What's New in Capture One Pro 20?

**iheiramo** · 12-05-2019, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by PDL

Not quite.
LR has the ability of change between various grids when in Crop mode by a keyboard and cycle through grids "O" and some grid orientations (think Fibonacci spiral) sift "O". Some of us have been on Phase One's case to provide a native solution, rather than the method used in v12 and v20.

Ok. Not familiar with lightroom, so don't know what's in it. Not willing to go into subscription mode

Class A · 12-05-2019, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Yes, in LR it is easy and very quick, using just one press on the backslash key to toggle your defaults/adjusted view of the current image. C1 lacks this one-key keyboard toggle.

As @PDL wrote, it should be possible to accomplish this in C1 by mapping the global "reset" function to a keyboard shortcut (the backslash key would probably work) and then using "Undo" to reverse the operation. Subsequently cycling through "Redo" and "Undo" would then give you the ability to flip back between "before" and "after" as many times as you like.

However, I find a full global reset (as initiated by the backslash key in LR per default as well) not to be useful. Too many adjustments change at once using this method.
Lightroom offers a great alternative, though. One can nominate any step in the per-image history as the "before" state. Using backslash then flips between the final version any and intermediate version one nominated before. Sadly, C1 cannot replicate this behaviour since it doesn't provide access to an explicit per-image history to start with.

**iheiramo** · 12-05-2019, 08:55 AM - **1 Like**

If I want to compare some changes to consider if it's good or not, I just create a new layer to make them. Then it's easy to turn layer on and off to compare the effect of those changes.

Class A · 12-05-2019, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by iheiramo

If I want to compare some changes to consider if it's good or not, I just create a new layer to make them.

That works well if the changes can all be confined to a single layer, in particular because one can use a keyboard shortcut to toggle the currently selected layer on and off.

However, when a certain change to an image requires the use of multiple masks then it is very nice to be able to select exactly all the editing steps related to the change and make a respective "before/after" comparison.

It's not a deal breaker to me that C1 does not offer such a feature, but I used it quite a bit when I was still using LR.

**iheiramo** · 12-06-2019, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by Class A

However, when a certain change to an image requires the use of multiple masks then it is very nice to be able to select exactly all the editing steps related to the change and make a respective "before/after" comparison.

I haven't had such situation, but could this be solved by creating a copy of the shot like they do on videous? Then you can have the shots side by side on the screen.

Class A · 12-06-2019, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by iheiramo

I haven't had such situation, but could this be solved by creating a copy of the shot like they do on videous? Then you can have the shots side by side on the screen.

The method you are describing has two disadvantages:

It requires foresight. You'd have to create the "before" version before starting with a certain editing sequence. It isn't always necessary to go back to a "before" state, but to be safe one would have to create many intermediate "before" versions, just in case one wants to see one of those states again.
The "before" variants have to be cleaned up afterwards. There is no need to keep "before" versions around once the editing has been finalised.

It is a workaround, yes, but like most workarounds it comes with drawbacks.

**iheiramo** · 12-06-2019, 04:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Class A

...like most workarounds it comes with drawbacks.

Indeed. One just need to find the method that suit workflow and wait for new features

PDL · 12-06-2019, 06:22 PM

Well, I have to say that my fixation with LensID is a basic workflow step without regard to the RAW processor. This is because I frequently use manual non-Pentax lenses and I have one Tokina that is defined by ExifTool and LR as a Pentax lens. So I will be still working to get LensID to be correct even in Capture One (please, please, please) "fixes" the issue.

My last trip out to the Olympic Peninsula over Thanksgiving (US) was with my 16-50mm and 50-135mm DA* lenses. (No rain----whoopeee) It would have been nice to be able to come home and directly load up the images into my Catalogue, but I went through the workflow anyway. So-it-goes.

**mirocal** · 12-11-2019, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by iheiramo

If I understand correctly CO has that. Press alt + keep left mouse button pressed on that backspace arrow on the tool box and you see the picture with that tool on default.

Indeed that is a usable substitute. However, the image changes in 3 steps: modified including tool effect <-> original <-> modified without tool effect. Subtle changes are thus harder to notice because of the intermediate transition through original view. By contrast, in ON1, the image switches between with and without tool change, faster and cleaner.

Class A · 12-13-2019, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by mirocal

However, the image changes in 3 steps: modified including tool effect <-> original <-> modified without tool effect.

If one simply presses "Alt" and clicks (and holds) on the "back arrow", then one should immediately see the "modified without the tool" version.

Perhaps the "original" could pop-up briefly on some slower machines in between, I'm not sure.
However, after having cycled through some "no clicks" and Alt-clicks on the "back arrow" a couple of times, both "modified with tool" and "modified without tool" should be cached and shown in direct succession.

I really dislike intermediate renderings as well, but they almost never happen using C1.

PDL · 12-13-2019, 12:43 PM

FYI - webinar from Thursday covering 5 things to know about Capture One 20. This is just about the new stuff, mostly the interface and a little about additional engine changes. David does say that Capture One 20 supports DNG for "non supported cameras", those of you with a 645Z should take them to task. I also hit the comments with a 645Z bit and hit them about not supporting Pentax metadata (my perennial soapbox).

Top 5 things to know about Capture One 20 - Capture One

Class A · 12-13-2019, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by PDL

I also hit the comments with a 645Z bit and hit them about not supporting Pentax metadata (my perennial soapbox).

Do you mean the YouTube comments?

I didn't see anything regarding Pentax posted to the video on YouTube.

I hope you are not shadow banned.

PDL · 12-13-2019, 04:38 PM

No, it was in the chat feature during the webinar. To my knowledge, the comments are not preserved in the published webinar as they are merged from the two on-line episodes.

I am pretty sure that since I have been bugging them ever since "Camera Lens" has been a filter in CO that they tune me out. Sort of "here he goes again". Also, no one flagged the post with a "like"..... So it goes.

Since there was a remark about DNG being supported for all DNG capable cameras, I put in the remark about the 645Z. I guess it is up to someone on this forum to check it out. Although I would like a 645Z, the cost is really out of my league (unless the lotter goes my way big time)

Class A · 12-13-2019, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by PDL

No, it was in the chat feature during the webinar.

Ah, I see.

You probably took part in the second one then. I didn't see your comments during the first one, but perhaps I just missed them.

The Webinar comments are definitely not preserved.

I don't think they'll ever support another MF camera unless they strike a special deal like the one with Fuji.

In a way, it is a badge of honour for Pentax that Phase One thinks supporting the Pentax 645 series could cost them hardware sales. 🙂

BTW, some EXIF manipulation makes the Pentax MF files palatable to C1. If someone were keen, there's always been a path.

12-06-2019, 03:42 AM	#21
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by iheiramo I haven't had such situation, but could this be solved by creating a copy of the shot like they do on videous? Then you can have the shots side by side on the screen. The method you are describing has two disadvantages: It requires foresight. You'd have to create the "before" version before starting with a certain editing sequence. It isn't always necessary to go back to a "before" state, but to be safe one would have to create many intermediate "before" versions, just in case one wants to see one of those states again. The "before" variants have to be cleaned up afterwards. There is no need to keep "before" versions around once the editing has been finalised. It is a workaround, yes, but like most workarounds it comes with drawbacks.

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12-05-2019, 01:41 AM	#16
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,182	Originally posted by PDL Not quite. LR has the ability of change between various grids when in Crop mode by a keyboard and cycle through grids "O" and some grid orientations (think Fibonacci spiral) sift "O". Some of us have been on Phase One's case to provide a native solution, rather than the method used in v12 and v20. Ok. Not familiar with lightroom, so don't know what's in it. Not willing to go into subscription mode

12-05-2019, 07:42 AM	#17
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr Yes, in LR it is easy and very quick, using just one press on the backslash key to toggle your defaults/adjusted view of the current image. C1 lacks this one-key keyboard toggle. As @PDL wrote, it should be possible to accomplish this in C1 by mapping the global "reset" function to a keyboard shortcut (the backslash key would probably work) and then using "Undo" to reverse the operation. Subsequently cycling through "Redo" and "Undo" would then give you the ability to flip back between "before" and "after" as many times as you like. However, I find a full global reset (as initiated by the backslash key in LR per default as well) not to be useful. Too many adjustments change at once using this method. Lightroom offers a great alternative, though. One can nominate any step in the per-image history as the "before" state. Using backslash then flips between the final version any and intermediate version one nominated before. Sadly, C1 cannot replicate this behaviour since it doesn't provide access to an explicit per-image history to start with.

12-05-2019, 08:55 AM - 1 Like	#18
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,182	If I want to compare some changes to consider if it's good or not, I just create a new layer to make them. Then it's easy to turn layer on and off to compare the effect of those changes.

12-05-2019, 10:03 PM	#19
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by iheiramo If I want to compare some changes to consider if it's good or not, I just create a new layer to make them. That works well if the changes can all be confined to a single layer, in particular because one can use a keyboard shortcut to toggle the currently selected layer on and off. However, when a certain change to an image requires the use of multiple masks then it is very nice to be able to select exactly all the editing steps related to the change and make a respective "before/after" comparison. It's not a deal breaker to me that C1 does not offer such a feature, but I used it quite a bit when I was still using LR.

12-06-2019, 12:55 AM	#20
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,182	Originally posted by Class A However, when a certain change to an image requires the use of multiple masks then it is very nice to be able to select exactly all the editing steps related to the change and make a respective "before/after" comparison. I haven't had such situation, but could this be solved by creating a copy of the shot like they do on videous? Then you can have the shots side by side on the screen.

12-06-2019, 04:00 AM - 1 Like	#22
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,182	Originally posted by Class A ...like most workarounds it comes with drawbacks. Indeed. One just need to find the method that suit workflow and wait for new features

12-06-2019, 06:22 PM	#23
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	Well, I have to say that my fixation with LensID is a basic workflow step without regard to the RAW processor. This is because I frequently use manual non-Pentax lenses and I have one Tokina that is defined by ExifTool and LR as a Pentax lens. So I will be still working to get LensID to be correct even in Capture One (please, please, please) "fixes" the issue. My last trip out to the Olympic Peninsula over Thanksgiving (US) was with my 16-50mm and 50-135mm DA* lenses. (No rain----whoopeee) It would have been nice to be able to come home and directly load up the images into my Catalogue, but I went through the workflow anyway. So-it-goes.

12-11-2019, 12:45 PM	#24
mirocal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Washington, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 85	Originally posted by iheiramo If I understand correctly CO has that. Press alt + keep left mouse button pressed on that backspace arrow on the tool box and you see the picture with that tool on default. Indeed that is a usable substitute. However, the image changes in 3 steps: modified including tool effect <-> original <-> modified without tool effect. Subtle changes are thus harder to notice because of the intermediate transition through original view. By contrast, in ON1, the image switches between with and without tool change, faster and cleaner.

12-13-2019, 06:12 AM	#25
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by mirocal However, the image changes in 3 steps: modified including tool effect <-> original <-> modified without tool effect. If one simply presses "Alt" and clicks (and holds) on the "back arrow", then one should immediately see the "modified without the tool" version. Perhaps the "original" could pop-up briefly on some slower machines in between, I'm not sure. However, after having cycled through some "no clicks" and Alt-clicks on the "back arrow" a couple of times, both "modified with tool" and "modified without tool" should be cached and shown in direct succession. I really dislike intermediate renderings as well, but they almost never happen using C1.

12-13-2019, 12:43 PM	#26
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	FYI - webinar from Thursday covering 5 things to know about Capture One 20. This is just about the new stuff, mostly the interface and a little about additional engine changes. David does say that Capture One 20 supports DNG for "non supported cameras", those of you with a 645Z should take them to task. I also hit the comments with a 645Z bit and hit them about not supporting Pentax metadata (my perennial soapbox). Top 5 things to know about Capture One 20 - Capture One

12-13-2019, 03:39 PM	#27
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by PDL I also hit the comments with a 645Z bit and hit them about not supporting Pentax metadata (my perennial soapbox). Do you mean the YouTube comments? I didn't see anything regarding Pentax posted to the video on YouTube. I hope you are not shadow banned.

12-13-2019, 04:38 PM	#28
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	No, it was in the chat feature during the webinar. To my knowledge, the comments are not preserved in the published webinar as they are merged from the two on-line episodes. I am pretty sure that since I have been bugging them ever since "Camera Lens" has been a filter in CO that they tune me out. Sort of "here he goes again". Also, no one flagged the post with a "like"..... So it goes. Since there was a remark about DNG being supported for all DNG capable cameras, I put in the remark about the 645Z. I guess it is up to someone on this forum to check it out. Although I would like a 645Z, the cost is really out of my league (unless the lotter goes my way big time)

12-13-2019, 05:40 PM	#29
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by PDL No, it was in the chat feature during the webinar. Ah, I see. You probably took part in the second one then. I didn't see your comments during the first one, but perhaps I just missed them. The Webinar comments are definitely not preserved. I don't think they'll ever support another MF camera unless they strike a special deal like the one with Fuji. In a way, it is a badge of honour for Pentax that Phase One thinks supporting the Pentax 645 series could cost them hardware sales. 🙂 BTW, some EXIF manipulation makes the Pentax MF files palatable to C1. If someone were keen, there's always been a path.