018, 04:49 PM - 1 Like   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
the cost of storage has fallen over time pretty steadily. The cost of the service is probably mostly in serving the content reliably and quickly.
Interestingly, the cost of cloud storage HASN'T gone down significantly over the past five years (according to an article I read, not my research). I suspect it's because of the second part of the equation - speed of service. I can buy a 4TB SATA drive for about what I paid for 2TB five years ago (in fact, I did, just last month). However, the JPEGs and DNGs I'm storing now are almost twice as big as the ones from five years ago. I'm also more likely to throw a couple videos into a shoot, so the cost of storing one shoot hasn't gone down - it's stayed the same. The larger files take almost twice as long to load, so I need a faster drive (and a faster PC) to have the same "user experience" that I had five years ago. I suspect the same holds for cloud providers - while the cost for one TB at the same speed may have gone down, they have to continually upgrade every component in the chain or else they are "slow" by the ever-increasing standards of the day.

QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
This part of the site was no doubt disrupted quite badly with the 1 TB free limit as it pulled in lots of people wanting cheap storage only.
I have to say, as a "Pro" subscriber for the past ten years, the complaints about Flickr definitely went up as Yahoo cut staff and offered free terabytes. It started to feel like K-mart - no one goes there except for something cheap, good luck finding an employee if you need one, and some of the people that ARE there are extremely sketchy. As an aside, I wonder how many of the 97% of "free" accounts that aren't over the 1000 picture limit are just robo-scam accounts with NO pictures, or a handful of stolen photos of a Russian glamour model?

11-04-2018, 05:02 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think it is reasonable for Smugmug to decide to monetize this part of their business. No one can guarantee that they will never charge or raise prices and even if the price of storage isn't huge, it has some cost. You mentioned some other "generic" services, but none of those seem to provide the social aspect or easy linking to Forums either. And several, like Amazon Photos and Drop Box aren't exactly free either.
I didn't say free and also didn't say they offered the same service and expanded on that later. I agree.

---------- Post added 11-04-18 at 07:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
Interestingly, the cost of cloud storage HASN'T gone down significantly over the past five years (according to an article I read, not my research). I suspect it's because of the second part of the equation - speed of service. I can buy a 4TB SATA drive for about what I paid for 2TB five years ago (in fact, I did, just last month). However, the JPEGs and DNGs I'm storing now are almost twice as big as the ones from five years ago. I'm also more likely to throw a couple videos into a shoot, so the cost of storing one shoot hasn't gone down - it's stayed the same. The larger files take almost twice as long to load, so I need a faster drive (and a faster PC) to have the same "user experience" that I had five years ago. I suspect the same holds for cloud providers - while the cost for one TB at the same speed may have gone down, they have to continually upgrade every component in the chain or else they are "slow" by the ever-increasing standards of the day.
True - but storage costs have dropped and many services have increased their amount of storage offered - for example Amazon photos for prime users is now unlimited storage. I did say the cost of hosting is what is actually costing them money. The speed of access is costing more and faster access is more expensive. I suggest that the limitation being based on a number of photos isn't because they are paying too much for storage - but that may be the easiest way to move people into paying. My actual point is that I seriously doubt that my 2700+ files cost as much as an under 1000 file user who has more hits on his or her photos daily. And while that is true - asking me to subsidise the costs is acceptable if it keeps the service viable but I do slightly resent it.
11-04-2018, 05:10 PM - 1 Like   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
And while that is true - asking me to subsidise the costs is acceptable if it keeps the service viable but I do slightly resent it.
That's fair - but then, since I've been subsidizing YOU for the past few years...
11-04-2018, 05:39 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
It started to feel like K-mart - no one goes there except for something cheap, good luck finding an employee if you need one, and some of the people that ARE there are extremely sketchy. As an aside, I wonder how many of the 97% of "free" accounts that aren't over the 1000 picture limit are just robo-scam accounts with NO pictures, or a handful of stolen photos of a Russian glamour model?
K-Mart went out of business.
11-04-2018, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
K-Mart went out of business.
Where am I going to shop for bell bottom pants and paisley shirts then. At least that's what they were selling last time I was there.
11-04-2018, 06:44 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
K-Mart went out of business.
Yep, after years of a failing business model - you can only cut so many corners. We had one of the last stores in the state (I think they had a captive audience, because it was near the college campus, and there was no real estate on that side of town that a Wal-Mart could fit in). They always had a good selection of cheap Christmas decorations, but every time I stopped by (once a year - see the problem?), there was an air of desolation about the place. I drove by and saw the "store closing" banner today.
11-04-2018, 08:10 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
That's fair - but then, since I've been subsidizing YOU for the past few years...
Thank you!
11-05-2018, 11:45 AM   #134
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Here's an article from Creative Commons on how CC will be working with SmugMug to try to see how/if they can avoid millions of CC-licensed photos being removed from the "Commons" as SmugMug starts deleting photos from accounts...
11-07-2018, 08:30 AM   #135
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I'm an amateur photographer. I make no money shooting and publishing photographs.

I have 25,384 photos in 134 albums on Flickr (using 7.6% of 1TB). I put them there exclusively for sharing, not as a backup (although that did come in handy once).
I don't know if they consider me to be one of their abusive free users.

I'm thinking of getting a "Pro" account to at least buy me a year to figure out what I'm going to do. The first-year discount makes this a bit more palatable.

I'm not worried so much about recovering the photos as I am about re-creating the way I have them organized on Flickr.

I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to try and reproduce the albums, cover shots, and annotations on a new site.

And I'll be shooting thousands of more pictures this winter. The path of least resistance to me for now is to go "Pro", until they grossly alter those accounts.

Last edited by shideg; 11-07-2018 at 02:37 PM.
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