Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-08-2021, 06:06 PM   #16
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,169
When I had LR & PS I did 95% of my post processing in LR. I would occasionally export a photo from LR to PS to cleanup something I couldn't do in LR, like using content aware. Of course PS is much more than just photo processing.

I ditched the Adobe subscription and am now learning to use RawTherapee and Pentax DCU. I have an older copy of Photoshop Elements that gives me some PS capabilities if I need them.

05-08-2021, 09:01 PM - 1 Like   #17
Veteran Member
Billk's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 349
QuoteOriginally posted by microlight Quote
With you there BarryE. I have the Lr/PS subscription and use the same workflow as you. I also don’t use Lr and manage my own images! Must be a Hampshire thing.
i'm a long way from Hampshire but do the same thing.
05-08-2021, 09:51 PM   #18
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,256
I am not sure if LightRoom can be compared with Photoshop.

LightRoom on its own seems to be a file manager while Photoshop is more of an image manipulation software. Both LightRoom and Photoshop can use CameraRaw's engine to process Raw file, . Photoshop doesn't do file management and LightRoom doesn't do image editing. When we want to process an image file, LightRoom will call up Cameraraw so we can edit/process things in Cameraraw. On Photoshop, the Cameraraw can be found under Effect menu.

As many had said, I also prefer Bridge > Cameraraw > Export to something else or open in Photoshop as a layer.
Manage and preview images on Bridge is simpler and we can process multiple images with the same setting at once, etc ... but it can be painfully slow to generate the preview if keeps thousands of heavy Raw images in a single directory.

For Adobe CC, you have to pay for subscription and they will give you many software to use +1tb of clouds disk space which can be used as a back up and online sharing space.

Last edited by tokyoscape; 05-08-2021 at 10:44 PM.
05-08-2021, 11:52 PM   #19
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,286
I have an Adobe CC Photography subscription which includes both Lightroom, Lightroom Classic, Bridge, and Photoshop, along with Adobe Portfolio, which is basically hosting for a simple website to showcase your photos.
I never had any of the Adobe software till the brought in the Photography plan, as the up-front price was too steep, whereas now probably 3 years of subscription is about what it used to cost just for the upgrade price of Photoshop.
I mostly use Lightroom Classic (which I'll refer to as Lightroom from now on), and occasionally Photoshop. The raw processing in both is built on Adobe Camera Raw, but if you mostly want to just perform edits that can be accomplished by raw adjustments, Lightroom Classic is faster and easier particularly for batch processing. Photoshop is better if you need advanced editing or want to use various plugins for additional editing effects, but you will end up with huge files as a result, whereas Lightroom only saves a record of adjustments to a raw file but doesn't actually create new files until you export. Lightroom is also great for adding metadata light keywords or geotagging images.
I'd say more than 90% of the time, Lightroom can do all I need, but it's handy to have Photoshop available for the few times I do need heavy duty editing.
More recently, I purchased DxO Photolab as a supplement to Lightroom for raw processing, as it does some things like noise reduction and selective lighting adjustment a lot better than Lightroom, and it comes with a one off (though reasonably substantial) up front fee. It doesn't handle metadata well though, so I've kept my Adobe Subscription because of that, and it's possible to get Lightroom to embed keywords and other metadata in the DNG files and then do the actual raw adjustments in PhotoLab so that I can get the best of both worlds in terms of efficient meta data management and powerful raw editing for images with difficult lighting or noise, although mostly Lightroom is still my first choice.
If I do need to open an image in Photoshop, I'll generally do whatever raw adjustments I want in Lightroom first, then choose the option in Lightroom 'open in Photoshop' to send the adjusted image to Photoshop for further processing.
With regard to Pentax, the great thing is that Pentax can use DNG as its raw format so that it's possible for Adobe and other software to store metadata in the DNG files without altering the actual raw image data or having to create a separate sidecar file to store the metadata.
This also enables the scenario I've described where I can add metadata with Lightroom and then do raw editing in PhotoLab, and the metadata is recognised even though PhotoLab and Lightroom are made by different companies and have incompatible raw processing algorithms, the actual image metadata can be read by either.
I think Pentax choosing to use DNG as a raw format was a smart move as with most other raw file formats from other camera makes, the actual image data and metadata have to be kept in separate files, or there is an extra step converting raw files to DNG files which are often a lot larger than the original raw files.

05-09-2021, 12:19 AM   #20
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
QuoteOriginally posted by microlight Quote
With you there BarryE. I have the Lr/PS subscription and use the same workflow as you. I also don’t use Lr and manage my own images! Must be a Hampshire thing.
You're probably right there Martyn, it is likely a Hampshire thing. Smart people around here


Also, I mentioned Smart Objects in my initial response in this ACR/PS workflow. The ability to process in ACR, open and in PS as a Smart Object, then pop back to ACR to make a few more tweaks, before returning to PS is very helpful. It means you don't have to complete the ACR processing and can use it concurrent with PS processing. I'm not sure whether you can do this with LR ...

Last edited by BarryE; 05-09-2021 at 12:25 AM.
05-09-2021, 01:25 AM   #21
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
pschlute's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,113
QuoteOriginally posted by tokyoscape Quote
LightRoom doesn't do image editing. When we want to process an image file, LightRoom will call up Cameraraw so we can edit/process things in Cameraraw
Which version of LR are you using ?

To edit an image in the latest LR you select the Develop module. A large range of editing tools are available. If it is a raw file you are editing, the Develop module is pretty much the same but with more options. LR does not use the Camera Raw interface, although it does use the engine.
05-09-2021, 02:20 AM   #22
Closed Account




Join Date: Feb 2019
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 819
I use Lightroom almost exclusively for editing. Photoshop gets used if I need to use layers, sometimes I'll use the noise reduction in Photoshop because you can do it by channel, even then I'll normally start and finish my workflow in Lightroom. If you're doing a lot of composite blending and layer work, Photoshop makes more sense but even then catalog managment, categories, side by side comparisons and some editing (not cloning work on things like dusty slides) is better done in Lightroom.

05-09-2021, 05:53 AM   #23
Pentaxian
MikeMcE's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2020
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,093
If you make your lively hood shooting. Invest in Adobe.
If you aren’t Affinity is a great program.
I use Adobe bridge ( still free- even cloud version) then raw images are pp in affinity photo.


Hang up and DRIVE!
05-09-2021, 09:44 AM - 1 Like   #24
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
QuoteOriginally posted by MikeMcE Quote
If you make your lively hood shooting. Invest in Adobe.
If you aren’t Affinity is a great program.
I use Adobe bridge ( still free- even cloud version) then raw images are pp in affinity photo.


Hang up and DRIVE!
Maybe there's something in between? Maybe some folk actually like using LR & PS? Maybe they like, for less than a bought coffee a week, the chance to use the market leading product to develop their photos? I do. How long does the enjoyment of a Starbucks last?
05-09-2021, 11:32 AM   #25
5ks
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Finland
Posts: 681
I prefer avoiding the subscription of Creative Cloud for as long as possible. I have the stand-alone version 6 of Lightroom ("classic") and it gives me 95 % of what I need in post processing images so far. Some say using Lightroom is not for 'editing' - I'd say why not, but it may not be enough for manipulating.

Instead of Photoshop (which I don't use), there's also a cheaper alternative in Corel Paint Shop Pro. It sure is not as good and sophisticated as Photoshop, but yet it adds some useful features that are not available in Lightroom, eg. layers and a large variety of retouching tools and effects.
05-09-2021, 12:00 PM   #26
Pentaxian
MikeMcE's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2020
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,093
QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Maybe there's something in between? Maybe some folk actually like using LR & PS? Maybe they like, for less than a bought coffee a week, the chance to use the market leading product to develop their photos? I do. How long does the enjoyment of a Starbucks last?

I don’t know, do you? Affinity works for those of us not bent over the Adobe tunnel. I’ve bought and used 3 versions of Photoshop, and I don’t like Starbucks.
So Affinity Photo works great.


Hang up and DRIVE!
05-09-2021, 12:22 PM - 1 Like   #27
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
pschlute's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,113
We seem to have got off the OP's original question and onto a Pro/anti Adobe thread.

There is no need. Some like the Photography plan and some don't but we all have a choice. Exercise it
05-09-2021, 01:13 PM   #28
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Sioux City, IA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 938
You hear of very few people who do the Bridge>Camera Raw>PS workflow who weren’t already heavy PS users before Lightroom (now Lightroom Classic, LrC) entered the Adobe ecosystem. Maybe some professional retouchers who know they are going to have to take every image into PS anyway use that workflow, but for me, 90–95% of my photos are fine just being worked on in LrC.

The collections system that LrC provides is really essential for me. I don’t want to have eight copies of a photo lying around, but I do want to have pointers to that image in a lot of places. Collections allow me to do this. (For instance, the first collection any photo goes into is one called “Full shoot” that’s inside a collection set titled for whatever I was shooting that day. Taking advice from Scott Kelby, the ones that pass my first cull will be added to another collection called “Picks” in that same collection set. Finally, I will go through my picks and winnow that down, perhaps trying some quick adjustments. Those get put into a “Selects” collection in the same collection set. I could do all that with flags and stars and filters, but it’s nice to be able to just jump to “Selects” when I’m looking to edit or find an edited image and not have to remember to turn on filters. But where collections really come in handy after that is that if I enter an image into a competition, I will add it to a collection for the competition. When I’m making a photo book, I assemble images into a collection for the photo book and then export. When I”m making a calendar, I do the same thing. My best images probably live in eight or 10 collections, but there is still only one actual copy of the image file on my drive, so I can notice a dust spot, clean it up, and then no matter what collection I find the image in later on, it will be the updated copy.)

I use Photoshop mainly for removing distractions. The spot removal tool in LrC is tolerable for removing sensor dust from skies. It’s generally not good for removing distracting elements from images. That’s most of what takes me into Photoshop. Other things would be selective adjustments where I really want better masking tools than what LrC provides, and Adobe’s AI-powered subject and sky selection technologies have really gotten impressive.
05-09-2021, 01:56 PM - 1 Like   #29
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,286
QuoteOriginally posted by 5ks Quote
I prefer avoiding the subscription of Creative Cloud for as long as possible. I have the stand-alone version 6 of Lightroom ("classic") and it gives me 95 % of what I need in post processing images so far. Some say using Lightroom is not for 'editing' - I'd say why not, but it may not be enough for manipulating.

Instead of Photoshop (which I don't use), there's also a cheaper alternative in Corel Paint Shop Pro. It sure is not as good and sophisticated as Photoshop, but yet it adds some useful features that are not available in Lightroom, eg. layers and a large variety of retouching tools and effects.
Paintshop Pro is actually pretty good, and considerably better than Photoshop Elements. Photoshop Elements only supports 8 bits per colour channel which can result in nasty banding with some editing. Paintshop Pro, like Photoshop, supports 16 bits per channel. It also supports Photoshop plugins, and for anyone who's a bit of a geek, scripting, so you can create automation. Image cataloguing isn't too bad either.
Its one major weak point is very poor raw processing capabilities, but if you've another raw processor, free or paid like RawTherapee or DxO Photolab, then Paintshop Pro could be very much a substitute for Photoshop.

I used Paintshop Pro a lot until Adobe introduced their Photography plan. I still use it occasionally, as it comes with both 32 and 64 bit versions together, and the 32 bit version works with my older scanner software for scanning slides and negatives, but Photoshop doesn't.
05-09-2021, 09:37 PM - 1 Like   #30
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,256
QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Which version of LR are you using ?

To edit an image in the latest LR you select the Develop module. A large range of editing tools are available. If it is a raw file you are editing, the Develop module is pretty much the same but with more options. LR does not use the Camera Raw interface, although it does use the engine.

I don't remember the version I used to use because I uninstall it almost a year ago.
Wasn't the “Develop” module in the classic is in fact "CameraRaw"? (The Lightroom mobile might be the only version that have nothing to do with cameraraw.)
Well, I actuary not really sure if I am 100% right, but saying it out of my direct experience using it years ago. Adobe make it looks like people can edit image in Lightroom which...well, if it is truth, then Bridge is an image editing software too? people would argue Bridge is not an image editing software but what it does when edit raw image is fundamentally the same as LightRoom. it call CameraRaw up and let us edit image in CameraRaw. UI might looks a bit difference but it cameraraw the same.

Anyway, I am getting confuse now, sooo a few search on internet and I found this article
So, Should I Be Using Lightroom or Camera Raw? - Lightroom Killer Tips

Looking for the sentence below:
" However, they decided that instead of calling it Camera Raw, they would change the name (and only the name) to “Develop.” So, the Develop Module we know and love in Lightroom Classic (and the Edit section of Lightroom “the cloud version”) are both Camera Raw. "

I think the author could explain it a lot better than me.

So anyone want to use Adobe's software to "Edit" a raw file, it doesn't matter. Lightroom, Photoshop, Bridge. They are all using CameraRaw engine. It is more of what each individual wanted when it come to "organizing the files and workflow".

Last edited by tokyoscape; 05-09-2021 at 09:46 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
affinity, alternative, bit, bought, channel, coffee, lightroom, lot, paintshop, photo, photography, photoshop, shot, starbucks, version
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 & K-5 II 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4 Software vs. Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5 Software Update ASheffield Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 05-08-2014 05:52 AM
Enthusiast vs Prosumer vs Semi Pro vs Pro vs APSC vs Full Frame mickyd Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 11-12-2013 07:14 PM
Lightroom vs. Photoshop ChooseAName Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 14 09-25-2009 10:42 AM
photoshop vs lightroom? madisonphotogrl Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 31 03-05-2009 02:48 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:02 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top