Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-02-2023, 01:52 AM   #1
Pentaxian
IsaacReaves's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Cotes d'Armor, Bretagne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 324
Lightroom doesn't import lens data from PEF?

I took a giant leap (for me) and reverted to Windows 11 on my desktop from Linux so I could give the Adobe tools a try. When I import and open a photo for editing the lens correction module doesn't pick up the lens by default. All the options for Pentax lenses are in the list and when I manually select it, the correction is just fine. Is this normal behavior in Lightroom? The same module in Darktable automatically preselects the lens data from the RAW.

Any ideas?

cheers

08-02-2023, 02:04 AM - 1 Like   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
ffking's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Old South Wales
Posts: 6,007
My experience is that it depends on the age of the lens, but it certainly picks out the newer ones automatically
08-02-2023, 02:22 AM - 1 Like   #3
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2014
Location: Linz
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,086
Usually LR preselects the lens too (it has to be an AF lens with a data-pin though).
I have 1 lens where this doesn't happen either (with a old LR 5 version): my DA-L 18-55mm AL WR lens (cheaper kit-lens version with plastic mount and without quick-shift).

Have you tested with DNG files and another lens too?
08-02-2023, 04:23 AM - 1 Like   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 342
On the library tab in lightroom, in Meta data on the right you should see "Camera + Lens" if the lens isn't there LR isn't finding a recognized lens ID in the file (Pentax cameras put a code for the lens in the maker note field of the EXIF data, and various things understand the code - and other maker notes).

If the lens is is found, then on the develop page, if you tick corrections it will automatically select a profile for the lens if there is one. Not all lens have profiles.

I've used DNG in preference to PEF for a long time but I went back to some old PEFs and they work fine - LR picked the right profile for my FA 77 from a K10D file shot on the day the lens arrived.

08-02-2023, 04:34 AM   #5
Pentaxian
IsaacReaves's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Cotes d'Armor, Bretagne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 324
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
I have 1 lens where this doesn't happen either (with a old LR 5 version): my DA-L 18-55mm AL WR lens (cheaper kit-lens version with plastic mount and without quick-shift).
thanks, and yes, this 18-55 AL WR is all what I've got for the moment. Seems like it's an issue with Lighroom and this lens. I think I can create a preset to apply correction so it's no biggie.

QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
Have you tested with DNG files and another lens too?
This kit jobber is my only lens. I'll give DNG a shot and see if that toggles something. I'm still undecided on what I want next for a lens. Probably the 20-40 ltd.

---------- Post added 08-02-23 at 02:29 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by James O'Neill Quote
On the library tab in lightroom, in Meta data on the right you should see "Camera + Lens" if the lens isn't there LR isn't finding a recognized lens ID in the file (Pentax cameras put a code for the lens in the maker note field of the EXIF data, and various things understand the code - and other maker notes).
(strange - I thought I replied to this but it vanished! reposting from memory)

Thanks for that, James - as a LR n00b I was wondering where that was buried! I verified that the lens does not show up in the EXIF data or other metadata. It does manage to get the focal length correct, however. Good 'nuff, really.
08-02-2023, 05:55 AM - 1 Like   #6
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 912
I have LR 6 and have the same issue with my D FA 21mm Ltd. All of my other lenses are recognized and a profile added automatically (with .DNG files). For this one lens I have to manually select it (and it does appear in the selection list just like your experience). Even though LR has a valid profile it doesn't apply the lens name to the photos taken with that lens (both .jpg and .dng) so I'm using lenstagger on all of the photos I take with that lens. It's a pain.
08-02-2023, 01:53 PM   #7
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
ramseybuckeye's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hampstead, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 17,197
QuoteOriginally posted by nosliwmit Quote
I have LR 6 and have the same issue with my D FA 21mm Ltd. All of my other lenses are recognized and a profile added automatically (with .DNG files). For this one lens I have to manually select it (and it does appear in the selection list just like your experience). Even though LR has a valid profile it doesn't apply the lens name to the photos taken with that lens (both .jpg and .dng) so I'm using lenstagger on all of the photos I take with that lens. It's a pain.
That may be because LR6 hasn't been updated in years so it may not automatically select newer lenses, but being that you can select it, that is odd.

08-03-2023, 10:35 AM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 342
QuoteOriginally posted by nosliwmit Quote
I have LR 6 and have the same issue with my D FA 21mm Ltd. All of my other lenses are recognized and a profile added automatically (with .DNG files). For this one lens I have to manually select it (and it does appear in the selection list just like your experience). Even though LR has a valid profile it doesn't apply the lens name to the photos taken with that lens (both .jpg and .dng) so I'm using lenstagger on all of the photos I take with that lens. It's a pain.
It is the pain expected if your software is older than your camera and/or lens. Since the current CC version says it V12.4 I'm a little surprised it V6 has profiles for lenses released in the last few years. But knowing Adobe it wouldn't surprise me if the codes to identify the lenses are buried deep in the binary where they are not doing any updating (the two byte codes for lens give 2114 for the DFA* 85 and 2115 for the DFA 21 ltd, I'm guessing the next releases had 2116/7/8 etc.) And the profile says "HD PENTAX-D FA 21mm F2.4 ED Limited DC WR" needs X for distortion, Y for vignetting etc. and is updated.... but the old software sees ID 2115 and says "Never heard of it" instead of "That's a HD PENTAX-D FA 21mm F2.4 ED Limited DC WR" which up-to-date versions of LR do.
08-03-2023, 04:05 PM   #9
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,784
I have used Adobe products since around 1998. Updating has always stopped upon the release of a new version. I ran CS6 and LR 6.14 until sometime in 2021 when I broke down and started renting. Lightroom 6.14 didn't recognize my DFA*50, DFA85 and DFA70-210 other than the reported focal length.
08-03-2023, 04:56 PM   #10
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2014
Location: Linz
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,086
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I have used Adobe products since around 1998. Updating has always stopped upon the release of a new version.
I think there are too few Pentax users for Adobe to really care about the cheaper DA-L offerings, the lens profile of the DA version can be used as it is optically the same lens, therefore Adobe saw no need to fix the missing lens name in the exif data.
The DA-L 18-55mm AL WR lens is from 2013, as is LR 5, so an update to fix the missing exif data could have been done.
08-03-2023, 11:48 PM   #11
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 342
QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
I think there are too few Pentax users for Adobe to really care about the cheaper DA-L offerings, the lens profile of the DA version can be used as it is optically the same lens, therefore Adobe saw no need to fix the missing lens name in the exif data.
The DA-L 18-55mm AL WR lens is from 2013, as is LR 5, so an update to fix the missing exif data could have been done.
It's slightly different .
Each FA, FAJ and DA, and DFA lens has a code assigned to it. Some Sigma and Tamron Lenses have their own codes, some share a common "third party lens" code. Somewhere in all software which decodes lens information - Pentax or any other maker - there is a table of ID to name - you can see one here Pentax Tags So 8, 67 is the two byte code for the DFA 21 ltd for example - that become 8 * 256 + 67 = 2115 in some software. Periodically these lists get updated. With Exiftool this is often someone sending Phil Harvey a mail, for Adobe the camera/lens makers probably have a developer contact.

As far as I can tell lightroom doesn't store all of maker note field - it basically has one table that says "these are lens names / camera names etc that I have seen in pictures that are/have been in this catalog (the LR CAT file is a SQLLite database and I've done some stuff poking inside it going back 15 years), The database then says image with internal number 6789 is stored in file IMGP1234.DNG and uses camera 2 and lens 3."
When it comes to profiles it seems that the something says "If you have lens with the name 'HD PENTAX-D FA 21mm F2.4 ED Limited DC WR' use these settings " and lightroom goes "Aha! Lens 3 is that lens, so when I edit this image that's the profile to pick". The profile data and identifying data seem to be maintained separately. So it is possible that (a) Your new lens is recognized by a new version of LR, but there is no profile for it (b) a lens is added to the profile database which is shared by old and new version of lightroom, but an old version doesn't recognize the lens, so the profile needs to be manually selected, (c) everything works seamlessly
08-04-2023, 02:01 AM   #12
Pentaxian
IsaacReaves's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Cotes d'Armor, Bretagne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 324
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by James O'Neill Quote
I think there are too few Pentax users for Adobe to really care about the cheaper DA-L offerings
It's just sloppy on their part. My lens is recognized just fine by the Topaz suite, Luminar Neo, and all the FOSS stuff (which all pull from lensfun). You know who else gets it wrong, which is a bit surprising ... Flickr! Flickr misses the lens info, too.

And it's not really a "notes" field that I'm seeing in the exif data. Checking from the PEF and ORF files from my m43 body - I see that both include the Lens ID and Lens Type in the exif data. The Oly data also includes Info & Model. So I'm guessing that the Flickr / Adobe duopoly just happily ignores the very specific Lens ID field in the exif data.

After reading decades of complaints against Adobe products I'm not the least bit surprised. Ah well The cost of the software is down to the price of a coffee and a scone after they spent a long time losing the battle to cracked torrent copies. I don't really mind it too much, but the fact that it's correct in their competitors software, both free and paid, tells me something about their mindset hasn't really changed.

45mm Olympus m43

Lens Type : Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8
Lens Serial Number : ABSA50512
Lens Firmware Version : 1.101
Lens Properties : 0x4100
Conversion Lens :
Lens Info : 45mm f/1.8
Lens Model : OLYMPUS M.45mm F1.8
Lens ID : Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8

Pentax 18-55:
Lens Type : smc PENTAX-DA L 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR
Lens Focal Length : 18.1 mm
Lens ID : smc PENTAX-DA L 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR
08-04-2023, 11:45 AM - 1 Like   #13
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 342
QuoteOriginally posted by IsaacReaves Quote
It's just sloppy on their part. My lens is recognized just fine by the Topaz suite, Luminar Neo, and all the FOSS stuff (which all pull from lensfun). You know who else gets it wrong, which is a bit surprising ... Flickr! Flickr misses the lens info, too.

And it's not really a "notes" field that I'm seeing in the exif data. Checking from the PEF and ORF files from my m43 body - I see that both include the Lens ID and Lens Type in the exif data. The Oly data also includes Info & Model. So I'm guessing that the Flickr / Adobe duopoly just happily ignores the very specific Lens ID field in the exif data.

After reading decades of complaints against Adobe products I'm not the least bit surprised. Ah well The cost of the software is down to the price of a coffee and a scone after they spent a long time losing the battle to cracked torrent copies. I don't really mind it too much, but the fact that it's correct in their competitors software, both free and paid, tells me something about their mindset hasn't really changed.

OK. Full and rather nerdy story.
EXIF is made up of many numbered fields. There is a number for camera maker (0x010f), another for lens maker (0x0433), one for camera model (0x0110)and another for lens model (0x0434) even lens serial number (0x0435) .
When you look at a Jpeg , raw or TIF file from most cameras the lens fields are missing. A few DO populate it.

FA and later lenses can provide some data to the camera - the original 'A' contacts gave it the maximum aperture and the range from max to min. FA lenses can tell the camera their (current) focal length, where they are focused and their ID.

You might think that some at Pentax / Hoya / Ricoh would have said "there's space in the firmware for a table of names and IDs" And taken something like 8 & 67 / 2115 from the lens and filled in those exif fields but no.

There is a ginormous field called "Maker note" which divides into more fields, and makers don't give away all the info - but that link I posted above is from the middle of the list of things in the Pentax field so given the right program - and I've written my own - you can read those fields and know where the camera was angled from the SR system, what the temperature sensors said, the battery level, focus points selected, values for all metering segments and yes, the lens ID.

The problem for a software writer is keeping that maintaining that list of IDs to names for all the cameras which don't do the work for you. If you have a separate data file with the data in it's easy - the newest file works with ancient software. But it's commonly buried in compiled code. Someone who doesn't keep their software current is going to hit problems. People who use free/open-source software tend not to be laggards - the software is a perpetual work in progress, something you need is missing, someone adds it, you get the new version. Adobe, Microsoft and the rest HAVE changed their mindset: instead of selling people a version which will become less and less useful with time, and charging customers a huge amount for each new update - making laggards - they now rent access to the current version and everyone who subscribes is up to date. "I want to my 2009 lightroom to understand a lens released in 2021" wasn't going to
08-08-2023, 05:52 AM - 1 Like   #14
Pentaxian
IsaacReaves's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Cotes d'Armor, Bretagne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 324
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by James O'Neill Quote
OK. Full and rather nerdy story.
EXIF is made up of many numbered fields. There is a number for camera maker (0x010f), another for lens maker (0x0433), one for camera model (0x0110)and another for lens model (0x0434) even lens serial number (0x0435) .
When you look at a Jpeg , raw or TIF file from most cameras the lens fields are missing. A few DO populate it.

FA and later lenses can provide some data to the camera - the original 'A' contacts gave it the maximum aperture and the range from max to min. FA lenses can tell the camera their (current) focal length, where they are focused and their ID.

You might think that some at Pentax / Hoya / Ricoh would have said "there's space in the firmware for a table of names and IDs" And taken something like 8 & 67 / 2115 from the lens and filled in those exif fields but no.

There is a ginormous field called "Maker note" which divides into more fields, and makers don't give away all the info - but that link I posted above is from the middle of the list of things in the Pentax field so given the right program - and I've written my own - you can read those fields and know where the camera was angled from the SR system, what the temperature sensors said, the battery level, focus points selected, values for all metering segments and yes, the lens ID.

The problem for a software writer is keeping that maintaining that list of IDs to names for all the cameras which don't do the work for you. If you have a separate data file with the data in it's easy - the newest file works with ancient software. But it's commonly buried in compiled code. Someone who doesn't keep their software current is going to hit problems. People who use free/open-source software tend not to be laggards - the software is a perpetual work in progress, something you need is missing, someone adds it, you get the new version. Adobe, Microsoft and the rest HAVE changed their mindset: instead of selling people a version which will become less and less useful with time, and charging customers a huge amount for each new update - making laggards - they now rent access to the current version and everyone who subscribes is up to date. "I want to my 2009 lightroom to understand a lens released in 2021" wasn't going to

Thanks, James. I see what you mean now after having dug up the original EXIF specs from CIPA and then the Adobe authored ISO standard and saw the various KV fields and hierarchy. What a mess Nikon users are often in the same boat, apparently, as the metadata for quite a large number of older Nikkor lenses are also written out to MakerNote.

FWIW: I've been wanting to try Capture One for a long while and just installed it the other day. Not only did it read in my PEFs from the imported Adobe catalog (which surprised me as I thought they were unsupported...) , but it also found the correct flavor of my 18-55 right away when I went to edit.
08-31-2023, 04:01 AM - 1 Like   #15
Pentaxian
IsaacReaves's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Cotes d'Armor, Bretagne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 324
Original Poster
Quick update to seal off this thread: after bumbling around and working past my own ignorance, I figured out how to apply the lens correction into a preset and have it applied on import. Completely sorted and I've been increasingly impressed with LrC the more I've used it.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
code, correction, data, dng, exif, id, import, import lens data, lens, lightroom, lightroom doesn't import, lr, maker, module, photography, photoshop, thanks, version, wr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lightroom CC gets new features ... Lightroom 6.1 doesn't Quicksand Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 33 03-12-2017 04:35 PM
Pentax FluCard may now work with LightRoom's Auto Import! amoringello Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 4 11-25-2016 01:04 PM
Lightroom Can't Read Files - No Import Kenntak Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 03-09-2014 02:04 PM
Import camera presets in Lightroom? audiobomber Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 8 04-15-2013 01:23 PM
Lightroom 4 import problems Anvh Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 4 06-02-2012 08:37 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:56 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top