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07-16-2021, 11:56 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
+100. I use Lightroom for nearly everything but for that final 2% of images that are worth (and can benefit from) the extra features of Photoshop it is really nice to have that available. However, I use PS so infrequently that I seem to have to relearn things every time I use it.
I know what you mean, I knew PS really well back 15-20 years ago, when I was doing a lot in f graphics and media work in my job, even then I just touched basics in reality, but it has changed a lot.

07-16-2021, 12:38 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Is there anything about the RAW processor in Affinity that you don't like?
I've only recently started using it - so far so good. But at the moment my position on the learning cycle is "not knowing what you don't know " (aka "unconscious incompetence" and I'm trying to climb several learning curves at moment). As I don't use the Adobe suite I don't have access to Lr, etc. So wondering if, at some point, I might want to consider another RAW processor ....

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
FWIW...all of those tools are technically 3rd-party. The Pentax DCU would be the 1st-party processor for your camera.

A few points:[LIST][*]I am an Infinity Photo user, but don't use its RAW processor. I love its raster editor, but I have found the Develop Persona to be one of the less capable parts of that product.
[*]Open Source RAW processors such a RawTherapee offer amazing scope and depth and are worth exploring. If you like one, become a guru and a fan and feed the community.


Sorry to be Doctor Gloom, but it is important to know, going in, how well your chosen solutions play with others and what your exit strategy might be should such be needed.


Steve
... very good points there (just quoted a few), Steve ...

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
In my basement workshop, I have a variety of tools. For many of my projects, multiple tools are needed; one tool doesn't do everything.

Likewise, in my image post-processing workflow, I use several tools: Faststone Image Viewer for initial quick review and culling; RawTherapee for RAW development; and Affinity Photo for further adjustments. For certain specific tasks, I might use another program; for example, PaintShop Pro has a very easy border tool.

Regarding Affinity Photo's Develop Persona, I recently undertook a detailed comparison with RawTherapee, with the intention of simplifying my workflow. I hoped that I could use Affinity for all my RAW development. Although I found it did a reasonable job on many types of images, I could get a superior result from RawTherapee in almost all cases. I also find that Affinity lacks some basic features, such as saving global processing/adjustment settings. The shadow/highlight tools in Photo Persona are rather crude and inferior to the excellent control I get in RawTherapee. Otherwise, it's very good for pixel-level work.

I don't find it too awkward to move between tools, and I've become adept at RawTherapee, so it's no longer a complex beast to me.


- Craig
.... and Craig.

So when my position on the learning cycle improves I'll probably have a look at RawTherapee

Thanks for all the responses
08-25-2021, 03:45 AM   #33
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raw processing with On1 vs. Digital Camera Utility

Today I've seen, that there is a difference in detail resolution/definition between processing a DNG file to jpg with On1 and Digital Camera Utility 5.

Would this really be an advantage to open all DNG in Digital Camera Utility 5 instead of opening in On1?

Does anybody made a similar experience and could give an advice for optimal processing DNG-files?

Cheers

Eric
08-25-2021, 05:26 AM   #34
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[IMG]IMGP1765_crop by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/147484618@N03/]
raw converted using Digital Camera Utility

IMGP1765_crop-we by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/147484618@N03/]
raw converted using On1

08-25-2021, 04:36 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by exposeric Quote
Today I've seen, that there is a difference in detail resolution/definition between processing a DNG file to jpg with On1 and Digital Camera Utility 5.Would this really be an advantage to open all DNG in Digital Camera Utility 5 instead of opening in On1?
In the example you have given, I think ON1 has produced better noise reduction (and the exposure adjustment is better), but perhaps at the cost of some detail. I don't think either is particularly good. Topaz or DxO PL (and no doubt people will nominate others) would give better results with their AI processing.

Here's a comparison example of an image taken in very poor light with the K-3 + FA*300mm f4.5 at f5, 1/50th, 6400 ISO (where the K-3 is pretty ordinary). I shot RAW + jpg. Here is the OOC jpg


After processing the RAW file with DxO PL and DeepPrime.




You can't expect miracles with an image like this (the slow shutter speed is the limitation here) but the better software can get the best out of them.

Last edited by Des; 03-18-2022 at 03:26 PM.
08-26-2021, 12:36 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
In the example you have given, I think ON1 has produced better noise reduction (and the exposure adjustment is better), but perhaps at the cost of some detail. I don't think either is particularly good. Topaz or DxO PL (and no doubt people will nominate others) would give better results with their AI processing.

Here's a comparison example of an image taken in poor light with the K-3 + FA*300mm f4.5 at f5, 1/50th, 6400 ISO (where the K-3 is pretty ordinary). I shot RAW + jpg. Here is the OOC jpg


After processing the RAW file with DxO PL and DeepPrime.


You can't expect miracles with an image like this but the better software can get the best out of them.
Des
thank you very much for your reply and judging my issue. Your example is very impressive and informative. I will probably check out different tools too beside LR and ON1, when required. The swallow in my example is my first attempt to catch these birds with the camera and is just a test for me.
Eric
08-26-2021, 10:26 AM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by exposeric Quote
Today I've seen, that there is a difference in detail resolution/definition between processing a DNG file to jpg with On1 and Digital Camera Utility 5.

Would this really be an advantage to open all DNG in Digital Camera Utility 5 instead of opening in On1?

Does anybody made a similar experience and could give an advice for optimal processing DNG-files?

Cheers

Eric
I find it varies a lot with what demosaic'ing engine you are running. Some softwares give you more than one option and I personally like AMaZE.

I know I get a little bit more detail out of RawTherapee with my K-3 than I get from DarkTable 3.4 (using AMaZE on both). That was only pixel peeping. I now have DarkTable 3.6 and processed only a few K200D files with it so far - but their handling of AMaZE did not change so I don't think I'd get any extra detail from it.

My results from Corel Aftershot 3 are horrid, I don't use this anymore except for the Perfectly Clear algorithms ("clearing" and denoising) on JPEGs.

And to think that back when I used the first version of Corel Aftershot Pro, the colors I used to get were better and more accurate than RawTherapee and DCU 5. Rawtherapee has come a long way since, and I no longer have the original Corel Aftershot Pro to install - if I did I could at least still use it with my K10D and K200D. I don't think it could handle anything larger than 16MP files with its old 32-bit monoprocessor engine.

Either way, I'm pretty happy with RawTherapee at the moment, and on the few files I need to clean up dust and do retouches that RawTherapee can't do, I happily use DarkTable, as the difference between these two isn't all that huge.

08-26-2021, 03:33 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by exposeric Quote
The swallow in my example is my first attempt to catch these birds with the camera and is just a test for me.
I should have added that you have set yourself a really hard task Eric! Swallows are very difficult to capture, even in ideal conditions - and I suspect that the light you were dealing with wasn't great? The better the light, the better the image will clean up. At 1600 ISO with the K-1 in reasonable light, I think any noise should clean up very well.

NR software has improved markedly in recent years. I've been using DxO products for about 7 years now and while they have been at the front of the pack for NR for most of that time, their most recent iteration (with what they call DeepPrime NR, which uses AI) is still a big improvement (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/12-post-your-photos/415033-night-compari...echnology.html). The thing to look for is noise reduction that still preserves detail. This is where I think Topaz and DxO's DeepPrime are particularly good. To my eyes, ON1's standalone AI-based program (ON1 NoNoise AI 2021 – ON1) to me seems to have very effective NR but loses too much detail in the process (others have a similar view: New ON1 NoNoise - PentaxForums.com). But the software is developing so quickly there could be a new market leader at any time, so keep an eye out.

Last edited by Des; 08-26-2021 at 03:59 PM.
08-30-2021, 01:16 AM   #39
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Thank you Des and ChristianRock
Your Information is very helpful and I think to try first processing without any noise reduction using DCU. I remember the time when I developped the b&w films in Diafine and often the Tri-X exposed with 800/1600 ASA looked better than the Pan-X negatives because of the film grain, enlarged till 8x10'. Higher enlargements naturally came better with fine resolving films and smaller film grain. So, I'm probably looking for a way to emulate film grain for some digital negatives instead of noise cancelling methods.
Eric
09-01-2021, 06:15 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by exposeric Quote
Thank you Des and ChristianRock
Your Information is very helpful and I think to try first processing without any noise reduction using DCU. I remember the time when I developped the b&w films in Diafine and often the Tri-X exposed with 800/1600 ASA looked better than the Pan-X negatives because of the film grain, enlarged till 8x10'. Higher enlargements naturally came better with fine resolving films and smaller film grain. So, I'm probably looking for a way to emulate film grain for some digital negatives instead of noise cancelling methods.
Eric
on my flickr-album 'processing' have added two examples using DCU without any noise reduction and a transformation using ON1-preset 'toned BW5' (cannot link to pictures ore the album, because of web-page error message).
09-01-2021, 03:40 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by exposeric Quote
on my flickr-album 'processing' have added two examples using DCU without any noise reduction and a transformation using ON1-preset 'toned BW5' (cannot link to pictures ore the album, because of web-page error message).
I think we are getting to the point of hijacking this thread. I'd suggest posting your question in a new thread, Eric.
09-03-2021, 01:55 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
I think we are getting to the point of hijacking this thread. I'd suggest posting your question in a new thread, Eric.
Des
Thank you, that's fine, without thread hijacking
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