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02-01-2021, 11:35 AM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Do you have ODBC drivers installed in your OS, Steve?
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is the approach I am currently pursuing, only with JDBC (is OS agnostic). ODBC will be the next in line if the JDBC approach fails.
ODBC was a no-go (insert long and detailed explanation here), but I did get JDBC to work using the UCanAccess drivers. The next step is to decide whether to export the schema/data to a different database (SQLite?) or simply coast along with this solution.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 02-01-2021 at 11:42 AM.
02-01-2021, 07:28 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
So, if I understand correctly, your argument is that software vendors should support previous superseded versions of their software in perpetuity? Like that's going happen.
I'm wondering exactly what people think "support ended for that product years ago" means?
02-02-2021, 12:43 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
So, if I understand correctly, your argument is that software vendors should support previous superseded versions of their software in perpetuity?
"Support" means adding new things, supporting users with new issues.

Here we just talk about a product NOT FAILING early on.

The truth is, this is much worse than any SDM or solenoid issues we have seen users whine about here as it is much easier and cheaper to fix.

In your distorted "logic" a "perpetual" license Adobe product is free to completely fail after 2 years, which basically is stealing money from customers.

I hope all your cameras and lenses fall apart 2 years after production (regardless when you bought it) and you defend this then.

At least we now have a reference for any thread where somebody complains about a product problem. We just compare it to announcement date and tell them to shut up if it's two years or longer ago. If they can spend a lot of money on software then they all clearly have enough to frequently replace lenses and cameras.
02-02-2021, 01:57 AM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
"Support" means adding new things, supporting users with new issues.

Here we just talk about a product NOT FAILING early on.

The truth is, this is much worse than any SDM or solenoid issues we have seen users whine about here as it is much easier and cheaper to fix.

In your distorted "logic" a "perpetual" license Adobe product is free to completely fail after 2 years, which basically is stealing money from customers.

I hope all your cameras and lenses fall apart 2 years after production (regardless when you bought it) and you defend this then.

At least we now have a reference for any thread where somebody complains about a product problem. We just compare it to announcement date and tell them to shut up if it's two years or longer ago. If they can spend a lot of money on software then they all clearly have enough to frequently replace lenses and cameras.
Adobe never said that a perpetual license would end after two years. Before the subscription, your version of LR would last a year (the time between major releases). Once the version went from version x to x+1 support for adding features and fixing bugs stopped on version x. That's how software works. Adobe did it (pre-subscription), Phase One does it (just ask Class A he can go on for pages) and I imaging Affinity, RT, Darktable and GIMP do it too. Just go and ask any of them to patch a version of their software that is multiple revs out of production. Google does it with Android, Apple does it with MacOS, iOS and Microsoft does it with Windows. Although the lifetime of EOL announcements for OS's tend to last longer than the next major release.

Your logic is the one that is distorted, Adobe LR v6.14's Map Module is based on Google's API. Google changed the API after Adobe stated that LR v6.14 was EOL.

I have LR v6.14 loaded on two devices, the only module that does not work is the Map Module because of Google. I prefer Capture One for post processing and I pay for it every year. I do not use last years version so no, your false logic argument does not apply. My camera does not have the solenoid issue, yet. I have sent my 18-50 SMD back to get fixed, but it was under warrantee - no problem there. It is well discussed here that Ricoh/Pentax will not/can not fix old lenses or bodies. I would imagine that Fuji would not fix my Fujica AZ-1 that I bought in the late 70's - does that make Fuji bad? Just after I updated LR to v6.14, Adobe added the dehaze feature, but not in v6.14. LR had gone to v7.0 and LR v6.x was not longer supported - so it goes.

Failure of the Map Module in LR is "fixable" by using Adobe's subscription and getting the current version - along with ongoing support and new features as long as you pay. Once you stop paying, the Map Module, Develop Module will stop working - by design.

02-02-2021, 02:43 AM - 2 Likes   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
"Support" means adding new things, supporting users with new issues.
No, that's not what support means at all. Support mean ensuring the product works for the intended time period, which with most software is about a year these days. AutoDesk AutoCAD, for instance, went from version 14 to '95, to '98, to 2000, to 2002 to 2004 and from then on it's been annually, every year since. Microsoft has been rather nice supporting Windows 7 for longer than they said they would. But if you're not on Windows 10 now, then good luck!

QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Here we just talk about a product NOT FAILING early on.
The product has not failed. It continues to function. A bit of functionality not part of the main part of the software, and supported by Google, no longer works but did work until past the end of support date.

QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The truth is, this is much worse than any SDM or solenoid issues we have seen users whine about here as it is much easier and cheaper to fix.
No, and I think you're just continuing to argue the point because you'd hate to admit being wrong.

QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
In your distorted "logic" a "perpetual" license Adobe product is free to completely fail after 2 years, which basically is stealing money from customers.
That's just it. It has not completely failed. The software provider is most certainly not stealing. They have provided a product that continues to largely function as intended.

As other members have already pointed out:


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
...The core functionality of LR 6.14 continues and works just fine with current version OSs. New lens and camera model support has so far not been a problem at least for features shared between camera and LR 6.14.

Most of us using LR 6.14 continue to be happy campers and use that extra $10 USD per month for the occasional burger and fries.


QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I hope all your cameras and lenses fall apart 2 years after production (regardless when you bought it) and you defend this then.
Gee, thanks! As some of my gear was purchased in the USA where there are very poor standard warranties, I have purchased extended warranties for some of that gear. In New Zealand, we have this wonderful Act of Parliament, called the Consumer Guarantees Act. Basically, in a nutshell, it says that any product you buy can be expected to last the reasonable amount of time for that type of product. In most cases therefore, I would have better cover here than elsewhere. Be that as it may, if a camera or lens failed after 2 years I would not be happy, but I would also not accuse the camera manufacturer of thievery. But, as we know Lightroom 6 still works, this would be more a case of the camera being absolutely fine but the battery giving up the ghost. Your analogy is not only wrong but also pretty unkind.

QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
At least we now have a reference for any thread where somebody complains about a product problem. We just compare it to announcement date and tell them to shut up if it's two years or longer ago. If they can spend a lot of money on software then they all clearly have enough to frequently replace lenses and cameras.
Again, re-read what PDL said:

QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
Precisely my point. Once the software is no longer under support, if parts break (either like the Google part of the maps module or some really bad security issue) you are on your own.

It is important to remember, that LR v6 standalone came out in 2015 with version 6.14 coming out in 2017 (if the details from my install are to be believed). Support for perpetual license LR 6.14 ended in 2018. The map module stopped working in 2018 - which was AFTER Adobe's end of support date. Google changed its map API in 2018 and broke many, many sites to this day. The Map Module failure was not Adobe's issue, it was Google's.

Software ages, support ends, third party add-ons break - life goes on.
My advice to you is to take a deep breath and understand that you're dealing with software that is now 5 years past it's manufacturing date. For software, that's practically the Jurassic age. And, what's more, most of the functionality of that software is still absolutely fine.
02-02-2021, 07:29 AM - 2 Likes   #66
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This is getting to be an embarrassment.

Adobe withdrew support for the product (5?) years ago, which means NO MORE UPDATES. Google withdrew support for their older plug in, which Adobe had incorporated into the NOW UNSUPPORTED software.

How is this dropping of support Adobe's fault?
If one wants to lay it at someone's feet, the culprit here is Google for not supporting their plug in.

Meanwhile, Adobe withdrew support for the product (5?) years ago, which means NO MORE UPDATES.
No more updates for Camera Raw, no more new and improved added features, etc.

Yes, I know I'm being repetitive, but at this point, it seems to be necessary.

It's funny how we accept that when support ends, the software loses the ability to decode proprietary Raw files from cameras made after the end of life date, but it is somehow hard to accept that when support ends, proprietary third party plug ins lose support when they are updated.
02-02-2021, 01:27 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
"Support" means adding new things, supporting users with new issues.

Here we just talk about a product NOT FAILING early on.

The truth is, this is much worse than any SDM or solenoid issues we have seen users whine about here as it is much easier and cheaper to fix.

In your distorted "logic" a "perpetual" license Adobe product is free to completely fail after 2 years, which basically is stealing money from customers.

I hope all your cameras and lenses fall apart 2 years after production (regardless when you bought it) and you defend this then.

At least we now have a reference for any thread where somebody complains about a product problem. We just compare it to announcement date and tell them to shut up if it's two years or longer ago. If they can spend a lot of money on software then they all clearly have enough to frequently replace lenses and cameras.
Have you ever owned a car that had a component failure after two years ?
02-02-2021, 02:00 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Have you ever owned a car that had a component failure after two years ?
That's a rhetorical question, right?

02-02-2021, 04:18 PM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Have you ever owned a car that had a component failure after two years ?
Yes, 1995 Eagle Talon TSI. Crank walk, failed just after the std warrantee ran out.

The dealership offered to cut the price on a Oldsmobile (joint Oldsmobile/Eagle dealership) but who would want to go from a Talon TSI to a grandpa's car? I had to pay for a short block as I did not purchase the extended warrantee (stupid thing to have not done).

The water pump failed a year or so later, but that was easily fixed. I kept the car until 2008 and it had over 170K miles on it. Just before Montana set speed limits I ran it on the Interstate at 115mph for a few miles. The wife and son were a little worried (the front end started to get a "little light") so I slowed down to 90mph for the duration of the trip.

I tend to drive my cars into the ground, every one that I owned left me with over 150K miles on it after 5-14 years of ownership. I am running a 2008 Subaru now, but it only has 60K on it. I don't drive 30 miles a day to and from work any more.

So what is your point again?
02-02-2021, 04:37 PM   #70
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There's probably a virtual machine that would allow for the date to be set to 2015. Set that, host Windows 7 and LR6 there + some version of Photoshop or whatever other editing tools you want, and do your work in the VM. I don't think LR6 is completely happy with my Windows 10 installation so this might actually fix my strange issue where file imports into LR6 crash the program itself if I haven't recently rebooted the computer. That issue is pretty easy to deal with though so I haven't bothered with something this extreme.

I keep hoping some 3rd party application clones all of LR6 but it doesn't seem like it's quite happened yet. I really like having it automatically catalog my images and how it handles edits and plugins. I'll keep using it until it's broken in a way that really slows me down. Currently that isn't the case.
02-02-2021, 05:09 PM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
So what is your point again?
I think my point was self evident.
02-02-2021, 09:12 PM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
There's probably a virtual machine that would allow for the date to be set to 2015. Set that, host Windows 7 and LR6 there + some version of Photoshop or whatever other editing tools you want, and do your work in the VM. I don't think LR6 is completely happy with my Windows 10 installation so this might actually fix my strange issue where file imports into LR6 crash the program itself if I haven't recently rebooted the computer. That issue is pretty easy to deal with though so I haven't bothered with something this extreme.

I keep hoping some 3rd party application clones all of LR6 but it doesn't seem like it's quite happened yet. I really like having it automatically catalog my images and how it handles edits and plugins. I'll keep using it until it's broken in a way that really slows me down. Currently that isn't the case.
The API for Google Maps is does not run differently on a VM than a bare metal installation. Once Google changed the API, all instances of using maps with the now outdated API still fail. Setting the date to 2015 will not change anything. Remember, LR v6.14 works as advertised except for the Map Module. No need for a VM and a older than OS version. I run LR v6.14 on two x64 Windows boxes, a 2008 Toshiba laptop and a 2014 era desktop. It works just fine - except for the Map Module. It even works with my K-3II, so PEF's and DNG's work, I use it for building panorama and creating JPEG's to share with family and friends while on vacations. (Something I will not be doing for most likely several more years - then I will be too old to care)
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