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07-22-2021, 09:47 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Capture One Pro 21 Update is Great and Frustrating at the Same Time

The latest C1 update finally delivers on a number of long-awaited requests:
  • overwriting existing output files.
  • synchronising new subfolders.
  • showing images in subfolders.
There is a new "magic brush" as well, which I don't care about much (yet). Subject selection has not been a problem for me and tolerance-based selection tools don't always work that well. I'll have to see about this one.

However, in a number of areas, steps backwards have been made:
  • exporting is now possible via a modal dialogue only. An export preview is nice, but a way to use the exporting tools via a tool tab should have been retained.
  • the "Sub Name" field and token for exporting have been removed and no equivalent way of manually specifying part of an output location has been provided instead.
    EDIT: After a lot of user protest, both these bullet points will be addressed in a future release of C1!
  • a new placement of the "+"/"-" ("add layer" / "delete layer") buttons in the "Layers" tool wastes valuable vertical space, creating dead space in the UI and resulting in fewer layers to be viewable/selectable. I never use these buttons but now (unlike before) they partially obstruct the access to the layers list.
  • the layer-related "Mask Settings" have been relocated from the "Layers" tool to the Viewer toolbar. This makes no sense from a UI perspective; one should not be forced to show (unhide) the Viewer toolbar when working with layers. The Viewer toolbar could be hidden with no loss of important functionality before, but now one needs to either permanently waste vertical space and add visual clutter or keep showing / hiding it.
It is a pity that the UI designers often seriously do not know what they are doing. Some of these changes are objectively bad and should never have been implemented.


Last edited by Class A; 08-12-2021 at 10:02 AM.
07-22-2021, 09:49 AM   #2
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Why not send the authors of the program this feedback? Sounds like things they might find valuable.
07-22-2021, 01:52 PM   #3
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Very frustrating update indeed. Still no support for K-3 III.
07-22-2021, 02:26 PM - 1 Like   #4
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CaptureOne gets better all the time. Never looked back to Lightroom.

07-23-2021, 03:24 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by pid Quote
CaptureOne gets better all the time.
It objectively does not get better all the time, but you are welcome to your opinion.
07-23-2021, 03:30 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ProfessorBuzz Quote
Why not send the authors of the program this feedback? Sounds like things they might find valuable.
I did during beta testing.

Sadly, they seem to have some "focus group" they heavily rely on and appear to prioritise what they get from it over user input.

I'll try repeating my feedback and, who knows, perhaps I'll be able to have some impact after all.

The three positive aspects I mention in the original post were all proposed by me at some time (not only by me) and they did take a lot of other suggestions I made on board. So it's not like they don't listen but regarding some UI decisions, criticism has been fallen on deaf ears.

It is unfortunate that they appear to be fishing for Lightroom / casual users who prefer simplified tools and a shallower learning curve. This is not bad in itself, but it leads to a worse experience for expert users when the expert functionality is replaced with more beginner friendly approaches.
07-23-2021, 05:03 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It objectively does not get better all the time, but you are welcome to your opinion.
if you at least look at the the last 3 big Updates (not the free small Updates) Capture One got better every time.

07-23-2021, 06:46 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by pid Quote
if you at least look at the the last 3 big Updates (not the free small Updates) Capture One got better every time.
I'm not saying it does not get better at all.

For sure, there have been improvements.

My problem is that it does not get monotonically better. In other words, some changes just make it worse in some aspects.

The brush selection was better in the past (only requiring two keyboard shortcuts as opposed to four, with special requirements as to what ordering one uses to select a brush and a layer to not get an unwanted result), being able to add layers to an image by copy/paste is great but the ability to override layers should not have been removed, exporting was more powerful and better integrated in the past, increasing the UI font size worked for 4K display users but not for Full HD display users, etc.

Some people are not affected by the respective downgrades, but some are in a completely unnecessary way as in each case it would have been possible to retain the existing, more powerful or efficiently usable functionality.
07-23-2021, 06:52 AM   #9
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Well I am OK with Cap1 for now... still miss some things from LR - like the glorious History of edits that you can bounce back and forwards - that was awesome!!

ALso - throw in an image stitcher - so annoying to not be able to stitch to make a pano...
07-24-2021, 08:39 PM - 1 Like   #10
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I too am ok with C1, this update really didn't do anything for me and I don't like the fact they moved the add/delete layer buttons to the row above the brushes. Also the arrows to show the brush settings seems redundant when a right click on the image does the same thing with less fiddling. I need to use the new export tool more to see if it's helpful, so fae it's meh. The "magic brush" while it works isn't as easy to get results as the demos would lead you to believe. Just my opinions ymmv.


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07-24-2021, 11:35 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuzzyphotos Quote
... I don't like the fact they moved the add/delete layer buttons to the row above the brushes.
You can add a vote to my respective feature request, if you like.

QuoteOriginally posted by fuzzyphotos Quote
Also the arrows to show the brush settings seems redundant when a right click on the image does the same thing with less fiddling.
I agree. Buttons like this one and all the fancy tool tips with images (that are luckily optional), create the impression they are fishing in beginner/casual user territory to increase their user base.

I don't see how anyone but a complete noob would use that button and given the myriad of (sadly rather repetitive) tutorials on YouTube by Capture One, it is not clear why one would assume someone who knows absolutely nothing about the software.

QuoteOriginally posted by fuzzyphotos Quote
I need to use the new export tool more to see if it's helpful, so far it's meh.
Sadly, it is not quite as powerful as it was. I find it annoying when Capture One and their ambassadors repeatedly say that all the functionality is still there but "in one place".
First, functionality has been lost and second how did a "Process" tool tab not constitute "one place" before?

The modal nature of the new approach is definitely a step backwards.

QuoteOriginally posted by fuzzyphotos Quote
The "magic brush" while it works isn't as easy to get results as the demos would lead you to believe.
I don't expect it to be of much practical value either.

It is, in my experience, a rare case when actual images match the demo images in such a manner that the tool works as well as in the demos. Now and then it could help but then it does not really appear to add anything over a luma range selection and/or a colour editor selection.
08-09-2021, 12:11 AM   #12
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I'm still fairly new to C1 and although I watched some tutorial videos I have not been a very structured learner, and I still stumble on things by accident. I bought C1 20 just before the update, and didn't upgrade to 21 yet, since the reviews in here were lukewarm, and I thought my time might be better spent getting to know the program in the first place.

Maybe I will just skip an update, I don't know.

It would be really great if they implemented support for Pentax cameras. I have not tried using the program with a supported camera, so I guess it is hard to know what I am missing, but I noticed one thing the other day: I had been wondering why all my high iso photos from my K1ii and K3iii were very soft in C1 - and now I noticed that there is an auto-setting for noise removal that activates at iso 3200 and above, very much above what those two cameras require. I guess a profile for those specific cameras would include more appropriate settings for high iso levels... and other things.

Overall, I find my own level of creative control much higher than in my old LR. Apart from the fact that I had to change, since LR went cloud-subscription-mode-only, and that is not for me.
08-09-2021, 12:17 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
It would be really great if they implemented support for Pentax cameras.
Many Pentax cameras are supported by C1. Not only can you use the DNG format regardless but PEF is also supported for many Pentax cameras.

The camera profiles are nothing to write home about, though, AFAIC.
I don't believe they received much work, contrary to the marketing claim that each camera profile is hand-tweaked in a laborious process.
There have been too many accidents with botched Pentax profiles (old versions crudely tweaked to "fit" a new model) for that to be true and while the later profiles were not botched anymore, they don't give you anything special/valuable at all, in my view.

Another problem is that the lens name for Pentax lenses is not shown within C1 because Pentax uses a non-standard location and C1 (unlike Lightroom) does not make an effort to get it from the respective location.

Don't expect tethering support for Pentax cameras or support for PixelShift either.

QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
I guess a profile for those specific cameras would include more appropriate settings for high iso levels... and other things.
You can set any noise (and other settings) as new default values, depending on the ISO setting.
So there is no real limitation here.

QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
Overall, I find my own level of creative control much higher than in my old LR.
I also much prefer C1 for editing but sometimes get despondent over their "improvements" because in many cases they are just steps backwards.

The latest "improvement" to the exporting process kicked up such a storm of protests, though, that they have announced a remedy. I hope it won't be just a cosmetic "fix" that allows a non-modal operation again. I hope they'll bring back the old expressiveness that allowed one to easily affect output locations across multiple profiles.

It's been an up and down of good additions vs objectively worse "improvement attempts" recently, which is a shame because until a few years ago, it was all uphill only and none of the bad decision making happened.

What aggravates me is that the downsides that have been introduced were all so avoidable. Adding an alternative style of interaction should not come at the cost of causing issues for those who were precisely enjoying what suddenly is no longer available.
08-12-2021, 10:00 AM   #14
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Capture One listened!

They are going to bring back the original way of exporting, including all functionality that was lost!

I'm super happy with this and it gives me hope for C1's future.
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