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05-14-2022, 04:35 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by steephill Quote
Interesting. It appears the custom film holder offers only marginal improvements to sharpness and contrast, probably amenable in post-processing. I must assume the negatives were quite flat to begin with.

05-14-2022, 05:33 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
Interesting. It appears the custom film holder offers only marginal improvements to sharpness and contrast, probably amenable in post-processing. I must assume the negatives were quite flat to begin with.
I have an old Epson Perfection 1200U and used to get pretty sharp scans from negatives back in the day. I tried scanning some negatives last year and couldn't get a sharp result. Presumably because the negatives are now no longer flat.

05-14-2022, 07:32 AM - 1 Like   #18
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I have an Epson 1640 which includes a negative/slide scanner adapter. The reflection copy cover has the ability to raise 13mm while maintaining parallelism. This is primarily to accommodate a thick object being copied, and as mentioned, the depth of focus is less than this value, so anything scanned needs to be as close to the cover glass as possible.

Last edited by Bob 256; 05-14-2022 at 07:49 AM.
05-14-2022, 07:50 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
I have an Epson 1640 which includes a negative/slide scanner adapter. The reflection copy cover has the ability to raise 13mm while maintaining parallelism. As mentioned, however, the depth of focus is less than this value, so anything scanned needs to be as close to the cover glass as possible.
The 1200U comes with a negative scanner adapter as well but it still doesn't completely flatten the negatives. Also ideally there would be a second focus distance to be used with the adapter as the negative cannot touch the glass but I don't suppose there is. The most important thing seems to be flat negatives.



05-14-2022, 08:45 AM   #20
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My old Epson GT-7000 flatbed (c1998) holds the negatives actually on the glass when copying, (Newton's rings can be an issue with large negatives), the illumination is done by a replacement document cover which includes a fluorescent? light source.
At 1200dpi it's a bit limited for 35mm film, but it's good enough for the occasional 120/620 neg that needs salvaging
05-14-2022, 10:53 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
If I actually commercialise the products as hoped, I expect they would appeal to a fairly limited market that would saturate quite quickly, hence it would be a small "cottage industry" endeavour rather than a serious business prospect...
Kick-starters / crowd funding projects can fit your project. Or you can make it 3D printed + kit, open-source, people can download your files and use their 3D printer to fabricate. There is the Standard 4x5 view camera , using that business model (https://standardcameras.com/)
05-14-2022, 11:56 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Kick-starters / crowd funding projects can fit your project.
Yes, I must look into that, and relatively soon. It could potentially make the business model much easier - having firm commitment from a set number of customers in advance, so I can get the required components produced and create a specific number of completed and packaged units or kits ready for shipping. If I simply supply to order, I'll have to maintain a small amount of stock for fulfilment or else manufacture to order, with long lead times. I know of one film holder manufacturer who does the latter, and folks don't seem to mind too much - but I'd rather not keep people waiting three weeks to receive what they've paid for...

Anyway, depending on how much time I devote to this, I'm probably a month away from having functional, alpha-tested products ready... then I need to have them independently beta-tested and allow for at least one round of modifications and re-tests. So... I've a bit of wiggle room to explore the business model

05-14-2022, 02:59 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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Take a look at a youtube channel - Nick Carver. He is a professional architectural photographer that shoots large and medium frame film camera as a hobby. This means that he digitizes the negatives. He has quite a few videos on his techniques - and film holders with flat bed scanners - how he exactly goes about it, approaches, software, problems, and solutions. Also, his videos are extremely well done and entertaining.Rather than posting links - which would just make this post long... here are some titles of the videos where he does some scanning - there are more, these are just a few that I can recall.
  • Tips for Cleaning Dust on Film Scans
  • Fine Art Photography: Ocotillo Prints and Ocotillo Prints Follow-Up - These two he used both flat bed and drum scanning
  • Comparing Film Scans: Drum vs Flatbed vs DSLR
  • Film Scanning Tips for Epson Perfection Scanners
  • Film Photography Tips: Scanning Instant Film (without Newton Rings)
  • Making a Fine Art Photography Print (1 of 2) - he starts out with scanning...
PS - I also recall that he also uses another technique with some glass plates and a couple of drops of liquid to hold the negative flat against the glass, then he needs to do some manipulations to get the flatbed scanner to focus on the plane of the negative - I think I remembering this correctly.

05-14-2022, 03:12 PM - 1 Like   #24
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I have a CanoScan 9000F mark II and if this endeavor of making holders for the scanners, I would get in line if you could make a holder for 2x2 slides and negatives. My father used a Mamiya C330 for many years. Sadly, because 2x2 holders are not included, I can not scan the slides he shot. Same goes for the 4x5 he also shot.
05-14-2022, 07:15 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Take a look at a youtube channel - Nick Carver. He is a professional architectural photographer that shoots large and medium frame film camera as a hobby. This means that he digitizes the negatives. He has quite a few videos on his techniques - and film holders with flat bed scanners - how he exactly goes about it, approaches, software, problems, and solutions. Also, his videos are extremely well done and entertaining.
Yes, he uses the Betterscanning.com inverted fluid mounting and his tests show that this gives the best quality results with his scanner. I think his comparison tests are pretty reliable. He seems to know what he is doing…
05-17-2022, 07:58 AM   #26
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And beware, not all scanners are any good for scanning film negs. Epson V39 for example - great scanner but not for negs.
05-17-2022, 08:13 AM   #27
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I have a Canon 9000F MK II and while the lid will raise to around one inch off the bed, my film adapters are typically around 1/8" in total thickness. It's been said earlier but the critical dimension here is the height of the film above the scanner bed and being able to hold that height over the entire film surface. My best adapter (from a now defunct company) has a piece of anti Newton ring glass above the film to hold it as flat and parallel as possible relative to the scanner bed. Oh, on a somewhat different subject I have tried to photograph negatives using a holder designed for for that purpose but have had disappointing results I believe due to the lack of software that does what scanner software does like ViewScan and Silverlight in processing the resulting file(s). I currently scan 35mm negatives with a Konica Dimage Scan Dual IV which produces 13mp files.


Good luck with your endeavor

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05-17-2022, 09:36 AM   #28
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I have an Epson Perfection v600 and the floating hinges on mine have a maximum clearance of one inch when the hinges float to their highest. Just for fun, the Epson negative holders are 3/16 inch thick. I hope that helps!
05-17-2022, 09:51 AM   #29
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As mentioned above, the lid and the hinge are usually not the critical things here. In my Canoscan 8600F the original film holder positions the negative some 0,6-0,7 mm above the glass plate of the scanner.
The resolutions figures stated by scanner manufacturers are often quite high. The scanners make big files all right, but the achievable real-life resolution is nearly always much lower as the optical quality sets the upper limit. Flatbeds are fine for medium format films, but for 35mm films it takes a dedicated film scanner to get all the information out of the film.

Last edited by PePe; 05-17-2022 at 10:09 AM.
05-18-2022, 01:40 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
"coy"
Wot a man from North-East of England, that's gotta be a first.
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