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01-02-2020, 06:37 PM   #31
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In regards to the Adobe subscription model, be aware that some products require an upgrade purchase for other than the most minor of version increments. The price of such may be quite close to that of an Adobe subscription.


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01-02-2020, 07:00 PM   #32
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Note that there is one feature of the latest version of ON1 that might be of particular interest to you. It has the ability to read your LightRoom catalogs and reproduce the edits you've made to image files in LightRoom using the equivalent commands within ON1, with a few exceptions. For instance it doesn't attempt to reproduce specific transforms that you've made within LightRoom's Transform pane because it doesn't know the reference points that you used for the transforms. There are a few more that they don't currently reproduce, but they are working to fill in those holes. However, it gets so many of the edits correct that it significantly reduces the amount of re-editing required to get a final image within ON1 that comes close to matching what you've already done within LightRoom. The biggest hurdle with this is that it does, necessarily, take a very long time to perform this step and with a relatively slow computer (and a large number of images to process) the time required may be prohibitive. Of course, as long as the version of LightRoom that you are using continues to work, this might not be too important to you.
01-02-2020, 07:17 PM - 2 Likes   #33
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A photographer named J. Cristina made several videos about various options on photo editors ranging from free to paid (high end) for those wanting to switch from Lightroom/Adobe (here: Life After Adobe - Cutting The Adobe Cord - YouTube) which I think may help out a bit.
01-02-2020, 07:18 PM   #34
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I have found this challenging. Try to think of things you would really miss, and then make sure they are there and work to your satisfaction. One of the things that has been a deal breaker for me with a variety of the software mentioned is a lack of editing history that is preserved and allows you to easily step to any given edit forever into the future. Some of the software only has a simple "undo", and it's only good for that session. As I tried On1 2019, I was happy to see a detailed change history I could go through in my test session, but when I exited the program, went back in, the changes I had made with my test image were no longer accessible, and I can't click on any point in time in the edit history like I can in LightRoom. And to be clear, yes, the different edit modes show what I've tweaked, e.g. highlight is now 8 instead of 0, so it's not that these are destructive to the RAW file and you can't get back to it's initial state, it's that you can't stop the work, resume at a different session, and decide you want to go back 4 steps to whatever point and take it from there. So It's this type of thing that I've found to be a real gotcha. For the moment, I've continued using my old copy of LR 6.14 and some of the Topaz software as my main editors. I mangle exif data with a batch file to fake out Lr into thinking my K-1 II images are from a K-1 - less than eloquent, but it works. Still looking at options and new releases, but haven't found the right one yet.


Last edited by clickclick; 01-06-2020 at 06:34 PM.
01-02-2020, 07:28 PM - 2 Likes   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
A photographer named J. Cristina made several videos about various options on photo editors ranging from free to paid (high end) for those wanting to switch from Lightroom/Adobe (here: Life After Adobe - Cutting The Adobe Cord - YouTube) which I think may help out a bit.
Another helpful link if you're looking for reasons to find an Adobe alternative. Thanks for sharing it.

But this is probably the link you meant to post:
Skip the first 7 minutes.
01-02-2020, 07:35 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I have fond this challenging. Try to think of things you would really miss, and then make sure they are there and work to your satisfaction. One of the things that has been a deal breaker for me with a variety of the software mentioned is a lack of editing history that is preserved and allows you to easily step to any given edit forever into the future. Some of the software only has a simple "undo", and it's only good for that session. As I tried On1 2019, I was happy to see a detailed change history I could go through in my test session, but when I exited the program, went back in, the changes I had made with my test image were no longer accessible, and I can't click on any point in time in the edit history like I can in LightRoom. And to be clear, yes, the different edit modes show what I've tweaked, e.g. highlight is now 8 instead of 0, so it's not that these are destructive to the RAW file and you can't get back to it's initial state, it's that you can't stop the work, resume at a different session, and decide you want to go back 4 steps to whatever point and take it from there. So It's this type of thing that I've found to be a real gotcha. For the moment, I've continued using my old copy of LR 6.14 and some of the Topaz software as my main editors. I mangle exif data with a batch file to fake out Lr into thinking my K-1 II images are from a K-1 - less than eloquent, but it works. Still looking at options and new releases, but haven't found the right one yet.
I believe this problem has been solved in ON1Photo RAW 2020, which was recently released.
01-02-2020, 07:49 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by subsea Quote
I believe this problem has been solved in ON1Photo RAW 2020, which was recently released.
I'll have to check it out. They made big improvements in 2019, but didn't have it quite dialed in. Thanks.
01-02-2020, 08:12 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I'll have to check it out. They made big improvements in 2019, but didn't have it quite dialed in. Thanks.
I don't recall if I've even used my copy of it yet, but it's still 2020. I'd love to see them succeed and will make a point of seeing if the processing speeds have improved noticeably. That's been my major issue with On1. The interface oddities and their predilection to change things up from year to year is simply a minor frustration. Still looks like the best possibility of being a unified LR/PS replacement if they'll just pay a lot more attention to fixing their inefficient code.

01-02-2020, 08:17 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I mangle exif data with a batch file to fake out Lr into thinking my K-1 II images are from a K-1 - less than eloquent, but it works.
I don't know if this will work, but I was able to edit the dcp files for the K-3II to be recognized for the K-3 by LR 6.14.
01-02-2020, 08:29 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
I don't recall if I've even used my copy of it yet, but it's still 2020. I'd love to see them succeed and will make a point of seeing if the processing speeds have improved noticeably. That's been my major issue with On1. The interface oddities and their predilection to change things up from year to year is simply a minor frustration. Still looks like the best possibility of being a unified LR/PS replacement if they'll just pay a lot more attention to fixing their inefficient code.
I purchased an upgrade to the 2019 version when I saw what looked like the type of history recall I was looking for. It was only going back after doing some edits and wanting to step back a few steps that I realized it was lost when I closed it down. When 2020 came out, I put it on the re-eval list, but hadn't gotten around to it.
01-02-2020, 08:36 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I don't know if this will work, but I was able to edit the dcp files for the K-3II to be recognized for the K-3 by LR 6.14.
I'm using exiftool to change the UniqueCameraModel tag to read PENTAX K-1 and then back to PENTAX K-1 Mark II. I have it setup with shortcuts pointing to simple batch files with the command, so I can drag and drop a DNG onto the appropriate shortcut to basically toggle it one way or the other.
01-03-2020, 01:24 AM   #42
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A boatload of commendably-useful advice in this thread already. A bit like when you're having your first child. But I have found in various situations in life that the ultimate proof of the pudding is in the eating. At some point, you got to stop simply believing and start trying out things, particularly when it doesn't hurt and nothing can go disastrously wrong. Otherwise, you will be none the wiser and just be dealing in ifs and buts, and you will never know if a particular course of action works for yourself. At least that has been my experience.
01-03-2020, 03:59 AM   #43
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Had this chat with a friend recently. I pay for the subscription too and I'm happy to pay for it because I feel I get incredible value. LR with its cataloguing and synchronisation is a must for my needs, and I visit PS frequently which is arguably the most advanced editor of them all. I also use various plugins and presets which has tied me somewhat into the ecosystem but it does help enormously. Lastly I use the Adobe Portfolio which acts as a website of sorts.

I can understand how some might feel ripped off if all they use is LR, I'm seeing a lot of Toapz users here and really combining them in PS with masking and layering is so much better and faster than what I find their own masking tools/brush work provides.

I think the price of C1 is about 3yrs worth of adobe subscription, so I'm not really sure I see the subscription thing to being a rip off, just rather a different way of paying for your software. I'm sure users of C1 will be paying for something more in 3yrs time after owning it, or worse swapping all over again to another platform. For now I am sticking with Adobe.
01-03-2020, 04:55 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I think the price of C1 is about 3yrs worth of adobe subscription, so I'm not really sure I see the subscription thing to being a rip off, just rather a different way of paying for your software. I'm sure users of C1 will be paying for something more in 3yrs time after owning it, or worse swapping all over again to another platform.
This might be true if you assume Adobe will not rise prices in the next three years. But actually they can do what ever they like and you will end up with paying or you will no longer be able to edit older photos. To me this is a really bad dependency which is to avoid, even if i pay more in the end. With classic infinite licenses you know you could use your program as long as your hardware runs, with a subscription, you know nothing. I know it's a trend in general and very convenient for sw companies, but whats your benefit? Would you rent a property without knowing what the price is next year and maybe even lose acces to your stuff? Quite exagerating here, i know


Maybe i'm not aware of some guarantees you get on future rise in price or access, so please correct me if im wrong. But there's two very important things:
1. Guaranteed access and possibility to edit as long as you like
2. Paying for new SW when you like

But i see your point, if you use LR and PS, with reasonable behaviour on the part of Adobe, the deal can be fair for now.
01-03-2020, 02:29 PM - 2 Likes   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by chochichaeschtli Quote
This might be true if you assume Adobe will not rise prices in the next three years. But actually they can do what ever they like and you will end up with paying or you will no longer be able to edit older photos. To me this is a really bad dependency which is to avoid, even if i pay more in the end. With classic infinite licenses you know you could use your program as long as your hardware runs, with a subscription, you know nothing. I know it's a trend in general and very convenient for sw companies, but whats your benefit? Would you rent a property without knowing what the price is next year and maybe even lose acces to your stuff? Quite exagerating here, i know


Maybe i'm not aware of some guarantees you get on future rise in price or access, so please correct me if im wrong. But there's two very important things:
1. Guaranteed access and possibility to edit as long as you like
2. Paying for new SW when you like

But i see your point, if you use LR and PS, with reasonable behaviour on the part of Adobe, the deal can be fair for now.
Valid points.

I guess some aspects of the conversation missing would be this;

1) Adobe is supported the best by industry professionals. Yes C1 is getting some traction but its not in the same league as PS support. If you want to really advance your PP skills then Adobe is the way
2) The subscription does actually give frequent updates, you stay up to date with the latest features and improvements, which can actually be really quite significant.
3) With C1 for example you pay a lot upfront, and the support during your ownership is limited to just camera and lens support, not features. This industry is moving fast, being on a standalone editor for 3yrs is quite long time and you could be missing out on some handy additional tools or computational photography advantages. If you want the latest and greatest version of C1 always you will be paying for it.

I'm no Adobe fan, I just look at things from a 5-10yrs perspective, and I'm not sure at all that Adobe would be the one to take the most cash off you in the long run. It's like buying a pc, you think you're done with it when you have spent your $2k on a new machine. Nope... you'll buy another one eventually after a few years because you will still be needing one, a better one, one that can keep up. It's only good value if you're going to do something for 1yr and then stop, in which case Adobe would actually be great value

There are some subscription based software I have not gotten on boards with, MS Office 365 for example. I know I want just Word, Excel and Outlook, I bought the standalone versions of this ($160) and has/will do me fine for another 5yrs, I really don't need the latest and greatest up to date versions of those tools.

So in summary I think much of this depends on the end user, where they are at with editing. The more advanced you become the more you can see PS has an edge other software doesn't seem to have (or as well implemented), if you shoot professionally such as events then LR's cataloguing and synchronisation becomes a must. I'm just not sure I have found anything that can replace those two systems adequately, for less money and better (and the new learning curve is off putting because it really is a cost in and of itself).
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