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03-21-2019, 11:32 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Exiftool can extract the full resolution preview, in ExifToolGui use "-b -jpgfromraw -w filename.jpg".
Been there, tried that. My full experience with using ExifTool for that purpose would take a lot of keystrokes. It is probably enough to say that there is more to a Pentax RAW than ExifTool is configured to extract.


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03-21-2019, 11:47 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
So can Instant Jpeg From Raw.
No longer available...


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03-21-2019, 11:48 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Been there, tried that.
Ahh, were you working with pef's or dng's? I've just tried both and ExifTool doesn't want to find the full res jpg from out of camera dng's, but it seems to handle pef's just fine. IJFR finds the full res from both pef and dng.

---------- Post added 03-21-19 at 02:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No longer available...
Whoops, I should have checked his website more carefully:

Instant JPEG from RAW ? Michael Tapes Design
03-21-2019, 11:58 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Ahh, were you working with pef's or dng's?
DNG...I will try IJFR.

QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Whoops, I should have checked his website more carefully:
Yay! Thanks!


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03-21-2019, 01:01 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
The JPEG preview included in the DNG or PEF RAW is only a small dimension JPG rendering - eg a K-3 6000x4000 pixel image DNG has a 50kb 720x480 pixel JPEG preview image embedded in it. You have to be sure that Faststone isn't just working off that.

Also for working with RAWs in Faststone make sure your setup is Faststone: Menu>Settings>View RAW files in: > Actual Size (slow). Ditto for 'Batch convert RAW files'. That might avoid Faststone working off the mini previews.
I'm pretty sure Faststone isn't showing 720x480, it even shows bottom left the file name and size dimensions etc, they appear to be full res. And viewing on a 43 inch 4k monitor and 100% zooming in etc, looks fine (I take it 720x480 would be bloody obvious when blown up large on a monitor like what I have).


QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Can't help with the Fastone settings I am afraid.

But a couple of points. The jpeg preview that is embedded in a raw file, is there so that the camera can display the image on the lcd screen. It also enables photo viewer apps to display a preview of the raw image. Raw files themselves DNG or PEF are not image files.

If you want to create a jpeg from a raw file, then you can use any raw converter to do so. If you want that jpeg to replicate the jpeg camera settings that were used when you took the shot, then you can do so with any raw converter that supports the Pentax profiles. Pentax camera utility is the obvious first choice, but Lightroom and Photoshop can do the same.

Hopefully someone else can chime in with a detailed description of those settings. But I would be wary of equating the output file size to quality. My recent portraits of Rio had 40MB raw files, and converting them to full size (7360*4912) jpegs using Silkypix DS Pro with a quality setting of 97% gives me a 5MB file.
Is this Pentax Digital Camera Utility you speak of?; Digital Camera Utility 5 Update for Windows : Software Downloads | RICOH IMAGING
Is it free? I've never used it. Someone else on facebook suggested that this program uses the camera image settings as the default Raw converter. I mean is it worth installing that program, chucking a few DNG files at it and see what Jpgs it spits out?

Thus far I cannot get LR or PS to show me the Jpg Preview of my RAW DNG files, how are you managing it? For example, if I took a RAW shot and deliberately chose my Custom Image settings to be set as 'BW' (Monochrome), the image of course still appears as monochrome on the back of the camera, and then even once ejected from the SD card and put in the PC and using FSIV I see the image as being monochrome, but then as soon as I fire the DNG up in LR it turns it back into colour because it see's it as a RAW file etc. Under the Camera Calibration tool in LR I can select 'Bright', 'Landscape' etc, even 'Embedded' but it's still showing me the image in colour, I can't seem to figure out how to tell LR to show me the Jpg Preview version

And yeh, I'm not overly fussed about the file size, part of my intention in making this post was to draw attention as to whether certain settings were valid or even necessary (from an editing and output perspective). Just adjusting the slider to 100 Quality in FSIV changed the output file from being around 5mb to 14mb, which is quite a change and pretty close to what the (in camera) Raw Development program was giving. It's just when I take that Jpg and get editing on it I'd like to feel as though I am handling the best Jpg I can get that's not missing information etc.


QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Are you sure Faststone is extracting the built-in jpeg previews and not generating new ones? There are programs that will extract these previews "as is", I've used "Instant JPEG from RAW", but depending on your use they might be unsuitable. The camera will generate a full resolution preview, but it adjusts the jpeg compression level and aims to keep the file size below a set amount. On my k5iis, the full sized preview was something like 1mb. Depending on the image content, you might end up with very noticeable compression artifacts.

What is your use for these jpegs?

As to faststone's options:

Quality level- there is a huge amount of diminishing returns in the higher quality levels. There is a great discussion and interactive examples from Lightroom here Jeffrey Friedl's Blog An Analysis of Lightroom JPEG Export Quality Settings. Do note that Lightroom's quality levels don't line up with Faststone's but the general principle is the same (the highest quality settings start to give little quality improvement for a massive amount of file bloating).

Photometric- changes how the colours are encoded in the jpeg. I've never fiddled with these, YCbCr is the norm as far as I know for photos and works well with the colour subsampling and human vision.

Progressive- see here What is a progressive JPEG? | Liquid Web Knowledge Base will make a little difference in how they are displayed on the web as the image is loading. Has a minor effect on the filesize, but nothing to write home about.

Optimize Huffman - keep this ticked. It makes the non-lossy part of the jpeg compression more efficient at the cost of a bit of time during the initial compression.

Color Subsampling - "Medium" is generally fine for screen use, sometimes 'High" is ok too. It depends on the content.


Best bet? Make a sample set of a dozen or so images covering a range of image content. Run them through your program of choice in batches with different settings. Find out what works for you.
I like to try and use my camera to it's fullest. I currently use all the User Mode dials, set to different tasks (Portrait, Action, Landscape etc). For a long time now I have been shooting RAW and never Jpg, but sometimes I feel the shot I took at the time (Jpg Preview) is almost good enough (or a great starting point), and that when I go to edit the RAW in LR I am wasting 2-3mins pushing that RAW file to being a little bit like the back of the Jpg Preview. Furthermore I would like to try playing around with some of the Custom Image presets and/or create my own. But at the same time I don't want to abandon RAW (in case I need it and mess up with shooting Jpgs strictly). Currently I am anaylising if RAW+ is really needed, if choosing the write to both memory cards at once, then RAW+ gets a bit ridiculous. I wouldn't mind changing my Memory Card Options but that's a global setting not sticking with User Modes and what not, and I have gotten into a mess in the past by not changing it back when toggling it etc.
So it strikes me that the RAW+ really only offers the benefit if you need that Jpg quickly. I don't, so if I continue to shoot RAW it appears I can have the Jpg any time I want from it, either from doing the RAW Development within the camera itself (ZZzzz....) or use a 3rd party program (preferred, run a batch, make a coffee, come back all done).

My computer also kinda sucks, I know that loading times with my Jpgs are quicker than DNG's. And if I do things like Brenizer shots then the software that handles stitching will prefer my lower file sized Jpgs to stitch vs a ton of DNG files.

Thanks for the detailed info on the settings within FSIV. I was thinking someone was gonna say "Find out what works for you" etc

Tbh Even the 90 Quality 5mb shot looked pretty decent to me, I just worry that when taking that file to LR for further editing, because it's only 5mb and not 20mb like what the RAW Developement convert would achieve in camera that I am therefore missing valuable editing parameters (colour spectrum restricted etc) or stuff like that.
If FSIV (or some other program) can output a Jpg that is the roughtly the same as what the RAW Development (in camera) does then I feel going in that I am working with the maximum potential of the Jpg file, and coming from a 'editing RAW only' perspective would be a good comparison to see in what areas I really struggle with the Jpg file.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Simple option - as used by me

- shoot RAW (DNG);
- use Lightroom (or DxO or C1 or PDCU) to do your output conversions to JPEG.

I love Faststone, but only use it for quick JPEG or TIFF adjustments, one or two occasional clone and heals, and batch reductions/ watermarking. Not as my main RAW converter.
Up until now I have used FSIV only as a first stage of image culling. Fire the DNG's up, look at the Jpg Previews as it gives them, see what shots look like they're worth editing, tag them, move them to a new location, import those tagged files to LR for proper editing. That's all I use the program for, literally just viewing and tagging.

I don't have DxO, C1 or PDCU installed but I do use LR, how are you managing to import a DNG in LR but then toggle it to take on the camera image settings taken at the time. Thus far I can set my Custom Image in camera to being 'BW' (monochrome) for example. The camera on review displays the DNG as being monochrome, FSIV will render the DNG file as being monochrome (i.e. using the Jpg full res preview), but once imported to LR the image is rendered properly as the RAW (so therefore in color) and toggling every option under Camera Calibration (where the Pentax profiles are) does not seem to put it 'back' to being the way it was taken at the time (ie in this case monochrome).

QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
The RAWs will have embedded full resolution jpeg previews. I just downloaded and checked a couple K-1 files using "Instant Jpeg From Raw" and it extracted full resolution (4912x7630 pixels) files that were about 4MB. Compression varied depending on content, JPEGSnoop approximated one to a Quality setting of 76 in Faststone.

Ah right, I forgot about that setting. It looks like the "Save As" option always works off the RAW file and not the embedded preview, but the "Batch Convert" respects the option you mentioned. I agree that it's a bad idea to use the batch convert to re-compress a bunch of jpeg preview files that might already be of sketchy quality. It does take about half the time though (Instant JPEG from RAW is almost instantaneous, and would be a better option if it was the previews someone was after).
So do we have some recommended settings for the Batch Convert in FSIV? Currently getting file sizes too large and it looks like it's taking too long to do even 10-15 files. What 'sweet spot' settings wise would you good folks use?
03-21-2019, 01:16 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Is this Pentax Digital Camera Utility you speak of?; Digital Camera Utility 5 Update for Windows : Software Downloads | RICOH IMAGING
Is it free? I've never used it. Someone else on facebook suggested that this program uses the camera image settings as the default Raw converter
It comes free with the camera, and although I dont use it I imagine it works just like any other raw converter. The camera jpeg settings are just one option. But if you are are going to process a raw file I see no point in using the camera jpeg settings. Why would you ?

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Thus far I cannot get LR or PS to show me the Jpg Preview of my RAW DNG files, how are you managing it?
I have no interest at all in seeing the jpeg preview image. I use a raw converter to process the raw data into an image with the tones and saturation etc that I want. If I want the camera settings I would shoot jpeg, not raw.
03-21-2019, 01:42 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
It comes free with the camera, and although I dont use it I imagine it works just like any other raw converter. The camera jpeg settings are just one option. But if you are are going to process a raw file I see no point in using the camera jpeg settings. Why would you ?



I have no interest at all in seeing the jpeg preview image. I use a raw converter to process the raw data into an image with the tones and saturation etc that I want. If I want the camera settings I would shoot jpeg, not raw.
Yeh it seems you have slightly missed the point to this thread (my bad), I shall clarify.

Yes we can edit RAW, yes we can shoot Jpg, we can shoot Jpg and RAW but they all come at a price, namely at the time of the shot taken we are compromising in some way or another. If we shoot only Jpg we lose the ability to use a RAW file if we need that extra editing headroom. However shooting only Jpg and we get the best buffer headroom and burst speeds. If we shoot RAW+ and write a DNG and Jpg to a single card at a time we got the best of both worlds, however... things slow down on the shoot, made worse by writing to only one card, if we used RAW+ and write to both cards things get even worse. If we shoot RAW to SD1 and Jpg to SD2 that's not a bad option, but then in this mode we cannot use the 'One Push File Format' option and toggle out of that mode easily and into say 'Jpg only' (for those moments when you need speed and buffer headroom).*
If we shoot RAW and just RAW it seems we can essentially get the benefits of shooting as if we chose RAW+ but just derive the Jpg at a later time (after the fact and not during) and of course benefit from better buffer headrooms and what not than in RAW+ mode.

I'm intrigued as to how good Jpgs are for editing, but I am concerned to shoot and lose the safety net of RAW. I am intrigued as to what kind of SOOCs I can derive from the camera by having a play with the Custom Image settings, even creating some hybrid versions of my own.

Sometimes I feel with a RAW edit I have spent 2-3mins pushing the flat lifeless RAW to being something that closely resembles the Jpeg Preview that I first saw on the back of the camera screen . If you can manage to use Jpgs and use them well then you essentially get a far stronger camera experience, buffer headroom, better fps, better file transfers, quicker loading times, less cpu strain etc. It might be that during my exploration into this matter that in time I have some User Modes that are predominately set to Jpg (leaving the RAW safety net behind completely) and perhaps only using RAW when I know I will need it (dynamic landscape shots etc). I'm not at that point yet, I may never be, my education may prove to be that RAW is king, but it's a journey I am willing to undertake as wisely as possible.

Hope this helps understand the perspective and point to all this.

* I find it's best to leave the Memory Card Options as fixed and not change it, as it's a global setting and not bound to any User Mode or power down reset. If for example you want to toggle from shooting RAW SD1 RAW SD2 >> Jpg SD1 (and nothing to SD2) then it's quite a bit of button pressing (even with using Info shortcuts etc), and the changes are not reverted from changing mode dials or power downs (ie it can get a bit messy if absent minded like me )
03-21-2019, 01:49 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Is it free? I've never used it. Someone else on facebook suggested that this program uses the camera image settings as the default Raw converter. I mean is it worth installing that program, chucking a few DNG files at it and see what Jpgs it spits out?
Yes. It used to come on a disk with your camera (it may still). Your raw files will carry the in-camera settings, most raw converters will ignore them or possibly misinterpret them, but DCU will do what you want and use these in-camera settings. If you want to shoot RAW only but still be able to produce high quality jpegs that use your in-camera image settings, this might be your only option. Try it.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
For a long time now I have been shooting RAW and never Jpg, but sometimes I feel the shot I took at the time (Jpg Preview) is almost good enough (or a great starting point), and that when I go to edit the RAW in LR I am wasting 2-3mins pushing that RAW file to being a little bit like the back of the Jpg Preview.
Have you tried making custom presets in Lightroom that give you the look of thein-camera Jpegs? Then just apply on import. A basic preset might cut down on a bunch of your editing time. Make a basic Landscape one, a basic Portrait one, etc. I don't see much point in fiddling with the in-camera settings if I can make more flexible presets in the raw converter of my choice.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Thanks for the detailed info on the settings within FSIV. I was thinking someone was gonna say "Find out what works for you" etc
Hah! There's really no other way:P. It helps to know what the settings do so you can make your own adjustments, but what's good enough for one person might be hideous for another.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Tbh Even the 90 Quality 5mb shot looked pretty decent to me, I just worry that when taking that file to LR for further editing, because it's only 5mb and not 20mb like what the RAW Developement convert would achieve in camera that I am therefore missing valuable editing parameters (colour spectrum restricted etc) or stuff like that.
If FSIV (or some other program) can output a Jpg that is the roughtly the same as what the RAW Development (in camera) does then I feel going in that I am working with the maximum potential of the Jpg file, and coming from a 'editing RAW only' perspective would be a good comparison to see in what areas I really struggle with the Jpg file.
I wouldn't be outputting things from faststone with the intent of much editing in another program.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So do we have some recommended settings for the Batch Convert in FSIV? Currently getting file sizes too large and it looks like it's taking too long to do even 10-15 files. What 'sweet spot' settings wise would you good folks use?
It depends on what you're doing with the files after you convert:P. Not much you can do with respect to the speed. If it's instant jpegs you want for reviewing, you might try the Instant Jpeg From Raw program, it really is close to "instant". The outputs really won't be suitable for much editing or anything heavy duty, but they are great for review, especially if you have a slow computer (I'm still rocking a q6600).

03-21-2019, 01:59 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Sometimes I feel with a RAW edit I have spent 2-3mins pushing the flat lifeless RAW to being something that closely resembles the Jpeg Preview that I first saw on the back of the camera screen
I use raw exclusively, and process in Silkypix DS Pro. I have taken the time to set up my own profiles in Silkypix so that when i load a set of raw files they already have the general white balance/contrast/saturation/input sharpening settings that I want. I tweak individual images if I want to adjust these settings further.

That would be your best approach, to set up some custom profiles in your preferred raw converter. Then unless you needed to do some extra tweaking, all you need to do is crop each image and batch process them to jpegs.
03-21-2019, 02:29 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Yes. It used to come on a disk with your camera (it may still). Your raw files will carry the in-camera settings, most raw converters will ignore them or possibly misinterpret them, but DCU will do what you want and use these in-camera settings. If you want to shoot RAW only but still be able to produce high quality jpegs that use your in-camera image settings, this might be your only option. Try it.



Have you tried making custom presets in Lightroom that give you the look of thein-camera Jpegs? Then just apply on import. A basic preset might cut down on a bunch of your editing time. Make a basic Landscape one, a basic Portrait one, etc. I don't see much point in fiddling with the in-camera settings if I can make more flexible presets in the raw converter of my choice.



Hah! There's really no other way:P. It helps to know what the settings do so you can make your own adjustments, but what's good enough for one person might be hideous for another.



I wouldn't be outputting things from faststone with the intent of much editing in another program.



It depends on what you're doing with the files after you convert:P. Not much you can do with respect to the speed. If it's instant jpegs you want for reviewing, you might try the Instant Jpeg From Raw program, it really is close to "instant". The outputs really won't be suitable for much editing or anything heavy duty, but they are great for review, especially if you have a slow computer (I'm still rocking a q6600).
So you would be thinking DCU for this task rather than FSIV then? I kinda wanna minimise the amount of software I place on my PC is all. If I can make do with LR/PS and/or FSIV for this task rather than installing another program I'd probably prefer that.

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
I use raw exclusively, and process in Silkypix DS Pro. I have taken the time to set up my own profiles in Silkypix so that when i load a set of raw files they already have the general white balance/contrast/saturation/input sharpening settings that I want. I tweak individual images if I want to adjust these settings further.

That would be your best approach, to set up some custom profiles in your preferred raw converter. Then unless you needed to do some extra tweaking, all you need to do is crop each image and batch process them to jpegs.
I mean I exaggerate slightly with saying it takes me 2-3mins to get the RAW to resemble something like the Jpg Preview, sometimes it's just two clicks

My main editing platform currently is LR using RNI (Really Nice Images), they have a strong toolkit and present panel and I have noted they have a 'Jpg Compensation' aspect to the presets as well. I prefer to stay within LR for the Syncing component across a set of images. All of this really comes down to the photography style and type of tog you are. I fully understand why a lot of Landscape shooters would never entertain leaving RAW, nor a studio shooter where they want strong WB control. Then there are event togs (me) that also need high fps, great buffer headroom to capture candid moments and the uber accuracy of picture quality and range is not as important as capturing the best shot in the spur of the moment. So it's really more about that. As it is I have one User Mode set to Jpg only for that kinda affair, it's only recently come to my attention that shooting RAW (for all other situations) I can actually derive a Jpg from it, from how the camera took the shot at the time. The Prime engine is quite powerful, I think I could have some fun creating some unique tones and looks to some shots in camera, create a 'SOOC' album/platform (but all the while still having that RAW file safety net).
03-22-2019, 05:15 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So you would be thinking DCU for this task rather than FSIV then? I kinda wanna minimise the amount of software I place on my PC is all. If I can make do with LR/PS and/or FSIV for this task rather than installing another program I'd probably prefer that.
If you're set on shooting RAW only but still being able to produce high quality jpegs that use the in-camera settings, then I'm not sure there's another option. Try it out, if it doesn't do what you want, uninstall it.
03-22-2019, 05:42 AM   #27
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My experience of Faststone is it's great if your white balance is close to correct.

However it does not include control of white balance which is it's great weakness. I've used it for years and am surprised they have never added control of white balance.

Still one of my favourite pieces of software though.
03-22-2019, 03:55 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
If you're set on shooting RAW only but still being able to produce high quality jpegs that use the in-camera settings, then I'm not sure there's another option. Try it out, if it doesn't do what you want, uninstall it.
Yeah I dug out my KP box, found the DCU disk and installed and updated the software. I'm gonna take some shots today and do some testing, see if I can extract a Jpg with in camera settings from the DNG and for kicks compare to what kinda file size and vibe the RAW+ one spat out at the time as well. Will keep you posted.
03-23-2019, 05:48 PM   #29
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I just wrote a long write up to DCU5 but lost it all due to the infamous 'token expire' thing. Nice.

In short DCU5 is trash and can't do it (it being to spit out or extract a jpg from raw DNG that is of the same size as what the in camera/raw development manages). Despite being a close resemblance to all the options of the Pentax cameras I had hopes it could but it cannot. The program crashes is buggy and the one task where me might like it (over the other editing software tools) i.e. to extract the Jpg from RAW files is not great.
03-25-2019, 08:08 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
In short DCU5 is trash and can't do it (it being to spit out or extract a jpg from raw DNG that is of the same size as what the in camera/raw development manages). Despite being a close resemblance to all the options of the Pentax cameras I had hopes it could but it cannot.
Sorry to hear that it did not work for you. I've used pdcu4 and it produces images that are pretty close to the same rendering as the in-camera processing (in most cases) and it is definitely capable of producing full resolution jpegs at high quality jpeg settings. It is certainly clunky and not a fast program.

As a side note, it is also able to rapidly extract the full resolution jpeg previews from pef or dng files out of my k5iis (note the "extract jpeg" option is distinctly different from the "save as" option).
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