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02-21-2019, 10:04 PM   #1
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LR>PS and a change in Saturation and WB slightly?

I have noticed an oddity for the past few months that is slowly irritating me.

When I load a raw file in LR, edit it, and then 'Edit In>Photoshop' the image changes once in PS.

I'm not the only user to report this issue, I saw a thread yonks ago and a guy recommended to get the Saturation lowered to around -15 to get something back to what LR had the edit as, he's not wrong, I think that's about right (at least for me).

I've recently discovered with my LR preset pack RNI (Really Nice Images), that if I select a Black and White film simulation preset it turns my image (obviously) black and what, I can even see in LR that I am in the 'Black and White' section (ie it's not a saturation decrease). However if I want to further edit this monochrome shot in PS it turns into colour
And when I turn it black and white in PS, I can see it's not quite the same temperature (could be grey in LR and appears slightly Sepia etc in PS).

Something is definitely not right...

EDIT: I did a little further testing and can see that it has nothing to do with RNI presets. For example if I load the raw file straight into LR, click 'Black & White' for 'Treatment:' and then Edit In>PS the image is still in colour.

I do have an oddity in that it seems a little random when I get the pop up window to ask if I want to carry the Edits from LR across to PS, but all other options are greyed out anyway and unselectable, I always say yes.

This article talks about possible method to resolve it, I have done all those things and confirm it's as the article says. What's really interesting is the comment suggestion, see how many others seem to be in the same boat as me...

https://lightroomkillertips.com/keeping-your-color-consistent-between-lightroom-and-photoshop/


Anyone experienced what I'm talking about before?


TIA!

Bruce


Last edited by BruceBanner; 02-22-2019 at 05:04 PM.
02-22-2019, 01:09 AM   #2
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Have you got Lr set up to use AdobeRGB rather than sRGB colour space? I donít use Lr but when I first started using the Camera Raw (the heart of Lr) ->Ps route on an extensive basis, it was set by default to AdobeRGB so I changed it, and havenít noticed any issues.
02-22-2019, 01:26 AM   #3
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Two thoughts.

1 - In the external editor section of Lightroom's preferences you should select ProPhoto RGB as the colour profile to pass over to Photoshop.
2 - When you send a photo from Lightroom to Photoshop you should use the "Edit with Lightroom Adjustments" the top option in the menu that Lightroom presents.

Regards

Chris
02-22-2019, 02:17 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
When I load a raw file in LR, edit it, and then 'Edit In>Photoshop' the image changes once in PS.
Bruce, when the image opens in PS is it opening in Camera RAW ?

There has always been a bug when selecting a RAW file in LR and using that command to open it in PS it would not open in Camera RAW.

Both LR and PS have the same RAW converter engine although the interfaces are different. I suggest you stick to one or the other. Then once you have your RAW conversion done save the image as a TIFF. You can then do further editing in PS working on the TIFF file.

02-26-2019, 04:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
When I load a raw file in LR, edit it, and then 'Edit In>Photoshop' the image changes once in PS.
QuoteOriginally posted by seventhdr Quote
Two thoughts.

1 - In the external editor section of Lightroom's preferences you should select ProPhoto RGB as the colour profile to pass over to Photoshop.
2 - When you send a photo from Lightroom to Photoshop you should use the "Edit with Lightroom Adjustments" the top option in the menu that Lightroom presents.
Both of these suggestions should prove helpful. Lightroom uses the AdobeRGB for all of its modules with the exception of the Develop module. The Develop module uses a proprietary modification to ProPhoto RGB generally referred to as "Melissa RGB". There is a minimal color/contrast shift moving from Melissa RGB to ProPhoto RGB and potential for somewhat more going to AdobeRGB or sRGB.

There are a few other tweaks that might be done when using the "Edit in" feature, but these should help.


Steve
02-27-2019, 05:30 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Bruce, when the image opens in PS is it opening in Camera RAW ?

There has always been a bug when selecting a RAW file in LR and using that command to open it in PS it would not open in Camera RAW.

Both LR and PS have the same RAW converter engine although the interfaces are different. I suggest you stick to one or the other. Then once you have your RAW conversion done save the image as a TIFF. You can then do further editing in PS working on the TIFF file.
I think this is a good option. Once you feel like you have the raw conversion done, it is worth "Freezing" the edits by exporting a Tiff for work in Photoshop.

That being said, I learned that later on down the road, and I used to export to photoshop from Lightroom with few issues. The colorspace is key as is making sure Adobe Camera RAW is in a version that matches up with your LR. I only bring this up because I never went the subscription route and my version of LR uses an ACR vintage that is newer than the one in my Photoshop. If you are using the CC versions, that probably isn't an issue.
03-02-2019, 05:37 PM   #7
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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their suggestions and what not. I have not read properly yet all of the points and things to try, but suffice to say I think something pretty weird is going on for me... I mean who else imports a raw DNG into LR, toggles the image to Black and White (and does nothing else to the edit), Right clicks to the image>Edit In>Photoshop and then Photoshop converts it to colour again :/

I can confirm that ProPhotoRGB is consistent in the options of both LR and PS. I should have some time today to look into this issue more.

The only issue with exporting the image from LR to a tiff is I lose the ease of the 'Edit In' aspect of LR wouldn't I, I mean once I port across to PS from LR via the Edit In feature of LR, when I make my changes in PS and hit 'Save' the changes won't automatically port across to LR will they? (which is handy...)
03-04-2019, 12:20 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their suggestions and what not. I have not read properly yet all of the points and things to try, but suffice to say I think something pretty weird is going on for me... I mean who else imports a raw DNG into LR, toggles the image to Black and White (and does nothing else to the edit), Right clicks to the image>Edit In>Photoshop and then Photoshop converts it to colour again :/

I can confirm that ProPhotoRGB is consistent in the options of both LR and PS. I should have some time today to look into this issue more.

The only issue with exporting the image from LR to a tiff is I lose the ease of the 'Edit In' aspect of LR wouldn't I, I mean once I port across to PS from LR via the Edit In feature of LR, when I make my changes in PS and hit 'Save' the changes won't automatically port across to LR will they? (which is handy...)
When you export to tiff, that tiff file is added to your catalog. When you hit save in Photoshop, I believe LR will pick up those changes. However, there are probably caveats with how you have LR setup. For instance, do you have LR setup to automatically scan your folders for changes? That might play a factor if you don't. It's been a while, but I never automatically scanned my folders for changes, but if something wasn't picked up (or if I used a Save As to make an additional file in Photoshop), I would just refresh/rescan my folders and the file would be picked up pretty quickly. It wasn't automatic, but close enough for my liking.

Now, it does seem weird that you are editing the files and then you end up with a situation like you describe where a black and white file is reopened as color. I would assume that when you open a file in Photoshop it would open in Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) first and pick up all your LR edits, unless ACR is out of sync with regard to LR.

It also comes to my mind that perhaps LR needs to write the edits to XMP so that the edits get picked up in Photoshop/ACR. Photoshop probably doesn't access your LR catalog, which is by default where all develop settings are stored (and not the XMP record).

03-04-2019, 01:18 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
When you export to tiff, that tiff file is added to your catalog. When you hit save in Photoshop, I believe LR will pick up those changes. However, there are probably caveats with how you have LR setup. For instance, do you have LR setup to automatically scan your folders for changes? That might play a factor if you don't. It's been a while, but I never automatically scanned my folders for changes, but if something wasn't picked up (or if I used a Save As to make an additional file in Photoshop), I would just refresh/rescan my folders and the file would be picked up pretty quickly. It wasn't automatic, but close enough for my liking.

Now, it does seem weird that you are editing the files and then you end up with a situation like you describe where a black and white file is reopened as color. I would assume that when you open a file in Photoshop it would open in Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) first and pick up all your LR edits, unless ACR is out of sync with regard to LR.

It also comes to my mind that perhaps LR needs to write the edits to XMP so that the edits get picked up in Photoshop/ACR. Photoshop probably doesn't access your LR catalog, which is by default where all develop settings are stored (and not the XMP record).
Yeah LR isn't going to PS via ACR, it's Edit In>PS and straight to PS! I do recall it used to visit ACR briefly (and I'd have to 'Open Image/Accept or OK' or something from ACR to get into PS properly). How and why that stopped happening is beyond me
03-04-2019, 03:38 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Yeah LR isn't going to PS via ACR, it's Edit In>PS and straight to PS!
It is a bug that Adobe have been aware about for a while. One workaround was to choose "open as smart object in PS". I don't know if the bug has been fixed yet with the recent updates to PS/LR , but i have long stopped using that function.

ps. if you create a TIFF in LR and save it in LR first off, then any edits you do in PS will be automatically reflected in LR providing you don't change the file name.
03-04-2019, 06:17 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
It is a bug that Adobe have been aware about for a while. One workaround was to choose "open as smart object in PS". I don't know if the bug has been fixed yet with the recent updates to PS/LR , but i have long stopped using that function.

ps. if you create a TIFF in LR and save it in LR first off, then any edits you do in PS will be automatically reflected in LR providing you don't change the file name.
Thanks I'll try that.

Is there anyway to bring ACR back into the middle jump between LR>Edit In>PS (and have ACR open en route)? Maybe that will also fix it?
03-04-2019, 07:18 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Thanks I'll try that.

Is there anyway to bring ACR back into the middle jump between LR>Edit In>PS (and have ACR open en route)? Maybe that will also fix it?
That is exactly what they need to fix, so that you can click on a raw file in LR, "select edit in PS" and hey presto it opens in ACR in PS.

Going back to your original question however, even if the bug is fixed you may still have issues. If you edit a raw file in LR you are using the ACR engine to do so. If you then try and "edit in PS" you are trying to use the ACR engine again. What is PS supposed to do..... work off your half edited raw file or the original raw file ? Logical approach for me is to do the raw conversion in one program or the other. If you want to do further work in PS then create a TIFF.
03-05-2019, 09:07 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
That is exactly what they need to fix, so that you can click on a raw file in LR, "select edit in PS" and hey presto it opens in ACR in PS.

Going back to your original question however, even if the bug is fixed you may still have issues. If you edit a raw file in LR you are using the ACR engine to do so. If you then try and "edit in PS" you are trying to use the ACR engine again. What is PS supposed to do..... work off your half edited raw file or the original raw file ? Logical approach for me is to do the raw conversion in one program or the other. If you want to do further work in PS then create a TIFF.
Since LR and Photoshop both work under the ACR algorithm, what is supposed to happen is that when you edit a RAW in one file, all those edits are supposed to be reflected in both programs.

The thing I could see being a problem is in order to work, the edits are written into a space in the XMP record for the file. Seems simple enough, but the last I used LR, saving to the XMP record for files was not a default behavior. LR instead saves edits to its catalog, and Photoshop won't have access to that.

Now, I don't know the OP's situation or others', but perhaps forcing a write of the XMP metadata (right-click on the image and select the option) may force the expected behavior? Of course, a bug is a bug, and LR should force that to occur anyway if a user is choosing the edit in Photoshop option.

Otherwise, I've generally always worked from a Tiff as once I go to external programs (not necessarily just Photoshop), I like to have intermediate steps available because working from one file all the way through can be confusing if you don't remember. For instance, if I process a DNG file in LR, go to Photoshop and edit the same DNG. All along, I have one DNG. Questions I ask myself (rhetorical here): What happens if I forget that I made edits to the DNG in Photoshop, and I make more edits in LR? Or perhaps LR adds a new feature and I use it on the DNG? Am I editing the end product, or the intermediate product before I went to Photoshop? How do I track that?

I suppose I could dig in and find out, but I feel safer in my workflow exporting a new file and then working from there. I am a bit OCD about being able to step into a file at various stages, and once I am outside a RAW processor, I need new files to do that.
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