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10-21-2020, 09:28 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by dms Quote
If you can get it photoshop CS6 has an outstanding camera raw editor (2012 version). Also photoshop can do pretty much anything so it will allow you to grow w/ it. But looking forward eventually (w/ newer computers) you will have to use the later adobe version and thus a monthly fee.

(BTW I don't trust Lightroom when it comes to storing/managing files--so I never considered it.)**

____
** Not meant as criticism, just I am wary of (as I understand it) of not being in 100% control of the process/choices.
@DMS, AFAIK the raw files are always safe as Lightroom doesn't touch them so even in worst case if Lightroom becomes completely inoperable your raw files will still be there. What you will lose is all the processing work you did on the files, the cataloguing and classification etc. Whatever you do with lightroom it leaves the original raw files alone and stores the changes separately in that catalogue. It does not even ad the tags to the raw files. I also regularly backup up the hard-disks so even if something does happen the raw files I will only lose the last few. Even so I generally only delete the raw files from SD card after I have done the backup, so if the hard disk gives up before I made a backup I still have the originals on the SD card.

To protect also your processing work just make sure you export the pictures after processing them, even if just as jpeg. You will not be able to go back to re-edit them but you will at least have the result of your hard work.
With regards to cataloguing you will also partially save your work by exporting jpegs as they will contain the EXIF tags which preserve much of the information needed to catalogue them in some other application. If you had not exported the photos you will lose all the tagging information as LR doesn't write the tags into the exif of the original raw file but it does write them into the files it exports. So any other application that can catalogue photos based on tags will work with the exported photos.

10-21-2020, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I have used Darktable for a couple years, but since release 3.x I have not been getting the results that I want, and I think the new modules are harder to use and take longer to get to where I want.
So I'm using Rawtherapee mostly, and Rawtherapee has come a long way since I first had used it a few years ago. The workflow has gotten faster which I appreciate.
Sometimes I still use Corel Aftershot Pro 3, which I still have - especially when I want to just process a bunch of JPEGs quickly - the "Perfectly Clear" algorithm works nicely for that and the workflow is super fast. But the RAW converter is pretty bad, especially for newer cameras.
I forgot to mention, I also use PaintShop Pro 2018, which I bought bundled with Corel Aftershot Pro 3 and a couple more Corel pieces for a super low price earlier this year... while I'm sure it's not as good as Photoshop, the key word here is "value" And it's much easier to use than GIMP which I also have but don't use much. I just ordered five 8x11 albums and a lot of the pictures were retouched with PSP 2018, including some photo collages, and it's fast and easy to use. Let's see how the prints turn out.

Finally, like Des I also use Microsoft ICE (Image Composite Editor) for stitches and I find that it works very, very well.
10-21-2020, 10:44 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
If you had not exported the photos you will lose all the tagging information as LR doesn't write the tags into the exif of the original raw file but it does write them into the files it exports.
Is this also true on DNG? I thought LR would write EXIF to the DNG if using that RAW format.
10-21-2020, 11:15 AM - 1 Like   #34
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I use SILKYPIX Developer Studio Pro 10.

10-21-2020, 12:00 PM - 1 Like   #35
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After reading nice things about Rawtherapee here, perhaps it's time to give another go.
10-21-2020, 12:56 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Is this also true on DNG? I thought LR would write EXIF to the DNG if using that RAW format.
I've just checked again now. I used exif-tool on the original DNG of a picture that has tags in lightroom and I do not see the tags anywhere in the original DNG.

In the exported files I do find the tags as expected, both if I export as DNG as well as if I export as jpeg.
10-21-2020, 01:26 PM - 2 Likes   #37
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My first step is culling the DNGs using FastRawViewer - which is so good that I stopped using geeqie under Linux for that purpose and use FastRawViewer via wine instead. I even bought a 2nd license - the first one sits on our laptop and my (dual boot) Windows.

Afterwards it's pretty much what already has been mentioned above: I feel at home and have used Rawtherapee exclusively for a long time, now doing more in Darktable - for it's lightweight DAM features and local changes, i.e. ability to mask and use multiple instances of a module. Mostly using the scene-referred workflow and processing does seem to be more robust against artifacts than what I was used to. I do occasionally boot into Windows for DxO (V9 full, V10 standard edition) stuff or for DeepSkyStacker, CombineZP or Picolay, started to look into ICE for simple panos. Sometimes I edit or blend things using Gimp, do panos and reprojection of fish-eye photos into different geometries in Hugin. Cataloging and arrangement into 'albums', as well as simple RAW processing still uses Picasa - because that's what my main 'customer' knows how to use :-) Luckily Picasa and Darktable can nicely co-exist on the same data.


Occasionally I start with LuminanceHDR on extreme contrast scenes (like moon + moonlit landscape), but it always takes me a while to produce a natural look.
10-21-2020, 01:44 PM   #38
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Thread moved to appropriate sub-forum.

I use Lightroom Classic for RAW development.

10-21-2020, 02:45 PM   #39
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As usual, I seem to be in a majority of one. I use IrfanView / XnView / FastStone - all free, and I have never yet found a DNG file I cannot process to achieve the result I am seeking.
10-21-2020, 03:11 PM   #40
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darktable.

Cheers,
Terry
10-21-2020, 03:33 PM - 4 Likes   #41
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My recommendation: Settle on a program and get to know it well

As we're seeing in this thread, there are numerous really good post-processing programs for developing RAW files or tweaking the developed image.

One thing that I've learned is that it pays to settle on a package that you like and get to know it really well. Whether it's a free application, a one-time purchase, or a subscription, I think that it's crucial to learn the program, use it consistently, and experiment with its features. Jumping from program to program, or abandoning one for another that advertises the latest 'great feature' is probably not going to allow a user to become proficient.

In my case, I've settled on RawTherapee. I required a fair amount of usage to become comfortable and familiar with the program, but now I can process a file quite quickly, zipping around the various panels and tools. A while ago, I was using or playing with three different programs, which wasn't efficient.

- Craig
10-21-2020, 03:33 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Curious what you mean with this. I've been a Lightroom user for a long time with no issues but you have me concerned I'm missing something.
I have not tried/investigated Lightroom, so more likely I am missing something but:

1. it was my understanding I could not set up my own directories and store my pp raw files, with all my changes, etc., and problems if I no longer have/use Lightroom.
2. I occasionally read about people losing some of their prior work/odd things about how it stores everything.

I believe item 1 is consistent w/ post by lister6520.
10-21-2020, 06:23 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by dms Quote
it was my understanding I could not set up my own directories and store my pp raw files, with all my changes, etc., and problems if I no longer have/use Lightroom.
- No this is incorrect. Lightroom cares not where you place your RAW files, nor does it move them into its own structure. It uses a catalog system with pointers in the catalog to the location of the RAW file. My directory structure has carried over from long before Lightroom and consists of a folder system like this YYYY/YYYY-MM-DD. So that there is a folder for every day that images were taken. If Lightroom went away my directory structure remains untouched.
- However, Lightroom does keep the edits in the catalog not in the RAW file. The exception to this DNG. But you have to specifically tell it to save out the edit info. If you do it saves the metadata including edit info into the DNG or if using a proprietary RAW format it saves that info into an XMP 'sidecar' file. Those files and edit information can then be read back into another install of Lightroom.

- As to #2, I don't know what to say, I have been a LR user since I think 2012ish and never lost anything. But as this thread proves there are many other options and Adobe has caused a lot of people to leave with the subscription model. I only wanted to point out what I believe was a misunderstanding on how LR stores files. (It doesn't store files, only pointers to files)
10-22-2020, 12:22 AM   #44
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Adobe did a big new release yesterday. Updates for LR and a complete new version of Photoshop.

Want to replace the sky in an image ? .... can be done in two minutes. No selecting and masking yourself, PS does it for you, and what is even better adds all the edits to your file as layers so you can add final tweaks if you want.

For PS users this is worth a look........
10-22-2020, 02:09 AM   #45
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I am surprised how high a profile Darktable has here in the Pentax world. And Linux for that matter.
For me it is Digikam for image management then Darktable opening as a plugin for Gimp and then Gimp for the finishing touches.
And Hugin for panoramas.
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