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11-20-2019, 07:13 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
This isn't a good view of the risk. Zero day exploits will occur and antivirus software is limited in how it can respond to OS vulnerabilities that bypass the normal operations. If you trust this to protect you I would suggest that you avoid any financial transactions and backup any data on that machine and hope your track record continues.
The irony is that XP may become more secure over time as fewer and fewer people use it, making it not worth writing exploits for.





11-20-2019, 07:14 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
There are too many vulnerabilities that can go around the antivirus
What kind ?
QuoteOriginally posted by zman Quote
Hmm, didn't know that. How do you perform the upgrade ?
How to upgrade
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
antivirus software is limited in how it can respond to OS vulnerabilities that bypass the normal operations
From what bypass are you talking ? My Antivirus monitors all external ports and has an excellent firewall...
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I would suggest that you avoid any financial transactions and backup any data on that machine and hope your track record continues.
The financial transactions are strongly protected here, nobody can connect to my bank account only attacking my PC...
I have always two backups, thanks.
11-20-2019, 08:21 AM - 7 Likes   #18
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Because Windows 10 is designed to give Microsoft greater access to your desktop computer without you noticing it, it is a far more vulnerable operating system. The only reason to not use Windows 7 is because some newer CPUs will not install Windows 7; it isn't that Windows 7 lacks important functionality compared to Windows 10, but Windows 10 changed the subsystem for USB ports and there are new "security related" instruction sets in the new CPUs that Windows 7 can't use. The problem with running XP is compatibility (both hardware and software), not its remaining security vulnerabilities.

As others have pointed out, Windows 7 is a less attractive target than Windows 10, for a few reasons. Putting security in the hands of a single entity is far more dangerous than putting it in the hands of hundreds of millions of users. After 10 years, how many vulnerabilities in Windows 7 are left to be discovered and how much effort will be put into finding those vulnerabilities? For the 2 billion personal computer users out there, the biggest security risks come from our interactions with servers that we have no control over, not from outsiders trying to read our hard drives. Windows 10 doesn't do a damn thing to prevent Facebook from exposing our connections. The only data of value on our computers is personal information that can be sold to the highest bidder and that data is already promisciously strewn over millions of servers around the world.

This gets me really agitated. Come on people, companies like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon and Facebook think of their customers (you and me) as tiny, microscopic units of money. If they pool millions of us into petri dishes, then they make money and everything those companies do is driven by that objecive. I have one desktop computer running Windows 10, three running Windows 7 and a home server running Linux. I keep one machine running Windows 10, so I can see what the applications I develop look like to Windows 10 users, otherwise that ugly piece of crap would have been un-installed a long time ago.
11-20-2019, 09:44 AM   #19
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One thing that puzzles me. A good many people like Windows 7 (myself included) and don't have any reason to change other than the virus issues. Why doesn't Microsoft offer a continued license for Windows 7 with support for those who are willing to pay for it?

I for one would be willing to pay Microsoft for continued support perhaps just as much as for a new Windows 10 license.

Forcing users to adopt new software is a bit Orwellian when older products have compatibility with older programs that newer versions may not offer. I know, I know - it's just a business model that Microsoft uses

11-20-2019, 09:53 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by zman Quote
Hmm, didn't know that. How do you perform the upgrade ?
Download "windows media creation tool". This can perform an in situ win 10 upgrade (like for like ie home edition for home edition) of your win 7 installation automatically using your existing win 7 key. If you have something else like xp then its a bit tedious to first install win 7 off any media and then upgrade but as long as you have a win 7 key (if necessary a COA is easily acquired off eg ebay for v little) you should be fine, on occasion I have had to use the microsoft auto telephone line to get a code.
There's plenty of online info if you google.
11-20-2019, 09:55 AM   #21
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Old news,Mark ....
Another newer Windows 7 "Warning" - Will officially become unsupported January 2020. - PentaxForums.com
11-20-2019, 09:56 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
One thing that puzzles me. A good many people like Windows 7 (myself included) and don't have any reason to change other than the virus issues. Why doesn't Microsoft offer a continued license for Windows 7 with support for those who are willing to pay for it?

I for one would be willing to pay Microsoft for continued support perhaps just as much as for a new Windows 10 license.

Forcing users to adopt new software is a bit Orwellian when older products have compatibility with older programs that newer versions may not offer. I know, I know - it's just a business model that Microsoft uses
They do offer this: Microsoft is offering unprepared SMBs extended Windows 7 support

11-20-2019, 10:27 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
indeed!

What's scary for Windows 7 users is that any security patch created by Microsoft for later Windows versions will likely alert hackers to the specific vulnerabilities in Windows 7.

The only safe solutions are to either upgrade to a newer Windows version (or Linux!) or totally disconnect the Windows 7 machine from the internet.
.


Great advice!

I have a Windows 7 laptop that is dedicated to running my old, large format printer (Epson 7600). Epson never produced a new driver that's compatible with Windows 10, so if I want to use my big printer, I need to use my Windows 7 laptop.

It somehow seems unfair for a hardware maker to abandon support of expensive equipment they sell in just a few years. I'll never buy an Epson Printer again!

I guess that I'll just have to disconnect this laptop from the Internet.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 11-20-2019 at 10:36 AM.
11-20-2019, 11:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Don't think I or many of us out here qualify as an SMB (maybe SOB but not SMB). Thanks for that info however - might wrangle something out of them.
11-20-2019, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
What kind ?

How to upgrade

From what bypass are you talking ? My Antivirus monitors all external ports and has an excellent firewall...

The financial transactions are strongly protected here, nobody can connect to my bank account only attacking my PC...
I have always two backups, thanks.
Here is a real simple example of how AV does not protect you and how you could be exploited by an OS vulnerability. Some AV applications have the ability to block execution of malicious software but exploits usually allow the code to be executed bypassing your AV.


I am a friend of yours and send you an email asking you to help me with editing a photo. I include a link to the photo. This link will include the photo and it will also include code that can attack an OS vulnerability. This vulnerability will allow me to install additional code say a keystroke logger or search your system for info that can lead to identity theft.

Moral of the story don't play games for protecting your data. And don't try and convince others that running old and outdated systems is OK.
11-20-2019, 11:45 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
What kind ?

How to upgrade

From what bypass are you talking ? My Antivirus monitors all external ports and has an excellent firewall...

The financial transactions are strongly protected here, nobody can connect to my bank account only attacking my PC...
I have always two backups, thanks.
I can only suggest you read a bit more in this area there are people who legitimately think av and firewall will be sufficient. There are also alternate viewpoints.

antivirus - Replacing Windows 7 security updates with anti-virus? - Information Security Stack Exchange

How to Safely Use Windows XP After Microsoft Ends Support | TurboFuture

It is your risk and your computer. I don't agree that firewalls and av are suficient based on hacking sessions I've observed. But this your risk tolerance is different than mine.
11-20-2019, 12:13 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve_k Quote
Here is a real simple example of how AV does not protect you and how you could be exploited by an OS vulnerability. Some AV applications have the ability to block execution of malicious software but exploits usually allow the code to be executed bypassing your AV.


I am a friend of yours and send you an email asking you to help me with editing a photo. I include a link to the photo. This link will include the photo and it will also include code that can attack an OS vulnerability. This vulnerability will allow me to install additional code say a keystroke logger or search your system for info that can lead to identity theft.

Moral of the story don't play games for protecting your data. And don't try and convince others that running old and outdated systems is OK.
So you can't do that with Windows 10, or ?
11-20-2019, 12:15 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
It is your risk and your computer. I don't agree that firewalls and av are suficient based on hacking sessions I've observed. But this your risk tolerance is different than mine.
Since 20 years I'm on internet and I've never been hacked, perhaps because I'm cautious...
11-20-2019, 12:24 PM   #29
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Win 10 is so much better and faster. The file copy algorithm was updated in Win 8 and it was considerably faster then Win 7. (For many small files, not one big video.) Windows 10 has much better 4K display support and runs more efficiently on modern hardware. Update as soon as possible!
11-20-2019, 01:38 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
I used Windows XP until Windows 7 came out and I had not one problem, even when some sources of Xp was on the internet. My antivirus protected me very well.
And it will do the same job next year.
I sincerely hope you will refrain from using a Windows 7 machine for banking or related secure transactions after support ends. Antivirus software will not fully protect you from security exploits.
Continuing to use Windows 7 without patches and updates will leave systems vulnerable to new exploits and malware as they emerge. Continue at your own risk.
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