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11-10-2018, 05:42 PM   #1
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LR Before/After for Brushes?

As I'm starting to use LR more and try and wean myself off PS/Plugins, I've noticed what I consider to being a pretty big flaw with their brush set. It appears I cannot toggle a before and after with a brush stroke adjustment? Like you can hide pins etc, but if say you take a Clarity brush, and make tweaks to it by including Shadows, Sharpening etc, work on an area, then you want to see a before and after of that work, it doesn't appear you can? You can do a before and after but it's GLOBAL to all changes made in an image up to that brush point, hardly helpful.

This thread mentions the same issue here;

Lightroom: Individual on/off toggles for adjustments | Photoshop Family Customer Community

Could it be you can use the History tool somehow to assist here? I cannot figure out how..

TIA

Bruce

11-10-2018, 06:56 PM   #2
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In the develop module open up the history panel on the left. You can step back to any point in the edit process. From that point you can recommence editing. The way I understand you keep all edits up to that point but lose anything later. I have not found a way to delete a single edit point and keep subsequent edits. Perhaps there is but I have not found it.
11-11-2018, 12:49 AM   #3
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if I understand you correctly, one work around might be that when you want to do new work with a brush that you want to compare, you duplicate the existing brush work, reset that duplication, and then do the sharpening etc in that duplicated overlay. Then to compare you can reset that brush or bring it back.
11-11-2018, 07:28 AM   #4
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Perhaps you're trying to get Lightroom do things you still need Photoshop for? Non-destructive edits via layers can be switched "off" in PS at will.

11-11-2018, 08:08 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bruce Clark Quote
In the develop module open up the history panel on the left. You can step back to any point in the edit process. From that point you can recommence editing. The way I understand you keep all edits up to that point but lose anything later. I have not found a way to delete a single edit point and keep subsequent edits. Perhaps there is but I have not found it.
Great summary! Yes you can step backwards and forwards in the History Panel, but not delete a single step. On the other hand with PS I believe that you can delete individual steps in the History Panel, or alternatively put each adjustment on a separate layer that can be turned on or off, or even deleted.
11-11-2018, 10:06 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Perhaps you're trying to get Lightroom do things you still need Photoshop for? Non-destructive edits via layers can be switched "off" in PS at will.
Exactly. PS is needed for any local adjustments that require a lot of care.

The interaction between LR and PS is seamless though, that's one great advantage.
11-11-2018, 06:45 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bruce Clark Quote
In the develop module open up the history panel on the left. You can step back to any point in the edit process. From that point you can recommence editing. The way I understand you keep all edits up to that point but lose anything later. I have not found a way to delete a single edit point and keep subsequent edits. Perhaps there is but I have not found it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dericali Quote
if I understand you correctly, one work around might be that when you want to do new work with a brush that you want to compare, you duplicate the existing brush work, reset that duplication, and then do the sharpening etc in that duplicated overlay. Then to compare you can reset that brush or bring it back.
QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Perhaps you're trying to get Lightroom do things you still need Photoshop for? Non-destructive edits via layers can be switched "off" in PS at will.
QuoteOriginally posted by lsimpkins Quote
Great summary! Yes you can step backwards and forwards in the History Panel, but not delete a single step. On the other hand with PS I believe that you can delete individual steps in the History Panel, or alternatively put each adjustment on a separate layer that can be turned on or off, or even deleted.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dericali Quote
Exactly. PS is needed for any local adjustments that require a lot of care.

The interaction between LR and PS is seamless though, that's one great advantage.
Thank you all for your replies.

Yes I am aware that PS is better for this kind of thing, but here's where I am at with things. I'm trying to move away from using external plugins (even PS) if certain tasks can be completed within LR for two simple reasons... time and image syncing.

My PC is not the most robust powerful machine, I mean it gets the job done, I'm not overly suffering brush lag strokes or anything, but firing up an 'Edit In' option (be it PS or an external Plugin) does lengthen the time significantly in front of the computer due to waiting time for the application or image to load into the application as well as the changes made in those external applications are not synchronised throughout a set after.

LR is very handy in that I can make changes to an image and apply those changes to a bunch of images quickly. So now I am exploring the brush tool more intimately.

For example, I can use 3rd party plugins like 'Topaz Clarity' to boost clarity on a section of an image, but all that takes time. Using the Clarity tool in LR does not do the same thing, but it can resemble that affect closely if in addition to boosting clarity with the brush I am also tweaking other settings such as Sharpness, Shadows, Exposure, Highlights etc (basically fine tuning a more pleasing clarity boosting brush).

The issue is, brushing and making all these individual changes to the brush is hard to judge sometimes if I am heading in the right direction or not. Toggling a Before/After doesn't help as it makes the whole image revert backwards... or does it? If I 'Export' or 'Save' before attempting the brush part, when toggling the Before and After, does it now simply revert back to the last Save/Export point vs going right back to the start of the whole image manipulation?

Looking at the history tool I'm not sure it helps that much, I mean it helps to go back a step, but what I'm after is actually seeing the difference on a single brush tool that has a few things tweaked on it. I think the real answer is to actually just delete it once done, then Undo that delete to put it back again, that seems to be the only real 'before and after' in a set up like this.

I can now for example Sync an image with a brush I have developed, get that same brush (without the necessity of creating a preset for it, as it may be a one off brush that suits this series of images only and I don't want to end up clogging my brush presets with a bunch of one off brushes etc) and then on the synced images, take that brush, move to it's new location, delete where it doesn't need to be and retouch the areas it does, etc etc. It's definitely handy to be able to Sync every aspect of an image, even brushes because you can easily move those brush strokes elsewhere, or delete them all but still have the sliders where you want them and now touch up that new area etc.
5 Hours Ago - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Looking at the history tool I'm not sure it helps that much, I mean it helps to go back a step, but what I'm after is actually seeing the difference on a single brush tool that has a few things tweaked on it.
You should be able to define any point in the history as the "before" reference. Right-click on an entry in the history and then select "Copy History Step Settings to Before".

Pressing the "before/after" key ("") then allows you to toggle between the image with all edits applied vs with all previous edits applied except your last tweaks (or even combination of of tweaks, depending on where you set the "before" reference in the history.

The fact that Adobe still does not support deletion of edits within the history is very deplorable. The parametric editing model of Lightroom implies a performance hit during editing but makes deleting editing steps in the history very easy to implement.

Personally, I'm glad that I separated with LR when they introduced version 4.0. Much happier now with Capture One.

8 Minutes Ago   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
You should be able to define any point in the history as the "before" reference. Right-click on an entry in the history and then select "Copy History Step Settings to Before".

Pressing the "before/after" key ("") then allows you to toggle between the image with all edits applied vs with all previous edits applied except your last tweaks (or even combination of of tweaks, depending on where you set the "before" reference in the history.

The fact that Adobe still does not support deletion of edits within the history is very deplorable. The parametric editing model of Lightroom implies a performance hit during editing but makes deleting editing steps in the history very easy to implement.

Personally, I'm glad that I separated with LR when they introduced version 4.0. Much happier now with Capture One.
Cool, I'll try that ta,
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