K-5 and Adobe color profiles in Lightroom 6

mlaird · 11-05-2018, 06:30 PM

I shot some nice fall foliage pictures recently, and as I was adjusting them, I decided to try switching from the Adobe Standard color profile to a Pentax one. I was disappointed to find that I have no options to pick from! I haven't done this in quite a while, and it turns out the last shot I adjusted the color profile on was from my old K20D, which has a camera-specific profile in Lightroom and Camera Raw. I looked in my profiles directory (C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom\Resources\CameraProfiles\Camera), and found that Adobe provided profiles for the K10D, K20D, K200D, K-7, K-3 II, and K-1. My K-5 and many other Pentax cameras aren't included.

Am I just out of luck in terms of an Adobe-provided camera-specific profile?

I thought I would at least get an embedded profile from the camera itself, but I'm out of luck on that front as well. I always shoot RAW, but I have also always been shooting PEF. Is an embedded profile only added to DNG files, and not to PEF files? Is there any other way I can try out the Pentax color profile instead of Adobe's standard one?

stevebrot · 11-05-2018, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by mlaird

Am I just out of luck in terms of an Adobe-provided camera-specific profile?

Originally posted by mlaird

Is an embedded profile only added to DNG files, and not to PEF files?

The answer is yes on both counts. Embedded profiles are a feature of DNG, but not PEF. Profiles other than Adobe Standard disappeared after the K-7 and did not make a new appearance until the K-3II and are currently limited to the K-1 and K-1ii. You can purchase camera profiles from third-party sources or you can make your own using Adobe's DNG Profile Editor (works for PEF too).

Steve

Fauxton · 11-05-2018, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by mlaird

I shot some nice fall foliage pictures recently, and as I was adjusting them, I decided to try switching from the Adobe Standard color profile to a Pentax one. I was disappointed to find that I have no options to pick from! I haven't done this in quite a while, and it turns out the last shot I adjusted the color profile on was from my old K20D, which has a camera-specific profile in Lightroom and Camera Raw. I looked in my profiles directory (C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom\Resources\CameraProfiles\Camera), and found that Adobe provided profiles for the K10D, K20D, K200D, K-7, K-3 II, and K-1. My K-5 and many other Pentax cameras aren't included.

Am I just out of luck in terms of an Adobe-provided camera-specific profile?

I thought I would at least get an embedded profile from the camera itself, but I'm out of luck on that front as well. I always shoot RAW, but I have also always been shooting PEF. Is an embedded profile only added to DNG files, and not to PEF files? Is there any other way I can try out the Pentax color profile instead of Adobe's standard one?

As SteveBrot says - you can find the DNG Profile Editor here -> Adobe - DNG Profile Editor : For Windows : DNG Profile Editor 1.0.4

MarkJerling · 11-05-2018, 06:51 PM

This may be an option for you:
Huelight Pentax Camera Profiles

TonyW · 11-06-2018, 03:40 AM

If I understand correctly you are wanting to get the choice of picture control as applied to the JPEG view in camera with your raw images?

I suspect you may find more Pentax profiles if you look in the Adobe Camera Raw Standard folder located (on my system):
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic CC\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard

Once a camera has been added to the ACR profiles it is usual to see not only Adobe interpretation of a basic raw rendering but also their interpretation of the camera presets applied to JPEG images. It is usual that once a camera is added to ACR it will remain so cameras such as the Pentax K100D (2006 vintage) are still included

The Pentax K5 Adobe profiles seems to follow this with profiles such as monochrome, landscape, neutral, portrait, standard and Vivid. I rarely use these presets when editing or access to a K5, so have no way of knowing how close to camera settings for JPEG these are. Past experience with other mnfctr. suggest Adobe get quite close.

Anyway just to double check I downloaded a K5 raw and attach the following screen shots. Hope it is of some help

mlaird · 11-06-2018, 05:17 AM

The main thing I'm interested in is being able to see my photos with Pentax's color profile as well as with Adobe's standardized one. Is it possible to shoot a DNG photo, then pull the embedded profile out of that with Adobe's profile editor, and save it into LR as another option I can apply to all the PEF photos I've already taken? I think that would do the trick for now.

It's really only once in a while where I just can't get the look I want by changing things within Adobe's standard profile. When I ran into that a while back with my K20D, I just switched to the Pentax profile and the look I wanted for some really blue water was there. Adobe's profile tinted the water a bit too green and desaturated it a bit, at least for that shot.

Thanks for the tips!

---------- Post added 11-06-2018 at 07:34 AM ----------

Originally posted by TonyW

If I understand correctly you are wanting to get the choice of picture control as applied to the JPEG view in camera with your raw images?

I suspect you may find more Pentax profiles if you look in the Adobe Camera Raw Standard folder located (on my system):
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic CC\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for - Pentax's color rendering choices, and not just Adobe's standard. Unfortunately, while I have those Adobe standard profiles on my system, I don't have any Pentax color profiles. Note that in your screenshot, all the profile options are Adobe's. I don't think any of them are following Pentax's colorimetry, and that's what I'm interested in.

If you look in ...\CameraProfiles\Camera, do you see any camera-specific Pentax profiles for the K-5? I don't. I am using LR 6.14, not the CC version, so our copies are slightly different, but I suspect this is just an Adobe choice across the board to not bother providing Pentax camera profiles for the K-5.

TonyW · 11-06-2018, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by mlaird

....
Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for - Pentax's color rendering choices, and not just Adobe's standard. Unfortunately, while I have those Adobe standard profiles on my system, I don't have any Pentax color profiles. Note that in your screenshot, all the profile options are Adobe's. I don't think any of them are following Pentax's colorimetry, and that's what I'm interested in.

If you look in ...\CameraProfiles\Camera, do you see any camera-specific Pentax profiles for the K-5? I don't. I am using LR 6.14, not the CC version, so our copies are slightly different, but I suspect this is just an Adobe choice across the board to not bother providing Pentax camera profiles for the K-5.

Yes, I understand that you are looking specifically for Pentax profiles for the K5. You are correct there are no profiles listed as K5 in the CameraProfiles\Camera folder only those mentioned in my post in the Adobe settings.

The Adobe profile for the K5 is what Adobe felt represented a reasonable starting point for anyone shooting in raw. Some systems Adobe decided to mimic the mnfctr. presets for JPEG, obviously not all.

I have no idea how K5 image presets look but the point is you do have choices for rendering even if they are from Adobe. If none of them fit the bill you could edit a close one and save as a preset or invest a little time using DNG converter as posted earlier

stevebrot · 11-06-2018, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by TonyW

he Pentax K5 Adobe profiles seems to follow this with profiles such as monochrome, landscape, neutral, portrait, standard and Vivid.

The new "Adobe profiles" are a strange feature. They are more akin to presets in that they are apparently applied as post-process on the rendered RAW (i.e. not ACR profiles) and are not camera-specific in the same way as Adobe Standard.* Camera profiles are applied as part of the rendering by ACR and are always camera-specific. FWIW, the new Adobe profiles are not available in LR 6, the software being used by the OP.

The camera-specific profiles (prefixed as "Camera") available for the K-3II and K-1/K-1ii, as well as those for the older models up through the K-7, were apparently developed by Pentax for inclusion by Adobe with other profiles used by the Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) engine. They provide results similar to the in-camera custom image settings. For the K-3II, those consist of Camera Bright, Camera Landscape, Camera Natural, Camera Portrait, and Camera Vivid.

Steve

* I don't have a CC subscription, but that is my understanding based on information on the Web.

stevebrot · 11-06-2018, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by TonyW

I have no idea how K5 image presets look

Bundled image presets are different than camera profiles. For DNG from the K-5 on LR 6 there are only two choices for camera profiles, Adobe Standard and Embedded. For PEF from the K-5 there is only one choice, Adobe Standard.

Originally posted by mlaird

Is it possible to shoot a DNG photo, then pull the embedded profile out of that with Adobe's profile editor, and save it into LR as another option I can apply to all the PEF photos I've already taken?

The answer is a qualified "yes". Camera-specific custom profiles are available to PEF as well as DNG. There is also a tool to extract the embedded profile from a K-5 DNG and save that profile as a .dcp file in your user-specific profile directory used by Lightroom. The results will be different than Adobe Standard for the PEF, but will not reflect any custom image or similar settings. Rather, what you will get will be equivalent to the camera-produced DNG using the embedded profile. My experience is that Adobe standard generally works better for my purposes.

If you wish to pursue, the appropriate tool (dcpTool) and documentation are available at the link below. I have used it to edit K-3II .dcp files for use with the K-3. Your task is quite a bit easier. May the force be with you.

dcpTool | Introduction

Steve

TonyW · 11-06-2018, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The new "Adobe profiles" are a strange feature. They are more akin to presets in that they are apparently applied as post-process on the rendered RAW (i.e. not ACR profiles) and are not camera-specific in the same way as Adobe Standard.* Camera profiles are applied as part of the rendering by ACR and are always camera-specific. FWIW, the new Adobe profiles are not available in LR 6, the software being used by the OP.

The camera-specific profiles (prefixed as "Camera") available for the K-3II and K-1/K-1ii, as well as those for the older models up through the K-7, were apparently developed by Pentax for inclusion by Adobe with other profiles used by the Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) engine. They provide results similar to the in-camera custom image settings. For the K-3II, those consist of Camera Bright, Camera Landscape, Camera Natural, Camera Portrait, and Camera Vivid.

Steve

* I don't have a CC subscription, but that is my understanding based on information on the Web.

Interesting, I have not really considered where the rendering occurs when selecting , but a quick look indicates that the rendering not apparent looking at the sliders in LR or ACR as there are no changes. Therefore my suspicion is that the required Adobe profile instructions as listed in the ACR Lightroom Profile tab ( are applied to the raw data directly prior to re-rendering the raw data). Could be wrong of course

Maybe moot point as it seems we are looking at LR6 but in CC for supported cameras the profiles listed as standard are the Adobe ones then hitting the browse button brings up all available for the particular camera, including a section listed as Camera Matching (Adobe effort to mimic the camera preset for JPEG). The 645 is fully supported including the camera matching versions.

Had not realised that Adobe had not really bothered much with Pentax profiles until fairly recent models. My understanding is that Adobe needs to get sample cameras to play with to produce their ACR profiles, particularly those that 'match' the in camera settings would need this.

mlaird · 11-07-2018, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The answer is a qualified "yes". Camera-specific custom profiles are available to PEF as well as DNG. There is also a tool to extract the embedded profile from a K-5 DNG and save that profile as a .dcp file in your user-specific profile directory used by Lightroom. The results will be different than Adobe Standard for the PEF, but will not reflect any custom image or similar settings. Rather, what you will get will be equivalent to the camera-produced DNG using the embedded profile. My experience is that Adobe standard generally works better for my purposes.

Thanks - I think this is what I'm going to try, when I can find the time to experiment.

I agree that usually, the Adobe Standard works fine for my purposes. It seems to be more neutral and accurate than some of the in-camera profiles. The only reason I want to play with the other profiles is in certain cases where I'm having trouble getting the look I want, and Pentax's profile seems to be giving me the colors I'm looking for when Adobe's isn't. I'll have to see if I can dig up the example I'm thinking of. It's printed an hanging on my wall, but I don't have a digital copy near me at the moment :-).

11-05-2018, 06:30 PM	#1
mlaird Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New England, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 75	K-5 and Adobe color profiles in Lightroom 6 I shot some nice fall foliage pictures recently, and as I was adjusting them, I decided to try switching from the Adobe Standard color profile to a Pentax one. I was disappointed to find that I have no options to pick from! I haven't done this in quite a while, and it turns out the last shot I adjusted the color profile on was from my old K20D, which has a camera-specific profile in Lightroom and Camera Raw. I looked in my profiles directory (C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom\Resources\CameraProfiles\Camera), and found that Adobe provided profiles for the K10D, K20D, K200D, K-7, K-3 II, and K-1. My K-5 and many other Pentax cameras aren't included. Am I just out of luck in terms of an Adobe-provided camera-specific profile? I thought I would at least get an embedded profile from the camera itself, but I'm out of luck on that front as well. I always shoot RAW, but I have also always been shooting PEF. Is an embedded profile only added to DNG files, and not to PEF files? Is there any other way I can try out the Pentax color profile instead of Adobe's standard one?

11-06-2018, 03:40 AM	#5
TonyW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 706	If I understand correctly you are wanting to get the choice of picture control as applied to the JPEG view in camera with your raw images? I suspect you may find more Pentax profiles if you look in the Adobe Camera Raw Standard folder located (on my system): C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic CC\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard Once a camera has been added to the ACR profiles it is usual to see not only Adobe interpretation of a basic raw rendering but also their interpretation of the camera presets applied to JPEG images. It is usual that once a camera is added to ACR it will remain so cameras such as the Pentax K100D (2006 vintage) are still included The Pentax K5 Adobe profiles seems to follow this with profiles such as monochrome, landscape, neutral, portrait, standard and Vivid. I rarely use these presets when editing or access to a K5, so have no way of knowing how close to camera settings for JPEG these are. Past experience with other mnfctr. suggest Adobe get quite close. Anyway just to double check I downloaded a K5 raw and attach the following screen shots. Hope it is of some help Last edited by TonyW; 04-14-2019 at 01:02 PM.

11-06-2018, 07:29 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by TonyW he Pentax K5 Adobe profiles seems to follow this with profiles such as monochrome, landscape, neutral, portrait, standard and Vivid. The new "Adobe profiles" are a strange feature. They are more akin to presets in that they are apparently applied as post-process on the rendered RAW (i.e. not ACR profiles) and are not camera-specific in the same way as Adobe Standard.* Camera profiles are applied as part of the rendering by ACR and are always camera-specific. FWIW, the new Adobe profiles are not available in LR 6, the software being used by the OP. The camera-specific profiles (prefixed as "Camera") available for the K-3II and K-1/K-1ii, as well as those for the older models up through the K-7, were apparently developed by Pentax for inclusion by Adobe with other profiles used by the Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) engine. They provide results similar to the in-camera custom image settings. For the K-3II, those consist of Camera Bright, Camera Landscape, Camera Natural, Camera Portrait, and Camera Vivid. Steve * I don't have a CC subscription, but that is my understanding based on information on the Web. Last edited by stevebrot; 11-06-2018 at 08:07 AM.

11-06-2018, 08:01 AM	#9
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by TonyW I have no idea how K5 image presets look Bundled image presets are different than camera profiles. For DNG from the K-5 on LR 6 there are only two choices for camera profiles, Adobe Standard and Embedded. For PEF from the K-5 there is only one choice, Adobe Standard. Originally posted by mlaird Is it possible to shoot a DNG photo, then pull the embedded profile out of that with Adobe's profile editor, and save it into LR as another option I can apply to all the PEF photos I've already taken? The answer is a qualified "yes". Camera-specific custom profiles are available to PEF as well as DNG. There is also a tool to extract the embedded profile from a K-5 DNG and save that profile as a .dcp file in your user-specific profile directory used by Lightroom. The results will be different than Adobe Standard for the PEF, but will not reflect any custom image or similar settings. Rather, what you will get will be equivalent to the camera-produced DNG using the embedded profile. My experience is that Adobe standard generally works better for my purposes. If you wish to pursue, the appropriate tool (dcpTool) and documentation are available at the link below. I have used it to edit K-3II .dcp files for use with the K-3. Your task is quite a bit easier. May the force be with you. dcpTool \| Introduction Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 11-06-2018 at 08:12 AM. Reason: completeness

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11-05-2018, 06:40 PM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mlaird Am I just out of luck in terms of an Adobe-provided camera-specific profile? Originally posted by mlaird Is an embedded profile only added to DNG files, and not to PEF files? The answer is yes on both counts. Embedded profiles are a feature of DNG, but not PEF. Profiles other than Adobe Standard disappeared after the K-7 and did not make a new appearance until the K-3II and are currently limited to the K-1 and K-1ii. You can purchase camera profiles from third-party sources or you can make your own using Adobe's DNG Profile Editor (works for PEF too). Steve

11-05-2018, 06:50 PM	#3
Fauxton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 100	Originally posted by mlaird I shot some nice fall foliage pictures recently, and as I was adjusting them, I decided to try switching from the Adobe Standard color profile to a Pentax one. I was disappointed to find that I have no options to pick from! I haven't done this in quite a while, and it turns out the last shot I adjusted the color profile on was from my old K20D, which has a camera-specific profile in Lightroom and Camera Raw. I looked in my profiles directory (C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom\Resources\CameraProfiles\Camera), and found that Adobe provided profiles for the K10D, K20D, K200D, K-7, K-3 II, and K-1. My K-5 and many other Pentax cameras aren't included. Am I just out of luck in terms of an Adobe-provided camera-specific profile? I thought I would at least get an embedded profile from the camera itself, but I'm out of luck on that front as well. I always shoot RAW, but I have also always been shooting PEF. Is an embedded profile only added to DNG files, and not to PEF files? Is there any other way I can try out the Pentax color profile instead of Adobe's standard one? As SteveBrot says - you can find the DNG Profile Editor here -> Adobe - DNG Profile Editor : For Windows : DNG Profile Editor 1.0.4

11-05-2018, 06:51 PM	#4
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	This may be an option for you: Huelight Pentax Camera Profiles

11-06-2018, 05:17 AM	#6
mlaird Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New England, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 75 Original Poster	The main thing I'm interested in is being able to see my photos with Pentax's color profile as well as with Adobe's standardized one. Is it possible to shoot a DNG photo, then pull the embedded profile out of that with Adobe's profile editor, and save it into LR as another option I can apply to all the PEF photos I've already taken? I think that would do the trick for now. It's really only once in a while where I just can't get the look I want by changing things within Adobe's standard profile. When I ran into that a while back with my K20D, I just switched to the Pentax profile and the look I wanted for some really blue water was there. Adobe's profile tinted the water a bit too green and desaturated it a bit, at least for that shot. Thanks for the tips! ---------- Post added 11-06-2018 at 07:34 AM ---------- Originally posted by TonyW If I understand correctly you are wanting to get the choice of picture control as applied to the JPEG view in camera with your raw images? I suspect you may find more Pentax profiles if you look in the Adobe Camera Raw Standard folder located (on my system): C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic CC\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for - Pentax's color rendering choices, and not just Adobe's standard. Unfortunately, while I have those Adobe standard profiles on my system, I don't have any Pentax color profiles. Note that in your screenshot, all the profile options are Adobe's. I don't think any of them are following Pentax's colorimetry, and that's what I'm interested in. If you look in ...\CameraProfiles\Camera, do you see any camera-specific Pentax profiles for the K-5? I don't. I am using LR 6.14, not the CC version, so our copies are slightly different, but I suspect this is just an Adobe choice across the board to not bother providing Pentax camera profiles for the K-5.

11-06-2018, 06:25 AM	#7
TonyW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 706	Originally posted by mlaird .... Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for - Pentax's color rendering choices, and not just Adobe's standard. Unfortunately, while I have those Adobe standard profiles on my system, I don't have any Pentax color profiles. Note that in your screenshot, all the profile options are Adobe's. I don't think any of them are following Pentax's colorimetry, and that's what I'm interested in. If you look in ...\CameraProfiles\Camera, do you see any camera-specific Pentax profiles for the K-5? I don't. I am using LR 6.14, not the CC version, so our copies are slightly different, but I suspect this is just an Adobe choice across the board to not bother providing Pentax camera profiles for the K-5. Yes, I understand that you are looking specifically for Pentax profiles for the K5. You are correct there are no profiles listed as K5 in the CameraProfiles\Camera folder only those mentioned in my post in the Adobe settings. The Adobe profile for the K5 is what Adobe felt represented a reasonable starting point for anyone shooting in raw. Some systems Adobe decided to mimic the mnfctr. presets for JPEG, obviously not all. I have no idea how K5 image presets look but the point is you do have choices for rendering even if they are from Adobe. If none of them fit the bill you could edit a close one and save as a preset or invest a little time using DNG converter as posted earlier

11-06-2018, 10:28 AM	#10
TonyW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 706	Originally posted by stevebrot The new "Adobe profiles" are a strange feature. They are more akin to presets in that they are apparently applied as post-process on the rendered RAW (i.e. not ACR profiles) and are not camera-specific in the same way as Adobe Standard.* Camera profiles are applied as part of the rendering by ACR and are always camera-specific. FWIW, the new Adobe profiles are not available in LR 6, the software being used by the OP. The camera-specific profiles (prefixed as "Camera") available for the K-3II and K-1/K-1ii, as well as those for the older models up through the K-7, were apparently developed by Pentax for inclusion by Adobe with other profiles used by the Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) engine. They provide results similar to the in-camera custom image settings. For the K-3II, those consist of Camera Bright, Camera Landscape, Camera Natural, Camera Portrait, and Camera Vivid. Steve * I don't have a CC subscription, but that is my understanding based on information on the Web. Interesting, I have not really considered where the rendering occurs when selecting , but a quick look indicates that the rendering not apparent looking at the sliders in LR or ACR as there are no changes. Therefore my suspicion is that the required Adobe profile instructions as listed in the ACR Lightroom Profile tab ( are applied to the raw data directly prior to re-rendering the raw data). Could be wrong of course Maybe moot point as it seems we are looking at LR6 but in CC for supported cameras the profiles listed as standard are the Adobe ones then hitting the browse button brings up all available for the particular camera, including a section listed as Camera Matching (Adobe effort to mimic the camera preset for JPEG). The 645 is fully supported including the camera matching versions. Had not realised that Adobe had not really bothered much with Pentax profiles until fairly recent models. My understanding is that Adobe needs to get sample cameras to play with to produce their ACR profiles, particularly those that 'match' the in camera settings would need this.

11-07-2018, 12:05 PM	#11
mlaird Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New England, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 75 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot The answer is a qualified "yes". Camera-specific custom profiles are available to PEF as well as DNG. There is also a tool to extract the embedded profile from a K-5 DNG and save that profile as a .dcp file in your user-specific profile directory used by Lightroom. The results will be different than Adobe Standard for the PEF, but will not reflect any custom image or similar settings. Rather, what you will get will be equivalent to the camera-produced DNG using the embedded profile. My experience is that Adobe standard generally works better for my purposes. Thanks - I think this is what I'm going to try, when I can find the time to experiment. I agree that usually, the Adobe Standard works fine for my purposes. It seems to be more neutral and accurate than some of the in-camera profiles. The only reason I want to play with the other profiles is in certain cases where I'm having trouble getting the look I want, and Pentax's profile seems to be giving me the colors I'm looking for when Adobe's isn't. I'll have to see if I can dig up the example I'm thinking of. It's printed an hanging on my wall, but I don't have a digital copy near me at the moment :-).