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02-08-2022, 06:25 PM   #16
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in post 49 of this thread I walk through exactly why I did. Suitable saturation for competition entries? - Page 4 - PentaxForums.com

02-08-2022, 07:40 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Are you suggesting that spending several hours in a dedicated/confined space that's light compromised, dealing with and breathing potentially poisonous chemical vapors, makes sense? Good luck with that…

Sorry, that's NOT for me.

I'd rather spend five minutes with Lightroom+etc. quickly fine-tuning an image that can immediately enjoyed by millions of others.

It's easy to become a world-class post processor. I bet if you put your mind to it, now, you could get there before spring ends.

Just sayin'… M

I'm still laughing, thank you for that
02-08-2022, 08:22 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Are you suggesting that spending several hours in a dedicated/confined space that's light compromised, dealing with and breathing potentially poisonous chemical vapors, makes sense? Good luck with that…

Sorry, that's NOT for me.

Just sayin'… M
I spent a lot of time in a dark room developing film when I was a teenager. The chemical smell, and red light, help set the mood lol. I wouldn't recommend hovering over a tray breathing like Darth Vader. That did seem to burn the nose hairs and eyes a little, but it didn't bother me otherwise.
02-08-2022, 08:44 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by rpjallan Quote
Well that’s not quite true, is it? What about shooting with slide film?
Which slide film? While more limited now there used to be a fair choice of different films to choose from that offered different 'interpretations' of a scene, but having a slide isn't the end since it needs to be viewed/presented somehow and those somehows are, in a since, a form of post processing, and printing directly from them was a real joy once you figured out contrast masking. It boils down to making or taking a photo. If you're making, then everything past the conceptualization is post processing.

02-08-2022, 10:42 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteQuote:
Why alter images after they're taken rather than composing the scene to get the shot you want? [ ] What about shooting with slide film?
Every image begins with PRE-processing; a choice of camera type and format, type sensor, lens FL, light conditions, exposure and filter choices, topic, etc. and doesn't end until all the POST-processing choices of all types are complete and the final result has proven satisfactory.

Anything else is simply accepting self-imposed restrictions as a personal challenge.

Ever COPY or print from a slide, with color correction to get it 'right'?

Ever shoot film or slides anticipating using a specific choice of wet processing to achieve a planned result. Much easier with digital tools. And not smelly!

Oh, and I refuse to abide by the 'rule' that one must only compose in the VF and therefore only shoot things that look great in print with a 1:1, 2:3, 24:36mm, 4"x5", etc format.
02-08-2022, 10:47 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by 740K70 Quote
I spent a lot of time in a dark room developing film when I was a teenager. The chemical smell, and red light, help set the mood lol.
You have brought back memories for me ! i did the same as a teenager in my parents kitchen with blankets at the windows and my mother often opening the door to make herself a cup of tea without knocking ....." Oh mum !"

Back to your original question. Every image from a digital camera has undergone PP. Even if you set the jpeg output to "Natural", the colours/brightness/contrast will be determined by the programmer from when the camera was first released. No two camera models are identical, just as different brands will produce subtle differences too. There is no "true" image which a few folk think should be the goal of photography.

The digital darkroom is a very powerful tool, especially if one shoots raw capture. Getting a well exposed image or images (if merging more than one exposure) in the first place (no blown highlights or crushed blacks) is the best starting point for processing your "digital negative", so PP in no way removes the need for photographic skills in the first place.
02-08-2022, 10:50 PM - 3 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
There is this mistaken belief that post processing is cheating or wrong and the image that is straight out of camera is the 'true' image.

The supposed 'true' image is actually just ones and zeros picked up by a sensor and then reinterpreted after characterization via a processor into an image.


Post processing has many approaches/purposes. Some being :
1. To draw or re-interpret out more information that was captured by the camera when it took the photo (ie. shadows/highlights/color/sharpness)
2. To get to nearer what the photographer saw (eg. shadows/highlights )
3. To get over the limits of a single shot (eg. astro, depth of field, angle of view, etc )
The second purpose is what makes me want to post process. Though I see lots of examples from 'famous' landscape photographers (you tubers) who, in my opinion, exaggerate the final image. Most of the time the end result is not even close to the real time image. That is what I consider cheating. The difference is I don't have to make money out of an image. I only have to experience happiness and satisfaction. It is only myself that has to like the image. It is a bonus if somebody else experiences the same.

02-09-2022, 12:05 AM - 4 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Haenzel Quote
… I see lots of examples from 'famous' landscape photographers (you tubers) who, in my opinion, exaggerate the final image. Most of the time the end result is not even close to the real time image. That is what I consider cheating….
You may be horrified to learn there were many of the old-time so-called “greats” who turned whatever they photographed into black, white and shades of grey. Completely unrealistic, apart from the few people who are truly colourblind!


On a less ridiculous note, you can always ignore those whose “cheating” turns your stomach. There’s always flickr and Insta…
02-09-2022, 12:53 AM   #24
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What software options are the easiest to learn for PP?
02-09-2022, 02:00 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by 740K70 Quote
What software options are the easiest to learn for PP?
Faststone Image Viewer is what I started with and still use.
It's free to download and use. Don't be afraid to experiment.



FastStone Image Viewer, Screen Capture, Photo Resizer ...
02-09-2022, 02:10 AM - 1 Like   #26
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In terms of available tutorials, general understanding across the community, amount of online FAQs etc it’s probably Lightroom. However you use it, it can be as simple and straightforward as you want to make it. Or as complex.
02-09-2022, 02:15 AM - 4 Likes   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Haenzel Quote
Most of the time the end result is not even close to the real time image
This is an interesting point. It is worth remembering that what we see with our eyes and is interpreted by our brain, is very different from what a camera sensor can capture in a single shot.

We don't look at a high contrast scene and see blown highlights or crushed blacks, because our eyes are constantly "stopping down" for bright scenes* and our brains instantly relay a normal scene to us. The camera sensor however has none of this ability. It is restricted to a limited dynamic range. There is a very strong argument for saying that in order to render a digital image that is as close to what we actually saw, we should always be using multiple exposures and combining them in a HDR merge either in camera or in computer software. I do this most of the time now when capturing static objects.

* As a side note, I had to visit the optician yesterday and was given eye drops to dilate my pupils. It took a number of hours to wear off. Walking home it was like I was constantly stuck at f1.2 A very unpleasant experience.
02-09-2022, 02:33 AM - 2 Likes   #28
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To all those stating slide film had a post processing.This is outright twisting the truth to get your own point proved.

The normal workflow for processing a slide film was to give it to a lab where it was processed and then returned to you. It worked this way for 95% of the professionals and hobbists. And the presentation was via projection or on a light table. No one tweaked a slide film after taking a picture. If you wanted to take influence on color saturation etc. you used filters or you used color negative film outright. If you wanted prints you used negative film as well.

No photographer using slide film ever thought of something like post processing. Your aim was to get the picture right out of camera.
If you were a professional, you might also have in mind the printing prepress and tryed not to get to dense slides.

That was one of the advantages of taking color slides. You had a standard process E6 or Kodachrome and if you gave your film to a reliable lab, you would get a standardized result back. When I (hobbist) took a picture on my Ekta- or Kodachrome I could dead right predict how the colors of the slide would look.

There was no post processing like it is today where every picture of a situation with meh lighting and contrast could be turned into brilliant colors and saturation. When using slide film you either waited for better lighting conditions or you tried to make a picture that looked good despite of meh lighting and contrast.
02-09-2022, 02:49 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Papa_Joe Quote
No photographer using slide film ever thought of something like post processing. Your aim was to get the picture right out of camera.
If you were a professional, you might also have in mind the printing process.
Your second paragraph just contradicted the first.
Many enthusiastic amateurs (even teenagers like me at the time) played around with Cibachrome prints from their favourite slides. That was most certainly post-processing.
The old mantra of over-exposing negative film, and under-exposing transparencies, was specifically concerned with the possibility of future printing.
02-09-2022, 04:03 AM - 4 Likes   #30
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Every image is "processed." Ansel Adams made it clear that when he took an image, he also took copious notes on how he planned to develop the negative in order to maximize its impact. You have only to read his books (The Camera/The Negative/The Print) to understand that capturing an image was only the beginning of the work he put into it.

The whole point is beginning with a vision for what an image should be. In the digital sphere, you have two options. You can cede control of the development to the camera (note: this is still post processing, it is just mostly out of your control) by choosing a jpeg setting like Bright, Natural, etc, or you can shoot a RAW image and use a RAW developer like Lightroom or Raw Therapee to develop it. Neither option is right or wrong. If you can achieve 100 percent of your vision with out of camera jpeg settings then you have saved some time, but otherwise, there is no special badge given to jpeg shooters.

On the other hand, if you find that you are able to get better results through working with the RAW image in post, as many of us do, then you eventually gravitate away from jpeg shooting. For me, when I am shooting snapshots, it doesn't really matter what I shoot, they are fine either way, but images like landscapes at sunrise/sunset the dynamic range is too high for the camera jpeg engine to handle gracefully and I find a little work helps the final image.
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