Looking for advice on post processing software

robysue · 01-01-2020, 07:54 PM

I apologize for the length of this post. But I'm not a total newbie asking the totally naive question of "What software should I use to post process photos?"

So a bit about myself:

I'm a mac user and my current laptop that is used for processing my photos is running OSX version 10.13.6 (High Sierra) and it's an older mac from 2012. I'm not interested in updating my computer right now since I can't really afford to do that.

I've been taking digital photos since 2001. First on an Olympus Camedia, then on a K-100D, and now I've got myself a brand new used K-3 this Christmas. I recall what software I used to process the Olympus pictures, but it was probably the software that came with the camera. I did, however, learn the basics of dealing with jpeg editing way back then and just as important, I learned that I rather enjoyed post processing the pictures that came out of the camera.

When I got the K-100D in 2007, Macs were still running some version of iPhoto that unfortunately did destructive editing of jpegs and did not recognize raw files at all. Moreover, iPhoto was difficult to use. At some point I started using SilkyPix because it could handle raw and with its "save the parameters and 'develop' a new jpeg" seemed to be far less destructive when editing jpegs. And while I didn't ever really master all the real power of SilkyPix, I did become competent at post processing my files to get photos I was (mostly) happy.

But after two computer replacements, I not had a longer have working version of SilkyPix for some time. And once Apple replace iPhoto with Photos, I started using Photos to edit my pictures. Photos does recognize Pentax's PEF raw format as well as DNG, but it's pretty slow at editing raw and so I've been shooting jpeg almost exclusively for the last three years. I don't actually *like* Photos because it's difficult to do some of the things I find myself needing to do rather often (changing the white balance in particular). And as my Photos data base has gotten larger and larger, the program has gotten slower and slower when I'm editing large files.

So with the new K-3, I need to give some serious thought to switching to something other than Photos to edit my pictures with. My K-3 did come with a disk for Digital Camera Utility 5. I've installed it, but I'm not particularly impressed with the program. It seems kludgy. While it's easier to copy and paste a set of parameters from one picture to a bunch of others taken at the same time (as a starting point for editing), I'm not particularly impressed with how you adjust the pictures: There are lots of floating windows with tabs that contain various parameters that can be changed and that can be confusing. But the bigger problems are many of the parameters are labeled only with icons (so I can't quite tell what they do) AND many of the parameters can only be adjusted in discrete steps rather than with a continuous slider like Photos has.

So I'm looking for something that's easier to use than Digital Camera Utility 5 and faster than Photos. I'd also like a program that will encourage me to improve my post processing skills. And because of budget issues, it's got to be free (preferable) or low cost. I'm not interested in a subscription that I have to renew on an annual or monthly basis to continue to be able to use the program.

So are there any suggestions on what software I might ought to look into?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

**pepperberry farm** · 01-01-2020, 08:00 PM

I'm also a Mac user and have been using Luminar since it was introduced; you can use it as a standalone app (I do)...

Cutting-edge Photo Editor for Mac & PC | Skylum

ChristianRock · 01-01-2020, 08:19 PM

I think most people here in the forums use Lightroom. Some have older licenses from back when you could buy them. Now it is subscription based and it starts at 120 dollars a year.

There are other programs that are still sold by license, and I guess I'll let the users talk about them... the only one I know is Corel Aftershot Pro, which I would stay away from. It used to be a good piece of software back in the old days but now it's not worth the hassle as the free options are better.

Speaking of free options, I am familiar with the main two - RawTherapee and Darktable. They are both great and both have their issues.
The RawTherapee issue is the user interface that takes some getting used to. I also think it's harder to create presets for RawTherapee than other software. RawTherapee supports Pentax pixel shift, which a lot of other software doesn't.
Darktable is also very powerful and seems to be updated at a faster pace than RawTherapee. It's a bit more full featured. The down side to me is that I don't really like the file management side of it. That is about it - it's easy to create styles (presets), new modules are added all the time, and the basic curves for the various brands of cameras work great, so it's possible to create great images without much effort. But you can go really deep with it, for example the ability to stack multiple instances of the same module can be very useful. And pretty much every module allows you to work in layers.
There are great film emulations for both RawTherapee and Darktable that I enjoy using.

**AggieDad** · 01-01-2020, 08:39 PM

I am also a Mac user – 2012 13" MacBook Pro and a 2017 27" iMac. My MacBook also runs High Sierra. I have Luminar, Affinity, and On1 and all of them run nicely on the MacBook. Also each of these can be accessed as a plug-in from within Apple Photos.

Good luck!

**Riggomatic** · 01-01-2020, 08:53 PM

I'm not a Mac user, but I'll throw out Affinity photo and Darktable. Darktable is free and there are lots of tutorials on YouTube for it. Affinity is pretty low cost. But that's true for most software out there.

Both of those are available for Mac.

**Bruce Clark** · 01-01-2020, 09:53 PM

Adobe Lightroom is arguably the best around. It also has catalog features that are very powerful. In fact it only works via its catalog system. It has a relatively steep learning curve Then there is Adobe Photoshop, very heavy duty. Thirdly there is a cut down version of Photoshop called Photoshop Elements. This has most of the most useful feature s of the full photoshop but a a much reduced price.

I began with Photoshop Elements then moved to Lightroom which I use almost excluisively.

If you decide to go the Lightroom path I highly recommend some advance study into the catalog system as this is absolutely vital to Lightroom.

You Tube

**Tas** · 01-01-2020, 11:19 PM

This is a topic that has a lot of differing opinions, but one things for sure there's many good options around these days so there something out there that will suit what you want.

You shoot in RAW and are after simplicity so the GIMP (freeware) whilst really good may not be suitable. There are free versions of RAW processors but I have no experience with them so will leave the feedback to others.

I used to use Lightroom and Photoshop but was not interested in a subscription.

I now use a program called On1 PhotoRAW. It's a purchase that gives you the program as a standalone product without a need for an ongoing subscription. The price is normally $99 but is currently $79. This is for the 2020 version released in November last year.

It is very good, it can do basic processing and complex processing so it's something you can grow into. They do lots of video guides for how to use the program. There are updates over the 12 months the program is current then they stop updating when the new program is released (usually each November). The good thing is the program continues to work and you own it forever.

Good luck with the decision.

Tas

bladerunner6 · 01-01-2020, 11:22 PM

I use DXO Photolab- awesome noise reduction and great lens corrections.

Then I use Pixelmator but at some point I might use Affinity or Pixelmator Pro.

I am very adverse to Adobe’s subscription model.

401k’s and other regular investment programs are unquestionably excellent ways to build wealth.

The corollary is that things that automatically cause you to spend money unquestionably destroy wealth,

**subsea** · 01-01-2020, 11:50 PM

I had a 2011 MacBook Pro on which I ran Adobe LightRoom 6, Adobe Photoshop 6 and ON1 Photo RAW. My main image processor was LightRoom. Unfortunately, LightRoom 6 was the last non-subscription version of LightRoom released by Adobe and it hasn't been updated in years (and it won't be updated in the future). I also refuse to be held captive to a subscription-based application, so I've basically given up on Adobe applications, in favor of ON1 Photo RAW. I recently upgraded my laptop to a 2019 MacBook Pro and I see significant improvements in performance. I expect that LightRoom will fail to run at all when I bite the bullet and upgrade the laptop's OS to Catalina. My desktop Mac is a 2010 MacPro which has been upgraded (both hardware and software) as far as it can go and I run all of those image processing programs on it as well.

All of that being said, you should know that Digital Camera Utility is built on SilkyPix and there are probably more recent versions of it available on the Pentax website. I think the current version is up to 5.8.4.5. You might give that a try and see if it's more to your liking than the version that came with your camera. I don't know which Apple laptop you've got (or how much RAM you've got in it), but if it's a 2012 MacBook Pro, it can probably be upgraded with additional RAM (which I did on my old laptop), which would significantly improve its performance.

Another application that you might look at is Graphic Converter by Thorsten Lemke. It's $39.95 and is generally considered to be the Swiss Army Knife of image processing programs. It natively handles .PEF and .DNG files. As with any new (to you) image processing application, there will be a learning curve involved with using it, but learning it should be worth it. Also, once you've purchased it, you get free updates regularly, although there might be a modest charge when Lemke releases a major update, which happens every few years.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

**microlight** · 01-02-2020, 12:24 AM - **1 Like**

Another free option might be Faststone Image Viewer, which is a combined organiser, converter and editor with a pretty decent set of features. I found that the raw converter produced slightly grainier images than for example Adobe Camera Raw, but for nothing, it’s worth a try.

Roadboat24 · 01-02-2020, 06:42 AM

Affinity Photo....

wanderer2 · 01-02-2020, 07:06 AM

I would second the recommendations for Affinity Photo. which If I recall correctly was originally developed for Macs and later for Windows. There is a free trial available, purchase is only $50, sometimes on sale for $40, which is a one time fee - all future updates are free. There is an active Affinity Forum and lots of tutorials available, and a "workbook" manual. And it's a very full featured program except it does not have an organizer, although one is rumored to be under development. I've found the learning curve to be gentler than the several other programs I've tried, although that seems to vary from person to person.

gatorguy · 01-02-2020, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by wanderer2

I would second the recommendations for Affinity Photo. which If I recall correctly was originally developed for Macs and later for Windows. There is a free trial available, purchase is only $50, sometimes on sale for $40, which is a one time fee - all future updates are free. There is an active Affinity Forum and lots of tutorials available, and a "workbook" manual. And it's a very full featured program except it does not have an organizer, although one is rumored to be under development. I've found the learning curve to be gentler than the several other programs I've tried, although that seems to vary from person to person.

For a similar package to what Affinity offers there's Luminar 4 which does include a decent cataloger and organizing system.

robysue · 01-02-2020, 02:54 PM

First a big thank you to everybody for all the suggestions for things to try.

I've now downloaded RawTherapee and Darktable and started to play around with them. I plan to download the free trial versions of Luminar, Affinity, and On1 to play around with them as well. If I really like one of them, they're all cheap enough to fit into my budget and are standalone pieces of software that don't require renewing a subscription fee to keep using them indefinitely.

It also sounds like Faststone Image Viewer and Graphic Converter are worth looking at as well.

I have noticed that RawTherapee and Darktable both use Windows-style shortcuts and don't have the familiar Macintosh top menu. It took some real poking around user manuals as well as clicking on random things to figure out that everything is control-* instead of command-* in the keyboard shortcuts. There are things that I already like and dislike in both programs. Darktable may have to be eliminated because it appears that a lot of its mouse driven stuff is set up for either a three button mouse or a mouse with a wheel, and that's not particularly friendly with a Macintosh trackpad that can only be set up to mimic a two-button mouse.

The steep learning curves for these programs are not particularly intimidating to me---it seems quite possible to learn the basics well enough to do a credible job of cleaning up photos reasonably quickly and then start looking into the fancy bells-and-whistles when I've got a photo or two that is worthy of spending time learning the fancier stuff. (That is basically what I did back with my old (and now lost) version of Silypix some 12 years ago.)

Finally I'll add that I've already discovered that editing the same raw photo in various pieces of software is quite illuminating: Certain things seem to be easier or harder in the various pieces of software that I've already tried. And it's been quite interesting to see how subtle differences in the white balance algorithms seem to play out. (Of course some of that could be that I'm still basically an "advanced novice" user of post processing software.)

gatorguy · 01-02-2020, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by robysue

First a big thank you to everybody for all the suggestions for things to try.

The steep learning curves for these programs are not particularly intimidating to me---it seems quite possible to learn the basics well enough to do a credible job of cleaning up photos reasonably quickly and then start looking into the fancy bells-and-whistles when I've got a photo or two that is worthy of spending time learning the fancier stuff....

Finally I'll add that I've already discovered that editing the same raw photo in various pieces of software is quite illuminating: Certain things seem to be easier or harder in the various pieces of software that I've already tried. And it's been quite interesting to see how subtle differences in the white balance algorithms seem to play out

While I'm in general a Lightroom 6 user there's specific tasks better served by DxO Photolab, various Topaz AI programs, Luminar 4, or PS. All programs I have and use at least semi-regularly. I haven't found a single package that does everything I'd like to accomplish efficiently and/or easily, so I use the tools from an assortment of software.

On the other hand I have a buddy who does everything on Photoshop and very well I might add and what he can't do there obviously doesn't need to be done in his opinion.

01-01-2020, 07:54 PM	#1
robysue Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Buffalo, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 69	Looking for advice on post processing software I apologize for the length of this post. But I'm not a total newbie asking the totally naive question of "What software should I use to post process photos?" So a bit about myself: I'm a mac user and my current laptop that is used for processing my photos is running OSX version 10.13.6 (High Sierra) and it's an older mac from 2012. I'm not interested in updating my computer right now since I can't really afford to do that. I've been taking digital photos since 2001. First on an Olympus Camedia, then on a K-100D, and now I've got myself a brand new used K-3 this Christmas. I recall what software I used to process the Olympus pictures, but it was probably the software that came with the camera. I did, however, learn the basics of dealing with jpeg editing way back then and just as important, I learned that I rather enjoyed post processing the pictures that came out of the camera. When I got the K-100D in 2007, Macs were still running some version of iPhoto that unfortunately did destructive editing of jpegs and did not recognize raw files at all. Moreover, iPhoto was difficult to use. At some point I started using SilkyPix because it could handle raw and with its "save the parameters and 'develop' a new jpeg" seemed to be far less destructive when editing jpegs. And while I didn't ever really master all the real power of SilkyPix, I did become competent at post processing my files to get photos I was (mostly) happy. But after two computer replacements, I not had a longer have working version of SilkyPix for some time. And once Apple replace iPhoto with Photos, I started using Photos to edit my pictures. Photos does recognize Pentax's PEF raw format as well as DNG, but it's pretty slow at editing raw and so I've been shooting jpeg almost exclusively for the last three years. I don't actually like Photos because it's difficult to do some of the things I find myself needing to do rather often (changing the white balance in particular). And as my Photos data base has gotten larger and larger, the program has gotten slower and slower when I'm editing large files. So with the new K-3, I need to give some serious thought to switching to something other than Photos to edit my pictures with. My K-3 did come with a disk for Digital Camera Utility 5. I've installed it, but I'm not particularly impressed with the program. It seems kludgy. While it's easier to copy and paste a set of parameters from one picture to a bunch of others taken at the same time (as a starting point for editing), I'm not particularly impressed with how you adjust the pictures: There are lots of floating windows with tabs that contain various parameters that can be changed and that can be confusing. But the bigger problems are many of the parameters are labeled only with icons (so I can't quite tell what they do) AND many of the parameters can only be adjusted in discrete steps rather than with a continuous slider like Photos has. So I'm looking for something that's easier to use than Digital Camera Utility 5 and faster than Photos. I'd also like a program that will encourage me to improve my post processing skills. And because of budget issues, it's got to be free (preferable) or low cost. I'm not interested in a subscription that I have to renew on an annual or monthly basis to continue to be able to use the program. So are there any suggestions on what software I might ought to look into? Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

01-01-2020, 11:22 PM	#8
bladerunner6 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,080	I use DXO Photolab- awesome noise reduction and great lens corrections. Then I use Pixelmator but at some point I might use Affinity or Pixelmator Pro. I am very adverse to Adobe’s subscription model. 401k’s and other regular investment programs are unquestionably excellent ways to build wealth. The corollary is that things that automatically cause you to spend money unquestionably destroy wealth, Last edited by bladerunner6; 01-01-2020 at 11:53 PM.

01-01-2020, 11:50 PM	#9
subsea Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Commack, NY Posts: 2,603	I had a 2011 MacBook Pro on which I ran Adobe LightRoom 6, Adobe Photoshop 6 and ON1 Photo RAW. My main image processor was LightRoom. Unfortunately, LightRoom 6 was the last non-subscription version of LightRoom released by Adobe and it hasn't been updated in years (and it won't be updated in the future). I also refuse to be held captive to a subscription-based application, so I've basically given up on Adobe applications, in favor of ON1 Photo RAW. I recently upgraded my laptop to a 2019 MacBook Pro and I see significant improvements in performance. I expect that LightRoom will fail to run at all when I bite the bullet and upgrade the laptop's OS to Catalina. My desktop Mac is a 2010 MacPro which has been upgraded (both hardware and software) as far as it can go and I run all of those image processing programs on it as well. All of that being said, you should know that Digital Camera Utility is built on SilkyPix and there are probably more recent versions of it available on the Pentax website. I think the current version is up to 5.8.4.5. You might give that a try and see if it's more to your liking than the version that came with your camera. I don't know which Apple laptop you've got (or how much RAM you've got in it), but if it's a 2012 MacBook Pro, it can probably be upgraded with additional RAM (which I did on my old laptop), which would significantly improve its performance. Another application that you might look at is Graphic Converter by Thorsten Lemke. It's $39.95 and is generally considered to be the Swiss Army Knife of image processing programs. It natively handles .PEF and .DNG files. As with any new (to you) image processing application, there will be a learning curve involved with using it, but learning it should be worth it. Also, once you've purchased it, you get free updates regularly, although there might be a modest charge when Lemke releases a major update, which happens every few years. Hope this helps. Good luck! Last edited by subsea; 01-02-2020 at 12:28 AM.

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01-01-2020, 08:00 PM	#2
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,677	I'm also a Mac user and have been using Luminar since it was introduced; you can use it as a standalone app (I do)... Cutting-edge Photo Editor for Mac & PC \| Skylum

01-01-2020, 08:19 PM	#3
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	I think most people here in the forums use Lightroom. Some have older licenses from back when you could buy them. Now it is subscription based and it starts at 120 dollars a year. There are other programs that are still sold by license, and I guess I'll let the users talk about them... the only one I know is Corel Aftershot Pro, which I would stay away from. It used to be a good piece of software back in the old days but now it's not worth the hassle as the free options are better. Speaking of free options, I am familiar with the main two - RawTherapee and Darktable. They are both great and both have their issues. The RawTherapee issue is the user interface that takes some getting used to. I also think it's harder to create presets for RawTherapee than other software. RawTherapee supports Pentax pixel shift, which a lot of other software doesn't. Darktable is also very powerful and seems to be updated at a faster pace than RawTherapee. It's a bit more full featured. The down side to me is that I don't really like the file management side of it. That is about it - it's easy to create styles (presets), new modules are added all the time, and the basic curves for the various brands of cameras work great, so it's possible to create great images without much effort. But you can go really deep with it, for example the ability to stack multiple instances of the same module can be very useful. And pretty much every module allows you to work in layers. There are great film emulations for both RawTherapee and Darktable that I enjoy using.

01-01-2020, 08:39 PM	#4
AggieDad Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,453	I am also a Mac user – 2012 13" MacBook Pro and a 2017 27" iMac. My MacBook also runs High Sierra. I have Luminar, Affinity, and On1 and all of them run nicely on the MacBook. Also each of these can be accessed as a plug-in from within Apple Photos. Good luck!

01-01-2020, 08:53 PM	#5
Riggomatic Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Auburn, Indiana Photos: Albums Posts: 3,885	I'm not a Mac user, but I'll throw out Affinity photo and Darktable. Darktable is free and there are lots of tutorials on YouTube for it. Affinity is pretty low cost. But that's true for most software out there. Both of those are available for Mac.

01-01-2020, 11:19 PM	#7
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	This is a topic that has a lot of differing opinions, but one things for sure there's many good options around these days so there something out there that will suit what you want. You shoot in RAW and are after simplicity so the GIMP (freeware) whilst really good may not be suitable. There are free versions of RAW processors but I have no experience with them so will leave the feedback to others. I used to use Lightroom and Photoshop but was not interested in a subscription. I now use a program called On1 PhotoRAW. It's a purchase that gives you the program as a standalone product without a need for an ongoing subscription. The price is normally $99 but is currently $79. This is for the 2020 version released in November last year. It is very good, it can do basic processing and complex processing so it's something you can grow into. They do lots of video guides for how to use the program. There are updates over the 12 months the program is current then they stop updating when the new program is released (usually each November). The good thing is the program continues to work and you own it forever. Good luck with the decision. Tas

01-02-2020, 12:24 AM - 1 Like	#10
microlight Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,129	Another free option might be Faststone Image Viewer, which is a combined organiser, converter and editor with a pretty decent set of features. I found that the raw converter produced slightly grainier images than for example Adobe Camera Raw, but for nothing, it’s worth a try.

01-02-2020, 06:42 AM	#11
Roadboat24 Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 487	Affinity Photo....

01-02-2020, 07:06 AM	#12
wanderer2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 301	I would second the recommendations for Affinity Photo. which If I recall correctly was originally developed for Macs and later for Windows. There is a free trial available, purchase is only $50, sometimes on sale for $40, which is a one time fee - all future updates are free. There is an active Affinity Forum and lots of tutorials available, and a "workbook" manual. And it's a very full featured program except it does not have an organizer, although one is rumored to be under development. I've found the learning curve to be gentler than the several other programs I've tried, although that seems to vary from person to person.

01-02-2020, 07:30 AM	#13
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by wanderer2 I would second the recommendations for Affinity Photo. which If I recall correctly was originally developed for Macs and later for Windows. There is a free trial available, purchase is only $50, sometimes on sale for $40, which is a one time fee - all future updates are free. There is an active Affinity Forum and lots of tutorials available, and a "workbook" manual. And it's a very full featured program except it does not have an organizer, although one is rumored to be under development. I've found the learning curve to be gentler than the several other programs I've tried, although that seems to vary from person to person. For a similar package to what Affinity offers there's Luminar 4 which does include a decent cataloger and organizing system.

01-02-2020, 02:54 PM	#14
robysue Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Buffalo, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 69 Original Poster	First a big thank you to everybody for all the suggestions for things to try. I've now downloaded RawTherapee and Darktable and started to play around with them. I plan to download the free trial versions of Luminar, Affinity, and On1 to play around with them as well. If I really like one of them, they're all cheap enough to fit into my budget and are standalone pieces of software that don't require renewing a subscription fee to keep using them indefinitely. It also sounds like Faststone Image Viewer and Graphic Converter are worth looking at as well. I have noticed that RawTherapee and Darktable both use Windows-style shortcuts and don't have the familiar Macintosh top menu. It took some real poking around user manuals as well as clicking on random things to figure out that everything is control-* instead of command-* in the keyboard shortcuts. There are things that I already like and dislike in both programs. Darktable may have to be eliminated because it appears that a lot of its mouse driven stuff is set up for either a three button mouse or a mouse with a wheel, and that's not particularly friendly with a Macintosh trackpad that can only be set up to mimic a two-button mouse. The steep learning curves for these programs are not particularly intimidating to me---it seems quite possible to learn the basics well enough to do a credible job of cleaning up photos reasonably quickly and then start looking into the fancy bells-and-whistles when I've got a photo or two that is worthy of spending time learning the fancier stuff. (That is basically what I did back with my old (and now lost) version of Silypix some 12 years ago.) Finally I'll add that I've already discovered that editing the same raw photo in various pieces of software is quite illuminating: Certain things seem to be easier or harder in the various pieces of software that I've already tried. And it's been quite interesting to see how subtle differences in the white balance algorithms seem to play out. (Of course some of that could be that I'm still basically an "advanced novice" user of post processing software.)

01-02-2020, 05:49 PM	#15
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by robysue First a big thank you to everybody for all the suggestions for things to try. The steep learning curves for these programs are not particularly intimidating to me---it seems quite possible to learn the basics well enough to do a credible job of cleaning up photos reasonably quickly and then start looking into the fancy bells-and-whistles when I've got a photo or two that is worthy of spending time learning the fancier stuff.... Finally I'll add that I've already discovered that editing the same raw photo in various pieces of software is quite illuminating: Certain things seem to be easier or harder in the various pieces of software that I've already tried. And it's been quite interesting to see how subtle differences in the white balance algorithms seem to play out While I'm in general a Lightroom 6 user there's specific tasks better served by DxO Photolab, various Topaz AI programs, Luminar 4, or PS. All programs I have and use at least semi-regularly. I haven't found a single package that does everything I'd like to accomplish efficiently and/or easily, so I use the tools from an assortment of software. On the other hand I have a buddy who does everything on Photoshop and very well I might add and what he can't do there obviously doesn't need to be done in his opinion.