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01-29-2019, 12:31 AM - 1 Like   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
For most people, I think going overboard in PP is part of the learning process.
Guilty as charged. I do that almost every time I discover a new way of doing something or a new tool. It's very hard to know where the limit is without crossing it.

That said, some people never seem to come back from their crossing Or to put it another way - tastes differ. And why not - it's your image and you can do with it what you want. If I don't like your editing, well, I move on to the next image. Problem solved.

01-29-2019, 03:01 AM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

We used to occasionally discus the garishness of "Elvis art" done on black velvet... now we can say it was over the top, but someone somewhere was making really good money selling those images. At some point, you have to ask, if people like it enough to pay for it, who cares what some internet experts opinion of it is? This is some serious nose in the air stuff. Are folks saying we should have some kind of police state where folks with those sensibilities can't buy what they want. And that people who create those types of image should be some how educated? I would suggest an education in tolerance for the snooty might be more appropriate.

For those of us for whom photograph is the pursuit of "extraordinary light" where we are actually looking for natural light in nature that some would consider over the top, you never here us telling other their work is flat and boring. Yet that type of person is more than will to share their opinion that other's work is "over the top."

It's just so odd that people who look at other folks taste as garish don't realize that the opposite opinion, that their work is flat and boring, is equally true to those people, and that the opinions of those they consider ignorant are reversed for those people standing on the other side of the divide. By your own judgements you are judged. I have not noticed that people with garish taste are in someway otherwise lacking as human beings. It's not some kind of thing where you can say "I can tell you aren't good person because you like Velvet Elvis art." People who get all superior about this stuff need an attitude adjustment.
Funny you mention the velvet paintings, because that is what over processed photos remind me of. Let me hastily add that your PP always show (IMO) high standards, very tasteful and restrained. About standards of taste: Many of us could pick a hooker form the way she dresses and carries herself, lacking grace and pleasant speech. Still, it is obvious that many also find that attractive, and place no value on refined manners, speech and dress. That said, I do believe that there are objective standards of taste. Sometimes it takes effort and education to appreciate good work. And sometimes, what is called art, is trash. Sadly, some snob pretentious experts pretend trash is art. Witness the museum in Canada spending millions on a painting consisting of three stripes.
01-29-2019, 09:13 AM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
That said, I do believe that there are objective standards of taste. Sometimes it takes effort and education to appreciate good work. And sometimes, what is called art, is trash. Sadly, some snob pretentious experts pretend trash is art. Witness the museum in Canada spending millions on a painting consisting of three stripes.
An article about the three stripes and another abstract purchased with public money: Newmanís revenge: The value of Voice of Fire is scorching hot | Ottawa Citizen. The short version - these two abstracts were about $1.8 million each and estimates these days put them at over $40mil each (values depend on who you talk to). Whether the museum curators were pretentious experts or just savvy in the methods of acquiring things the deep pocketed pretentious experts will value is another question
01-29-2019, 10:33 AM   #79
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People who value art by the number of strokes are probably the same as those who over cook their raws and buy velvet Elvis art. Or at least they are on the same spectrum. This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with liking velvet Elvis. Much recent art, and I mean world class art, is currently on the velvet Elvis spectrum. It is however used knowingly and understood in the context of art history and culture.

Over processed photos are not considered tasteful. Being tasteful is very dangerous if you want to make it (big) as an artist. Selling at fairs (unless its Basel or Frieze) is another matter completely. What is art is defined by the art world in a process not dissimilated to peer review. Photography still has some difficulty to be accepted as art. Much famous photography will never qualify as art or be shown in a real art gallery/museum. Its not an arbitrary process nor is it a perfect one.

Over processing is often a beginners mistake ,a populist or crassly commercial move or the result of laziness. It can also be a result of the opposite of all the above.

01-30-2019, 04:36 AM   #80
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Reminds me of a commercial that was on TV like, fifty years ago, in which the announcer says, "Sorry, Charlie, people don't want tuna with good taste, they want tuna that tastes good."
01-30-2019, 06:37 PM - 2 Likes   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Reminds me of a commercial that was on TV like, fifty years ago, in which the announcer says, "Sorry, Charlie, people don't want tuna with good taste, they want tuna that tastes good."
As I recall, Charlie was strutting his stuff in the mid-50s (in B&W), so add another decade.

kas -- no longer a spring chicken (of the sea)
01-31-2019, 03:59 AM   #82
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Or as Frank Zappa said, on "200 Motels", "It's just a sealed-tuna-sandwich, from another catering service."
01-31-2019, 06:55 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
As I recall, Charlie was strutting his stuff in the mid-50s (in B&W), so add another decade.

kas -- no longer a spring chicken (of the sea)
Wikipedia says 1961 was the creation date, but that's older than I realized. Charlie the Tuna - Wikipedia

01-31-2019, 04:28 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Wikipedia says 1961 was the creation date, but that's older than I realized. Charlie the Tuna - Wikipedia
The year 1961 is supported by Starkist's web site, but I have sent a message to the authority on childhood trivia in my family, my sister, and will report on any feedback.
01-31-2019, 04:45 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
The year 1961 is supported by Starkist's web site, but I have sent a message to the authority on childhood trivia in my family, my sister, and will report on any feedback.
LOL - awesome! Wiki is not infallible.
02-01-2019, 08:14 AM - 1 Like   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
LOL - awesome! Wiki is not infallible.
Sister reports no memory of 'Charlie' in the '50s. I guess we will have to believe in corporate memory for this fishy story.

(My eyebrow remains raised, however, by Starkist describing that their PR contractor was engaged with this task in 1958, the PR guy claiming immediately knowing which cartoon house to go to, but the less than 30-second spot was not shown until 1961. A full length high resolution anime movie could be designed, directed, drawn and shot in that much time, or six dozen 24-minute anime episodes at somewhat lower quality (allocate about 5 minutes to repeated opening and closing animation.) Internal corporate issues might have been involved that would be interesting to management historians.)
02-01-2019, 09:11 AM   #87
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do post-processing or not? - all this is a creative approach of the photographer

Actually, post-processing can improve the picture, make it much better (color, cropping and so on)

Can you imagine what will happen if people (especially women) stop using cosmetics? Do not comb your hair, don't cut your hair, do not wash your face, do not brush your teeth of course, it will look much more natural ... but will it be good for everyone? ... maybe someone will get better, but someone will not feel good, he will feel that something should be added. Of course, this is a joke, and just like in every good joke there's a sliver of truth, Every good lie has one, too..
Of course everything should be considered in a certain context.
My friend he is not engaged in post-processing, he set up his camera so that it gets great colors...the camera's doing it for him right now...But I often do post-processing (though not always). I mostly use Lightroom for editing
if I don’t like my photos (and I don’t often like them; unsatisfactory), I do post-processing — for example, cropping, setting white balance, etc. I’m wondering how the image changes.

Too much postprocessing? It all depends on your perception.

Last edited by Martin Stu; 02-01-2019 at 10:13 AM.
02-01-2019, 10:59 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
Sister reports no memory of 'Charlie' in the '50s. I guess we will have to believe in corporate memory for this fishy story.

(My eyebrow remains raised, however, by Starkist describing that their PR contractor was engaged with this task in 1958, the PR guy claiming immediately knowing which cartoon house to go to, but the less than 30-second spot was not shown until 1961. A full length high resolution anime movie could be designed, directed, drawn and shot in that much time, or six dozen 24-minute anime episodes at somewhat lower quality (allocate about 5 minutes to repeated opening and closing animation.) Internal corporate issues might have been involved that would be interesting to management historians.)
I'm betting a committee was involved... group decisions are slow.
02-04-2019, 08:44 PM   #89
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Ansel shows you how he did it way back yonder......
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02-05-2019, 04:20 AM   #90
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Post processing is all about choices. Some people's choices I don't appreciate as much as others. I'm not a big fan of highly saturated images. I also don't really like really dark black and white images with the contrast turned way up that look sort of Noire-ish. But the person developing these images does like that style or is experimenting and often gets plenty of positive feedback on the internet.

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