[JohnMc]

And that's all fine and dandy... for you and your way of working, there is no right or wrong. If you go in to town and work at the office for 12 hrs a day do you only rent a place for 6 months a year? Framing is not germane here though. I say this having printed retail commercial (my lab and others) and for private clients (my lab and sometimes theirs) for more than a few years; from E-3 to UC-HD12. Yes, digital has changed the game, and as its matured it's become more refined v/v the process of outsourcing services.


But then too, the imagery side of it has undergone the same transformations, and it's quite possible to go online and buy or rent image(s) for less than the COO of the gear one might deem necessary to produce said images as well as the related costs of a studio or travel. Of course your landscapes may consist entirely of the coy/lilly pond in the courtyard or back 40 or wherever. That's okay too, not everyone needs to go Giverny or the Grand Canyon. )

[BigMackCam]

In digital, there is usually no big surprise between what we see on display and how the prints come out, at least once we have some experience, so I don't expect that printing with a digital inkjet printer make a creative difference on the prints. And I'm not looking for immediacy with prints, because large prints cost money (outsourced or not, ink typically cost $1/A4 area and paper also cost $1 per A4 area), for A1 that's $16 a print, A0 $32 a print for the basic costs, framing under glass cost even more money $100/unit at least, especially large format framing which require sturdy frames. Instead of printing immediately, I let one or two years pass, and then stand back in order to rank past images in terms of their "print" value, I make a first selection, then I review the selection again because I have a more or less a fixed yearly cost budget allocated to prints, each image compete against other to be elected to become a print. I only print the very best images (in my mind's eye / aesthetically pleasing or concept), and I can't know which image is the best until I have let enough time elapse to stand back and make a selection. Once I have decided on a list of images elected for prints, I start to post-process each file for printing, which includes color or b&w, aspect ratio, global adjustments, local adjustments, cloning out unwanted parts, up-sizing and sharpening, it's several hours of post processing per image elected to print (not immediate), a few days of post processing works before sending a batch of images to a print lab. I do this once per year. If I owned a large format inkjet printer, it would require to print a regular basis to avoid print head clogging and have to replace print heads (very costly), and it wouldn't really fit my process of selection, unless I would select and post-process a batch on images and then print one image every other week to keep the printer running, not a great option.

But, I also thought about photographing only certain times of the year and rent equipment at those times (events and seasons). For events, we know the dates, so it's possible to plan rental equipment. For landscape photography, only a couple months each year yield the best results due to combination of light, colors and weather, so having camera equipment the whole year around is not really necessary.

Biz - I don't mean to sound critical, I'm just genuinely curious... Don't you find that all this analysis, all this order and fine balance, takes some of the fun out of photography... makes it rather more like a job than an enjoyable pursuit? I can appreciate the desire - and need - to save money where possible; and if your interests are purely commercial, I can understand the somewhat clinical cost-benefit analysis... but for a hobby - even one taken quite seriously - it seems like an awfully cold, analysis-based, business-like approach for something that (at its heart) is a creative, artistic endeavour that's meant to bring you enjoyment

Again, I'm not criticisng - I'm just curious. We're all different, of course...

[biz-engineer]

Don't you find that all this analysis, all this order and fine balance, takes some of the fun out of photography... makes it rather more like a job than an enjoyable pursuit?

I enjoy holding the prints in my hands , looking at the prints framed and illuminated. Even after seeing a print many time, I still spend a couple of minutes contemplating it, looking afar and close at some image details. I don't enjoy using a camera and I don't enjoy post-processing at all, those tasks are only means to an end, the photograph. When I read Ricoh marketing and camera users say they have fun using a camera , I don't understand what they are talking about. In 30 years, I never had fun using a camera, either my first Minolta 35mm film , my compact cameras or my DSLRs. But when I looked at my first P K200D pictures, my first reaction was "Wow". About my prints, I have installed timers to switch on the projectors automatically twice at day, the projectors are switched on from 6 am to 8 am, so after I wake up and during breakfast, I walk by my prints and contemplate them shortly. And in the evening the projectors switch on from 7 pm to 9 pm, so I take a look regularly. After a few weeks or months, I put the print back in storage and place new ones in the frames, my frames are made of two frames with a hinge type back locker (not like commercial frames), so that it's easy to replace prints effortlessly and without the frame backs wearing out over time.

---------- Post added 08-05-22 at 19:32 ----------

if your interests are purely commercial, I can understand the somewhat clinical cost-benefit analysis...

My interests aren't commercial, they are more "artistic" if I can say it this way. The cost-benefit was necessary , because at A1 or A0 print sizes, I was on the edge of buying a Canon IPF 4100, which cost approx 5000 Euro for the printer itself, and an set of 12 x 700ml ink cartridges costs approx. 3500 Euros, that would have been 8500 Euros to spend, without the additional cost of 24" x 12 meters or 36" x 12 meters paper rolls, not to mention the weight and size of the printer itself.

[BigMackCam]

I enjoy holding the prints in my hands , looking at the prints framed and illuminated. Even after seeing a print many time, I still spend a couple of minutes contemplating it, looking afar and close at some image details. I don't enjoy using a camera and I don't enjoy post-processing at all, those tasks are only means to an end, the photograph. When I read Ricoh marketing and camera users say they have fun using a camera , I don't understand what they are talking about. In 30 years, I never had fun using a camera, either my first Minolta 35mm film , my compact cameras or my DSLRs. But when I looked at my first P K200D pictures, my first reaction was "Wow". About my prints, I have installed timers to switch on the projectors automatically twice at day, the projectors are switched on from 6 am to 8 am, so after I wake up and during breakfast, I walk by my prints and contemplate them shortly. And in the evening the projectors switch on from 7 pm to 9 pm, so I take a look regularly. After a few weeks or months, I put the print back in storage and place new ones in the frames, my frames are made of two frames with a hinge type back locker (not like commercial frames), so that it's easy to replace prints effortlessly and without the frame backs wearing out over time.

---------- Post added 08-05-22 at 19:32 ----------


My interests aren't commercial, they are more "artistic" if I can say it this way. The cost-benefit was necessary , because at A1 or A0 print sizes, I was on the edge of buying a Canon IPF 4100, which cost approx 5000 Euro for the printer itself, and an set of 12 x 700ml ink cartridges costs approx. 3500 Euros, that would have been 8500 Euros to spend, without the additional cost of 24" x 12 meters or 36" x 12 meters paper rolls, not to mention the weight and size of the printer itself.

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain so fully, biz. It's interesting for me to see things through the eyes of another photographer, because we are all different as I previously noted. With this context, I better understand quite a few of your recent and earlier posts over the years.

Unlike you, I get real enjoyment from using equipment that works and performs in ways I like, and I enjoy the process of taking photos with that equipment as well as the processing / developing aspects - just as much, if not more, than the end results. Of course, I enjoy my completed images, too... but even if I come home from a shoot and haven't taken a single "keeper", I've usually enjoyed the process and I'm not too disappointed. So, we enjoy different aspects of photography in different ways... which explains some of our differing views in discussion threads, especially those relating to equipment.

If I printed enough of my photos, I'm quite sure I'd enjoy home printing too... but I could never justify the cost and commitment of running and maintaining a decent printer for the negligible amount of printing I do.

I really like the idea of your frames! Did you have those made specially, or are they available to buy? Your timed projectors are a great idea too... Again, the fixed timer aspect is quite an orderly approach, but I think that's just the type of guy you are, and you obviously enjoy the scheduled manner of viewing your photos. It's a nice setup you've put together

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-08-2022 at 11:19 AM.

[biz-engineer]

I really like the idea of your frames! Did you have those made specially, or are they available to buy?

I made the frames from frame beams, painted them (that's time consuming), and bought the glass panels to a specialized shop (it's actually plexiglass because it's more transparent than glass and doesn't have a green color cast that glass has). But, I won't redo this, next time I'll buy off the shelf frames that I'll modify with hinged backs, it'll be a lot quicker.

I think the thread is about printers. Staying on topic, for photo printers A3+ / A2, Keith Cooper of Northlight-Images UK runs a channel where he provides some valuable photo printing advice and printer reviews here: Photo printing tips and practice - YouTube

[tcarter]

I’ve used Epson photo printers for years, and had no issues (other than printers going obsolete) with the prints I have made at home. I currently have a Stylus Photo R3000 (previous R1800) for “large” prints, and an expressions XP7100 aio for small prints. I get my inks for the r3000 from Epson, because I can’t find them locally. The R3000 does a great job on photo, matte, velvet fine art, and other papers if you download and install the profiles for each type you intend to use. I have several prints up that are over 10 yrs old, and they still look great, some framed, some bare paper.
For prints larger than 13x19” I use Costco Photo service. I have had a couple shots printed on aluminum (high gloss) at 20x30”, and they look great.
As a previous post mentioned, it is important (at least on a seldom used machine) to at least do a nozzle check print every so often to keep the print nozzles flowing.

[AggieDad]

Does your city have a photographic society which might have printers available?

Here in Houston, Texas I am a member of the Houston Center for Photography which has a fully-equipped print lab with Epson P800 printers for prints up to 17" wide and a 44" Epson 9900 for very large prints. I supply my own paper and pay for the ink I use.

If there is a similar organization in your city, it might be the solution to your problem.

[jgnfld]

A bit higher than your range, but not much these days is the Canon 200--about 550USD. I bought one a couple years ago just as it came out and was very satisfied with it for about 5 months. Then it kinda' got buried when I did renovations over a nearly 24 month period and only recently got to dig back down to it and reconnect in its newly renovated space. Expected to have all sorts of issues especially considering all the dust that was generated as a lot of old plaster was taken out in nearby areas and replaced with gyproc. But even after not being used for nearly 2 years the test page printed perfectly including alignment and all nozzles. Printed a 5x7 and it was as perfect as fresh out of the box as well. Uses 8 color Canon CLI-65 system.

I made a number of 8x10 prints including some mounted in the south-facing front hall with a windowed door and overhead transom window (that area never got buried). I note they have suffered no light damage in a bit over 2 years now even with direct sun exposure for a couple of hours a day.