Last Lightroom Version with Permanent License Becomes Less Useful

alamo5000 · 01-31-2021, 12:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Digitalis

I will expand upon this further later on but at some point someone has to ask: Do subscriptions really make software better?

It helps upgrade from a 40 foot long boat to a 200 foot yacht.

pschlute · 01-31-2021, 12:35 PM - **1 Like**

If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product.

Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly.

If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription.

What is the issue ?

**RobA_Oz** · 01-31-2021, 02:19 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by pschlute

If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product.

Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly.

If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription.

What is the issue ?

Are you talking about the OP or the others in this thread? From what I read, the OP’s issue was that some functionality was withdrawn, and that the only answer was to upgrade to the latest, which happened to be only available as a subscription. If I interpret the complaint correctly, it wasn’t because of anything the OP had done.

I speak as a user of Adobe CS5 (for 8 years, not 3, and CS3 for 5 years before that), that continues to work on my older Macs, but who chose to buy a new machine on which it doesn’t. If I’d chosen to buy CS6, I wouldn’t have this problem, but I’m not griping about Adobe (or Apple, come to that) – I simply chose an option that seems to be offering better value for money than Adobe’s subscription service. Others have said they’re doing precisely the same thing, and some have said they don’t like the subscription model.

I see no cause to complain about the complaint.

**ThorSanchez** · 01-31-2021, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by pschlute

If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product.

Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly.

If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription.

What is the issue ?

For a long time Adobe charged a set price for Lightroom. You could keep it as long as you want for one set fee. Lightroom is a fairly involved piece of software that has essentially a database of every one of potentially many thousands of raw files and the non-destructive edits you've done to those file. This is a proprietary structure that can be very challenging (nearly impossible) to take to another program with those non-destructive edits still available. Many businesses and clients apparently require you to use Adobe products since they are "industry standards". And switching programs involves a long transition period where you figure out how to do things you learned years ago in Adobe products.

So the issue is that many people feel like the hurdle to migrate is so difficult that they'll just pay 2, 3, 4 times as much for essentially the same functionality they used to get out of a stand-alone license and the freedom to upgrade when they want.

I don't really care, I moved on and sucked it up and learned a whole new system. Others may not find that as reasonable a choice, so they just pay a lot more money to Adobe than they used to.

**Rondec** · 01-31-2021, 03:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pschlute

If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product.

Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly.

If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription.

What is the issue ?

The issue is that I don't want the bundle Adobe offers (I have no use for full Photoshop). If they offered a Lightroom only subscription for 40 dollars a year I would definitely buy it.

As to why I don't go elsewhere, it is a combination of inertia (I still own Lightroom 6) and aggravation of figuring out a new interface, short cut keys, etc. I'm used to Lightroom and can make it work pretty easily. Moving on to ON1 or some other piece of software would demand more time commitment on my part that I don't particularly want to go through right now.

MarkJerling · 01-31-2021, 03:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by beholder3

It is clearly Adobe's fault alone to sell a product with components (from whomever) which fail after some time.
Nobody needs to care about a sellers' subcontractors. Adobe could have easily made lasting agreements with their subcontractor. They didn't. And there is no evidence this wasn't Adobe's greed mixed with their incompetency.
Basically they are stealing functions from their naive customers.

That's Adobe's own negligence and anti-customer greed action. It just makes everything worse. Adobe software lifespan is just ridiculous.

Yep. Adobe's greed again. "You are on your own" describes it pretty well. The exact antipode to customer service.

Correct.

Nobody needs to care which of Adobe's subcontractors changes anything. It's all attributable to Adobe as the party who sold the feature for a price.

If your pipes had failed after 1 year or two (whatever Adobe's end of support for customers was for LR 6.14), I bet you would have called the builder.

Basically you express that the K-30 solenoid failing (which they bought from some other party, probably not google but someone else) after Pentax support ending with warranty end is perfectly fine. Pentax had moved on to new models. Interesting.

So, if I understand correctly, your argument is that software vendors should support previous superseded versions of their software in perpetuity? Like that's going happen.

stevebrot · 01-31-2021, 03:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Do you have ODBC drivers installed in your OS, Steve?

That is the approach I am currently pursuing, only with JDBC (is OS agnostic). ODBC will be the next in line if the JDBC approach fails.

Steve

stevebrot · 01-31-2021, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

So the issue is that many people feel like the hurdle to migrate is so difficult that they'll just pay 2, 3, 4 times as much for essentially the same functionality they used to get out of a stand-alone license and the freedom to upgrade when they want.

Either that or they just continue on with the same version. The core functionality of LR 6.14 continues and works just fine with current version OSs. New lens and camera model support has so far not been a problem at least for features shared between camera and LR 6.14.

Most of us using LR 6.14 continue to be happy campers and use that extra $10 USD per month for the occasional burger and fries.

Steve

PDL · 01-31-2021, 06:38 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by MarkJerling

So, if I understand correctly, your argument is that software vendors should support previous superseded versions of their software in perpetuity? Like that's going happen.

Precisely my point. Once the software is no longer under support, if parts break (either like the Google part of the maps module or some really bad security issue) you are on your own.

It is important to remember, that LR v6 standalone came out in 2015 with version 6.14 coming out in 2017 (if the details from my install are to be believed). Support for perpetual license LR 6.14 ended in 2018. The map module stopped working in 2018 - which was AFTER Adobe's end of support date. Google changed its map API in 2018 and broke many, many sites to this day. The Map Module failure was not Adobe's issue, it was Google's.

For those saying that Adobe is somehow supposed to support old software releases long after their EOL - then maybe they should tell us how well Apple, Google and Microsoft are doing with support of EOLed OS versions. Heck, it is even pretty hard to even get a current version of 32bit Linux these days.

Software ages, support ends, third party add-ons break - life goes on. I have not tried it, but I bet that the LR generated Flash web interface is pretty much toast too.

MarkJerling · 01-31-2021, 07:02 PM

Well said!

**DeepThrob** · 01-31-2021, 08:36 PM

Photoshop hasn't had a significant new feature since content aware.

pschlute · 01-31-2021, 10:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by DeepThrob

Photoshop hasn't had a significant new feature since content aware.

I beg to differ. Here are 21 new features in the last October update

You Tube

In addition ACR has been completely revamped.

**DeepThrob** · 02-01-2021, 12:09 AM

I’ve used CS.5 since it was new. I also have 20 days into the latestdemo. (I do this every couple of years). I’ve never found anything ‘special’enough to conclude ‘hey, I want to spend some money’. Yes, cameraraw has a newinterface and few new features, mainly adjustments that are standard in PS (andbelong in PS). I do like that CR is available as a filter. Otherwise there’s nothing‘significant’ enough to make photoshop more useful (to me). My extendscript panels don’t work with it andthat’s a deadend trainwreck.

**ThorSanchez** · 02-01-2021, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Either that or they just continue on with the same version. The core functionality of LR 6.14 continues and works just fine with current version OSs. New lens and camera model support has so far not been a problem at least for features shared between camera and LR 6.14.

Most of us using LR 6.14 continue to be happy campers and use that extra $10 USD per month for the occasional burger and fries.

Steve

Sure, but the genesis of this thread is functionality that is slowly disappearing in that version. Your '95 Civic was a great car, but at some point you probably have to move on.

stevebrot · 02-01-2021, 11:24 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

Sure, but the genesis of this thread is functionality that is slowly disappearing in that version.

And the truth is that the rate of decay is incredibly slow to the point of being inconsequential. Rather than a Civic, how about I suggest my 2012 Altima Coupe. It is almost ten years old and and the platform saw EOL in 2013. It still turns heads and still drives as nice as when new. However, unlike the Nissan, my copy of LR will never wear out and parts will never by a challenge. When/if parts become a problem for the car (I do keep things that long)*, anger at Nissan would be badly misplaced.

Steve

* Sharing the garage with the Altima is a 1999 Mazda pickup (bought new) and a 1992 Buick Riviera...I also have a lot of old cameras.

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01-31-2021, 12:14 PM - 1 Like	#46
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Originally posted by Digitalis I will expand upon this further later on but at some point someone has to ask: Do subscriptions really make software better? It helps upgrade from a 40 foot long boat to a 200 foot yacht.

01-31-2021, 12:35 PM - 1 Like	#47
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product. Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly. If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription. What is the issue ?

01-31-2021, 02:19 PM - 3 Likes	#48
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by pschlute If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product. Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly. If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription. What is the issue ? Are you talking about the OP or the others in this thread? From what I read, the OP’s issue was that some functionality was withdrawn, and that the only answer was to upgrade to the latest, which happened to be only available as a subscription. If I interpret the complaint correctly, it wasn’t because of anything the OP had done. I speak as a user of Adobe CS5 (for 8 years, not 3, and CS3 for 5 years before that), that continues to work on my older Macs, but who chose to buy a new machine on which it doesn’t. If I’d chosen to buy CS6, I wouldn’t have this problem, but I’m not griping about Adobe (or Apple, come to that) – I simply chose an option that seems to be offering better value for money than Adobe’s subscription service. Others have said they’re doing precisely the same thing, and some have said they don’t like the subscription model. I see no cause to complain about the complaint.

01-31-2021, 02:43 PM	#49
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by pschlute If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product. Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly. If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription. What is the issue ? For a long time Adobe charged a set price for Lightroom. You could keep it as long as you want for one set fee. Lightroom is a fairly involved piece of software that has essentially a database of every one of potentially many thousands of raw files and the non-destructive edits you've done to those file. This is a proprietary structure that can be very challenging (nearly impossible) to take to another program with those non-destructive edits still available. Many businesses and clients apparently require you to use Adobe products since they are "industry standards". And switching programs involves a long transition period where you figure out how to do things you learned years ago in Adobe products. So the issue is that many people feel like the hurdle to migrate is so difficult that they'll just pay 2, 3, 4 times as much for essentially the same functionality they used to get out of a stand-alone license and the freedom to upgrade when they want. I don't really care, I moved on and sucked it up and learned a whole new system. Others may not find that as reasonable a choice, so they just pay a lot more money to Adobe than they used to.

01-31-2021, 03:00 PM - 1 Like	#50
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by pschlute If you dont like the subscription model then go elsewhere. Plenty of other options available. I do not understand the constant gripe about Adobe. They are not forcing you to buy their product. Before subscription you would buy a product and in three years time update it. Today you pay similar amounts over three years but the product is updated regularly. If you no longer want the product, cancel your subscription. What is the issue ? The issue is that I don't want the bundle Adobe offers (I have no use for full Photoshop). If they offered a Lightroom only subscription for 40 dollars a year I would definitely buy it. As to why I don't go elsewhere, it is a combination of inertia (I still own Lightroom 6) and aggravation of figuring out a new interface, short cut keys, etc. I'm used to Lightroom and can make it work pretty easily. Moving on to ON1 or some other piece of software would demand more time commitment on my part that I don't particularly want to go through right now.

01-31-2021, 03:00 PM - 1 Like	#51
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by beholder3 It is clearly Adobe's fault alone to sell a product with components (from whomever) which fail after some time. Nobody needs to care about a sellers' subcontractors. Adobe could have easily made lasting agreements with their subcontractor. They didn't. And there is no evidence this wasn't Adobe's greed mixed with their incompetency. Basically they are stealing functions from their naive customers. That's Adobe's own negligence and anti-customer greed action. It just makes everything worse. Adobe software lifespan is just ridiculous. Yep. Adobe's greed again. "You are on your own" describes it pretty well. The exact antipode to customer service. Correct. Nobody needs to care which of Adobe's subcontractors changes anything. It's all attributable to Adobe as the party who sold the feature for a price. If your pipes had failed after 1 year or two (whatever Adobe's end of support for customers was for LR 6.14), I bet you would have called the builder. Basically you express that the K-30 solenoid failing (which they bought from some other party, probably not google but someone else) after Pentax support ending with warranty end is perfectly fine. Pentax had moved on to new models. Interesting. So, if I understand correctly, your argument is that software vendors should support previous superseded versions of their software in perpetuity? Like that's going happen.

01-31-2021, 03:16 PM - 1 Like	#52
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by BigMackCam Do you have ODBC drivers installed in your OS, Steve? That is the approach I am currently pursuing, only with JDBC (is OS agnostic). ODBC will be the next in line if the JDBC approach fails. Steve

01-31-2021, 03:27 PM	#53
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ThorSanchez So the issue is that many people feel like the hurdle to migrate is so difficult that they'll just pay 2, 3, 4 times as much for essentially the same functionality they used to get out of a stand-alone license and the freedom to upgrade when they want. Either that or they just continue on with the same version. The core functionality of LR 6.14 continues and works just fine with current version OSs. New lens and camera model support has so far not been a problem at least for features shared between camera and LR 6.14. Most of us using LR 6.14 continue to be happy campers and use that extra $10 USD per month for the occasional burger and fries. Steve

01-31-2021, 06:38 PM - 2 Likes	#54
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	Originally posted by MarkJerling So, if I understand correctly, your argument is that software vendors should support previous superseded versions of their software in perpetuity? Like that's going happen. Precisely my point. Once the software is no longer under support, if parts break (either like the Google part of the maps module or some really bad security issue) you are on your own. It is important to remember, that LR v6 standalone came out in 2015 with version 6.14 coming out in 2017 (if the details from my install are to be believed). Support for perpetual license LR 6.14 ended in 2018. The map module stopped working in 2018 - which was AFTER Adobe's end of support date. Google changed its map API in 2018 and broke many, many sites to this day. The Map Module failure was not Adobe's issue, it was Google's. For those saying that Adobe is somehow supposed to support old software releases long after their EOL - then maybe they should tell us how well Apple, Google and Microsoft are doing with support of EOLed OS versions. Heck, it is even pretty hard to even get a current version of 32bit Linux these days. Software ages, support ends, third party add-ons break - life goes on. I have not tried it, but I bet that the LR generated Flash web interface is pretty much toast too.

01-31-2021, 07:02 PM	#55
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Well said!

01-31-2021, 08:36 PM	#56
DeepThrob Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Taos, New Mexico Posts: 295	Photoshop hasn't had a significant new feature since content aware.

02-01-2021, 12:09 AM	#58
DeepThrob Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Taos, New Mexico Posts: 295	I’ve used CS.5 since it was new. I also have 20 days into the latestdemo. (I do this every couple of years). I’ve never found anything ‘special’enough to conclude ‘hey, I want to spend some money’. Yes, cameraraw has a newinterface and few new features, mainly adjustments that are standard in PS (andbelong in PS). I do like that CR is available as a filter. Otherwise there’s nothing‘significant’ enough to make photoshop more useful (to me). My extendscript panels don’t work with it andthat’s a deadend trainwreck.

02-01-2021, 05:55 AM	#59
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by stevebrot Either that or they just continue on with the same version. The core functionality of LR 6.14 continues and works just fine with current version OSs. New lens and camera model support has so far not been a problem at least for features shared between camera and LR 6.14. Most of us using LR 6.14 continue to be happy campers and use that extra $10 USD per month for the occasional burger and fries. Steve Sure, but the genesis of this thread is functionality that is slowly disappearing in that version. Your '95 Civic was a great car, but at some point you probably have to move on.

02-01-2021, 11:24 AM - 2 Likes	#60
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ThorSanchez Sure, but the genesis of this thread is functionality that is slowly disappearing in that version. And the truth is that the rate of decay is incredibly slow to the point of being inconsequential. Rather than a Civic, how about I suggest my 2012 Altima Coupe. It is almost ten years old and and the platform saw EOL in 2013. It still turns heads and still drives as nice as when new. However, unlike the Nissan, my copy of LR will never wear out and parts will never by a challenge. When/if parts become a problem for the car (I do keep things that long), anger at Nissan would be badly misplaced. Steve Sharing the garage with the Altima is a 1999 Mazda pickup (bought new) and a 1992 Buick Riviera...I also have a lot of old cameras.