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05-01-2021, 05:08 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by carlb Quote
I've mostly shot jpg's but want to try RAW processing.......but I'm frankly a bit terrified at the prospect. I've dabbled a bit with Raw Therapee but it seems more complicated than I probably need. I'm not the type to spend hours doing PP so I just need something straightforward without hundreds of options that I might never use and would probably just get confusing. The other day a colleague was telling me about DXO Pure Raw which sounds very easy to use and would probably do about as much PP as I need. I was looking at the DXO website and the reviews are good but the KP and K-1 didn't seem to be on the list of supported camera's. Does that mean that Pure Raw won't work for me?

Or does anyone have recommendations for a relatively simple and easy to use PP program that might suit what I'm looking for. Would things like Darktable and Lightroom be more than I need?

Or should I just stick with jpg's and refine my camera settings?
nothing to be scared of i have used lightroom for years and it is pretty intuitive and lots of you tube videos to help. I moved to DXO as my version got old and i did not want to pay monthly. used to DXO now and have no issues learning it.

05-01-2021, 05:08 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by aaacb Quote
I use darktable, and in some ways it's easier to work with than RawTherapee, and it's also open source and free.

The defaults are a good starting point, it automatically applies a base tone curve that tries to match how the manufacturer sets their default jpegs (so it has different curves by brand). When you first import there's a default look that, for Pentax, looks more or less like the natural jpeg setting (note that the very first image it shows is actually the jpeg preview embedded by the camera in the raw file).

From there, you can start editing one module at a time, let's say "basic adjustments" which gives control over contrast, brightness, some highlight and shadow control, vibrance and saturation.
The best part imo is that any module can have a mask (drawn, parametric, or both), so if you're comfortable with just a few types of edits, you can still refine the image with local edits, which for me is the real advantage of raw processing.
This ! Darktable is quite easy to begin and has powerful modules if you want. I've been using it for a few years now and the improvement is the last couple of years has been amazing. There are plenty of videos on the net to get you started on the Darktable.
05-01-2021, 07:25 AM   #33
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No need to be "terrified" of raw. OTOH, why do you feel like you need to get involved with raw in the first place? Ask that question of yourself and be honest, and then you may see a straighter path. Raw can really save your bacon sometimes, but if you are more of a happy snapper of family, friends, and personal interst subjects, then you are probably better served dialing in your jpgs better in camera and understanding exposure better within your own camera's technicalities.


There are a number of raw developers on the market, and lots of discussion about what is best (I don't believe there is a single answer for all files from all cameras....). I favor Lightroom now, but I'm working professionally in an Adobe environment, and also now need the DAM functionality that Lightroom has. RawTherapee is one of the best available---but it's more of a inveterate tweakers tool, so I don't recommend it for someone like you at this time.

There are open source options, as mentioned, that are free or shareware, and some a very good. I run a volunteer, non-commercial website that gives away the totally free LightZone, but we have not been able to keep it as up to date as we'd like, and there's not a ton of support---it also requires a passing understanding of the Zone System to get the most out of it, and it has some selective editing tricks up its sleeve that are quite nice. Not sure I would recommend it to someone who expressed "terror" at using raw, though, even though it's very easy to use. Also, the print module needs a refresh, even if its uprezzing isn't bad.
05-01-2021, 07:34 AM - 1 Like   #34
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At first I didn't like the idea of having to process all my pictures since it sounded overwhelming and I would always use JPEG. Then I gave RAW a try. Wow, what a difference. It might be time consuming but it gives so much more freedom. It also makes me think about how I should take my future pictures. Never going back to Jpeg

05-01-2021, 07:45 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by steephill Quote
It takes me seconds to work on a RAW shot to get what I want. If it needed hours then I simply didn't get it right in the first place.
I'd say that you haven't had anything extremely challenging you needed to do, then.


As a working museum photographer, everything I do requires a few minutes at least, and many things require 20-30. This past week I had things that had me going back and forth between LR and PS multiple times. A couple of images took more than 2 days of work (not full 2 days in front of the screen, mind you---it's imperative you get away from the screen to let your eyes rest periodically), and one from the weeks prior was multiple days. Don't think other working pros are getting their PP done in "seconds" either for publishable work. These are all cases where raw is essential.


If all it takes is seconds to perform PP, then it means you've got a great preset that does something for you that the jpg engine in the camera won't do for you---good on you for developing that preset!---or maybe you haven't fully explored what the jpg engine can do. I certainly haven't, but I really should, because there are now lots of occasions when I'm using my "B" camera for pure documentation that having quick jpg turnaround would be more helpful than any juice I could squeeze out of the raw. That's a part of my professional practice I'm lagging behind in.
05-01-2021, 01:12 PM   #36
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Back in the day I knew two photographers: #1 shot film, black & white, and his good friend #2 shot colour negative. #2 put his film in at a local processor while #1 developed his own negatives. The big difference between them was when it came to making their own prints – #2 had always accepted the exposure his camera's meter gave him and he had a formulaic printing method of fixed exposure time and unvarying colour filtration. He could turn out twenty 8"x10" colour prints in a few hours while #1 would spend all evening on a couple of B&W prints, varying the contrast, exposure, dodging and burning until he got the image he wanted. #2's were er, acceptable: I can still look at #1's prints with pleasure decades later; they're works of art.

You don't just make prints like that, they're the result of learning and practice. The same goes with processing your own raw files: you can apply presets and get broadly similar results across the board or you can gently, step by step, learn how to turn a raw file into an image you'd be proud of. It's not terrifying, it's fun! And just like making prints from a negative, if you screw up you just go back to the raw file and start again with all the image data your camera captured, unlike working with a jpg file.

I recommend you set your camera to shoot RAW+JPG while you get started so you've got a ready-made image in the can anyway and a reference to what you can do better than . Finally, there are a hundred and one ways of getting a desired result in an image processing program, so if YouTube megastar says there's only his way or the highway, pass him by!
05-01-2021, 01:32 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michail_P Quote
Lots of advice already given. Adobe Camera Raw is as simple as it possibly gets with raw editing. You will learn it fast and get the results you hope for. Basic at first yet powerful and effective if you dig deep.
Do you have a download link for standalone ACR? I searched yesterday, but to no avail.

Oops! I accidentally found it! Links are under "Windows" heading for each version. (Ignore link for Creative Cloud update unless you have that package installed.)

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-in-installer.html

The install is for the ACR Plugin. I suggest installing Adobe Bridge first so there is something to plug in to.

https://www.adobe.com/products/bridge.html


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 05-01-2021 at 02:05 PM. Reason: completeness
05-01-2021, 02:03 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by carlb Quote
Terrified of RAW but want to try out something that's easy to use
Back on topic...

The cool parts about shooting RAW are that:
  • Edits are made using the sensor output as a base line and not a conversion to JPEG. There is a huge difference in what can be done and done cleanly without artifact.
  • Edits are never permanent. Your original stays intact regardless of how many changes you make.
That second point should help allay your terror. If you get hopelessly lost using RawTherapee, Darktable, or whatever, there is always the option of taking your PEF or DNG and using PDCU to process it the same as would have been done in-camera. All of those settings are in the RAW and available for PDCU to replicate exactly, should that be your desire.

As for tools, there are many good suggestions above. I am a Lightroom user, but have never tried using the combination of Adobe Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw plugin. That second approach might provide a relatively easy entry point into RAW processing.


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05-01-2021, 02:49 PM   #39
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I've mostly used Adobe Camera Raw in conjunction with Photoshop, but I have used Lightroom in the past. Shooting in RAW gives you a flexibility that editing JPGs does not provide. Feel free to play around with the sliders and the different settings--you can always discard your changes/experiments and start over if you go down the wrong rabbit hole. After a while, you'll know what you have to do to get the results you want, and editing in RAW will seem quick and painless.
05-01-2021, 03:01 PM   #40
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Thanks for all the replies, there's plenty to think about.
05-01-2021, 06:22 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Do you have a download link for standalone ACR? I searched yesterday, but to no avail.

Oops! I accidentally found it! Links are under "Windows" heading for each version. (Ignore link for Creative Cloud update unless you have that package installed.)

Camera Raw plug-in installer

The install is for the ACR Plugin. I suggest installing Adobe Bridge first so there is something to plug in to.

Digital asset management software | Download free Adobe Bridge trial


Steve
When I try to to open ACR out of Adobe Bridge I see the message:
"Camera Raw editing is not enabled. Camera Raw editing requires that a qualifying product has been licensed."

I do not have Adobe CC license. I have Photoshop element 2018 but it cannot run latest ACR.
05-01-2021, 10:47 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
When I try to to open ACR out of Adobe Bridge I see the message:
"Camera Raw editing is not enabled. Camera Raw editing requires that a qualifying product has been licensed."

I do not have Adobe CC license. I have Photoshop element 2018 but it cannot run latest ACR.
I am having a similar experience. ACR is only available from bridge if one has a subscription to a product such as Photoshop.


Steve
05-04-2021, 04:52 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Lightroom has the easiest interface. Darktable and Raw Therapee are cheaper (free). Darktable is easier to use of the two. RT is probably a bit more robust with regard to what it can do with noise reduction/sharpening/pixel shift.

There are lots of other programs out there. The big thing is to find one that you want to use and then invest time in learning its interface and how to get the most out of it. With Lightroom there are a number of books that will give you pointers on using it that could be helpful -- not sure about the other programs.
I sometimes see people saying that Darktable is easier to use than RawTherapee. I found the opposite to be true. Maybe it's just me, but I'd suggest trying both and deciding which is better for the individual.

Two other RawTherapee observations:
1) There's a thread here by TheSquirrelMafia with all kinds of preset PP3 files for RT. Once you've set up dynamic rules to use those most of the work is done for you. I'll sheepishly admit I don't have much expertise on noise reduction on RT because I have it set up to use those PP3 files for different ISO ranges. It just automatically detects, say, ISO 6400 and applies much more aggressive noise reduction than it would for ISO 100.

2) Someone said RT isn't any good at pulling shadow details. A few versions ago that was probably true, but recent versions have improved that quite a lot. So if you haven't played around with the program in a few years you might want to take another look. Also, for more advanced users you can pull out a lot of details out of a variety of situations if you're willing to use a combination of tone mapping, Retinex and a few other settings.
05-12-2021, 05:12 PM   #44
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Would recommend Lightroom Classic as it is fairly easy to use, and has a lot of help available. The downside is it's by subscription only.
05-22-2021, 02:19 PM   #45
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I have very little experience with RAW editing. I have an old copy of Affinity I have not used for years. Does anyone think it is better to start using it again or switch to Raw Therapee or Darktable or else?
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