PEF or DNG

Nestos · 07-08-2009, 05:07 AM

Quick question. Which is the better format to shoot in, PEF or DNG. Since getting a K20D I've used DNG but I was wondering what the consensus is on the two formats. For post production I use Corel PSP and occasionally GIMP.

Thanks
Neil

jezza323 · 07-08-2009, 05:16 AM

i did originally use DNG because of compatibility, but now im using lightroom which supports PEF, i use PEF, as the in camera DNGs on the K200D are uncompressed, but the PEFs are, so i can fit more on the card.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-08-2009, 05:23 AM

I am now stuck.

I also use Corel PSP and neither PEF or DNG from my new K7 seem to be compatable.

Corel is claiming thatr RAW from the K7 is not supported. If you are using a K20, how does corel deal with the DNG and PEF files?

attack11 · 07-08-2009, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Nestos

Quick question. Which is the better format to shoot in, PEF or DNG. Since getting a K20D I've used DNG but I was wondering what the consensus is on the two formats. For post production I use Corel PSP and occasionally GIMP.

Thanks
Neil

always shoot dng. recompress for storage if the uncompressed files from the camera scare you.

the k7 uses the new 1.3 dng spec i'm guessing, so coral just has to update their software. adobe released their update on the 24th, and prior to that had a beta available.

Nestos · 07-08-2009, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I am now stuck.

I also use Corel PSP and neither PEF or DNG from my new K7 seem to be compatable.

Corel is claiming thatr RAW from the K7 is not supported. If you are using a K20, how does corel deal with the DNG and PEF files?

It is supported if that's what you mean. I'm using version X2 ultimate but I had to upgrade from XI when I first bought my K20D because I was experiencing a similar problem to the one that you have now.

deejjjaaaa · 07-08-2009, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Nestos

Quick question.

PEF DNG - Google Search

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-08-2009, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Nestos

It is supported if that's what you mean. I'm using version X2 ultimate but I had to upgrade from XI when I first bought my K20D because I was experiencing a similar problem to the one that you have now.

If I send you a pair of K7 files, can you try to open them in PSP X2 Ultimate?

Marc Sabatella · 07-08-2009, 08:13 AM

I'd sugest browsing this forum - the topic is discussed practically once a week. Bottom line: the formats contains the same data but in different containers. The PEF container has the advantage of being smaller than the DNG files creates by the camera, but you can always create compressed DNG files later using the Adobe DNG Converter that are smaller still. PEF files require metadata to be stored in sidecar files, DNG allows it to be stored within the image file itself. Some believe PEF will be more liekly to still be supported in the future, some believe DNG will.

Wheatfield · 07-08-2009, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

I'd sugest browsing this forum - the topic is discussed practically once a week. Bottom line: the formats contains the same data but in different containers. The PEF container has the advantage of being smaller than the DNG files creates by the camera, but you can always create compressed DNG files later using the Adobe DNG Converter that are smaller still. PEF files require metadata to be stored in sidecar files, DNG allows it to be stored within the image file itself. Some believe PEF will be more liekly to still be supported in the future, some believe DNG will.

Future support isn't really all that much of an issue, but I'm putting my money on DNG rather than PEF. I have software right now that works with DNG, I'm not seeing that changing in the future.
The nice thing about DNG is that older software can be used with newer cameras. As was posted in another thread, a new K-7 user can't get his PEF files to read with CS3. This is something that will never be rectified by Adobe, as they have moved past that program and are no longer issing rar converter updates for it.
OTOH, I was able to open my K20 DNG files with Adobe Photoshop 7, and I expect my K-7 DNGs will open on that older software as well.
This is a good thing, as I don't have the most up to date software on all my computers, but it is nice to be able to keep working in the event of a machine failure without having to load anything new.
The K-7 DNG files are smaller than the PEF files by a very small amount (perhaps 200K), so what was true in the past about file size is no longer true.
With storage being as cheap as it is, I always thought the file size thing was a pretty specious arguement anyway.

Nestos · 07-08-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

If I send you a pair of K7 files, can you try to open them in PSP X2 Ultimate?

Sure, I'll try GIMP as well if you like

deejjjaaaa · 07-08-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

The nice thing about DNG is that older software can be used with newer cameras. As was posted in another thread, a new K-7 user can't get his PEF files to read with CS3. This is something that will never be rectified by Adobe, as they have moved past that program and are no longer issing rar converter updates for it.

you are missing the point that if it will be really necessary to use an outdated raw converter which is not as good as a new one (raw converter I mean... what is the point to shoot w/ a better camera and limit yourself in raw conversion) then you can always convert your .PEF files into .DNG files, but if you will (never say never) decide to use some other raw converter by any chance you might find out that your DNG files are not supported... and you can't make .PEF from .DNG (unless you will write such software yourself which I doubt), but you can always make .DNG from .PEF... so .PEF is a safer format to use in camera.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-08-2009, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

you are missing the point that if it will be really necessary to use an outdated raw converter which is not as good as a new one (raw converter I mean... what is the point to shoot w/ a better camera and limit yourself in raw conversion) then you can always convert your .PEF files into .DNG files, but if you will (never say never) decide to use some other raw converter by any chance you might find out that your DNG files are not supported... and you can't make .PEF from .DNG (unless you will write such software yourself which I doubt), but you can always make .DNG from .PEF... so .PEF is a safer format to use in camera.

I think actually the point is the opposite. You have a progream for photo processing, which may or may not be updated as often as cameras. For example PSPX2 can't even read DNG files from a K7. this means that even the standard is not secure.

deejjjaaaa · 07-08-2009, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I think actually the point is the opposite. You have a progream for photo processing, which may or may not be updated as often as cameras. For example PSPX2 can't even read DNG files from a K7. this means that even the standard is not secure.

free Adove DNG converter can (should be able - I did not try it myself that way) downgrade your in camera .DNG files to ACR v2.4 compatibility minimum...

Wheatfield · 07-08-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

you are missing the point that if it will be really necessary to use an outdated raw converter which is not as good as a new one (raw converter I mean... what is the point to shoot w/ a better camera and limit yourself in raw conversion) then you can always convert your .PEF files into .DNG files, but if you will (never say never) decide to use some other raw converter by any chance you might find out that your DNG files are not supported... and you can't make .PEF from .DNG (unless you will write such software yourself which I doubt), but you can always make .DNG from .PEF... so .PEF is a safer format to use in camera.

I think you missed the point that being able to keep working, even though the software is outdated is more important to me than being dead in the water because of a hardware failure.
I'm certainly not advocating that everyone should go back to single core 2kh processors for image editing, what I am saying is that it is nice that if I have to, I can, and can do it seamlessly.

I think it is pretty debatable that an older converter will necessarily produce visually poorer results than a newer one. While I am quite enamored with the feature set that Adobe added to the CS4 converter, I didn't see any deficiencies in what the Photoshop 7 converter gave me during the short time I was using it recently as compared to the CS4 converter.

I think you may have a strawman in your field.

I'm pretty sure that Adobe will not drop support for their DNG format as long as they are around.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-08-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

free Adove DNG converter can (should be able - I did not try it myself that way) downgrade your in camera .DNG files to ACR v2.4 compatibility minimum...

I got the latest version of the converter, (V5.4 released Jubne 24) and it converts PEF or DNG from my K7 to DNG. BUT neither of the new files is readable by PSP X2.

The DNG files are, however, readable by my EXIF viewer, to show an image, which to me suggests that the real problem is that the implementation of PSP X2 DNG converter does not comply to the DNG standard.

some new data

See the following link. Seems I did not test it out fully , DNG converter makes files fully readable to PSPX2 Ultimate

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...tml#post666928

07-08-2009, 05:07 AM	#1
Nestos Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire, United Kingdom Posts: 15	PEF or DNG Quick question. Which is the better format to shoot in, PEF or DNG. Since getting a K20D I've used DNG but I was wondering what the consensus is on the two formats. For post production I use Corel PSP and occasionally GIMP. Thanks Neil

07-08-2009, 05:23 AM	#3
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	I am now stuck. I also use Corel PSP and neither PEF or DNG from my new K7 seem to be compatable. Corel is claiming thatr RAW from the K7 is not supported. If you are using a K20, how does corel deal with the DNG and PEF files? Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 07-08-2009 at 05:29 AM.

07-08-2009, 12:16 PM	#15
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa free Adove DNG converter can (should be able - I did not try it myself that way) downgrade your in camera .DNG files to ACR v2.4 compatibility minimum... I got the latest version of the converter, (V5.4 released Jubne 24) and it converts PEF or DNG from my K7 to DNG. BUT neither of the new files is readable by PSP X2. The DNG files are, however, readable by my EXIF viewer, to show an image, which to me suggests that the real problem is that the implementation of PSP X2 DNG converter does not comply to the DNG standard. some new data See the following link. Seems I did not test it out fully , DNG converter makes files fully readable to PSPX2 Ultimate https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...tml#post666928 Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 07-13-2009 at 11:20 AM.

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07-08-2009, 05:16 AM	#2
jezza323 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,421	i did originally use DNG because of compatibility, but now im using lightroom which supports PEF, i use PEF, as the in camera DNGs on the K200D are uncompressed, but the PEFs are, so i can fit more on the card.

07-08-2009, 05:37 AM	#4
attack11 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ottawa, ON - Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 658	Originally posted by Nestos Quick question. Which is the better format to shoot in, PEF or DNG. Since getting a K20D I've used DNG but I was wondering what the consensus is on the two formats. For post production I use Corel PSP and occasionally GIMP. Thanks Neil always shoot dng. recompress for storage if the uncompressed files from the camera scare you. the k7 uses the new 1.3 dng spec i'm guessing, so coral just has to update their software. adobe released their update on the 24th, and prior to that had a beta available.

07-08-2009, 06:04 AM	#5
Nestos Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire, United Kingdom Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I am now stuck. I also use Corel PSP and neither PEF or DNG from my new K7 seem to be compatable. Corel is claiming thatr RAW from the K7 is not supported. If you are using a K20, how does corel deal with the DNG and PEF files? It is supported if that's what you mean. I'm using version X2 ultimate but I had to upgrade from XI when I first bought my K20D because I was experiencing a similar problem to the one that you have now.

07-08-2009, 06:34 AM	#6
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Nestos Quick question. PEF DNG - Google Search

07-08-2009, 07:52 AM	#7
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by Nestos It is supported if that's what you mean. I'm using version X2 ultimate but I had to upgrade from XI when I first bought my K20D because I was experiencing a similar problem to the one that you have now. If I send you a pair of K7 files, can you try to open them in PSP X2 Ultimate?

07-08-2009, 08:13 AM	#8
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I'd sugest browsing this forum - the topic is discussed practically once a week. Bottom line: the formats contains the same data but in different containers. The PEF container has the advantage of being smaller than the DNG files creates by the camera, but you can always create compressed DNG files later using the Adobe DNG Converter that are smaller still. PEF files require metadata to be stored in sidecar files, DNG allows it to be stored within the image file itself. Some believe PEF will be more liekly to still be supported in the future, some believe DNG will.

07-08-2009, 10:07 AM	#9
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella I'd sugest browsing this forum - the topic is discussed practically once a week. Bottom line: the formats contains the same data but in different containers. The PEF container has the advantage of being smaller than the DNG files creates by the camera, but you can always create compressed DNG files later using the Adobe DNG Converter that are smaller still. PEF files require metadata to be stored in sidecar files, DNG allows it to be stored within the image file itself. Some believe PEF will be more liekly to still be supported in the future, some believe DNG will. Future support isn't really all that much of an issue, but I'm putting my money on DNG rather than PEF. I have software right now that works with DNG, I'm not seeing that changing in the future. The nice thing about DNG is that older software can be used with newer cameras. As was posted in another thread, a new K-7 user can't get his PEF files to read with CS3. This is something that will never be rectified by Adobe, as they have moved past that program and are no longer issing rar converter updates for it. OTOH, I was able to open my K20 DNG files with Adobe Photoshop 7, and I expect my K-7 DNGs will open on that older software as well. This is a good thing, as I don't have the most up to date software on all my computers, but it is nice to be able to keep working in the event of a machine failure without having to load anything new. The K-7 DNG files are smaller than the PEF files by a very small amount (perhaps 200K), so what was true in the past about file size is no longer true. With storage being as cheap as it is, I always thought the file size thing was a pretty specious arguement anyway.

07-08-2009, 10:17 AM	#10
Nestos Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire, United Kingdom Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge If I send you a pair of K7 files, can you try to open them in PSP X2 Ultimate? Sure, I'll try GIMP as well if you like

07-08-2009, 10:25 AM	#11
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Wheatfield The nice thing about DNG is that older software can be used with newer cameras. As was posted in another thread, a new K-7 user can't get his PEF files to read with CS3. This is something that will never be rectified by Adobe, as they have moved past that program and are no longer issing rar converter updates for it. you are missing the point that if it will be really necessary to use an outdated raw converter which is not as good as a new one (raw converter I mean... what is the point to shoot w/ a better camera and limit yourself in raw conversion) then you can always convert your .PEF files into .DNG files, but if you will (never say never) decide to use some other raw converter by any chance you might find out that your DNG files are not supported... and you can't make .PEF from .DNG (unless you will write such software yourself which I doubt), but you can always make .DNG from .PEF... so .PEF is a safer format to use in camera.

07-08-2009, 10:32 AM	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa you are missing the point that if it will be really necessary to use an outdated raw converter which is not as good as a new one (raw converter I mean... what is the point to shoot w/ a better camera and limit yourself in raw conversion) then you can always convert your .PEF files into .DNG files, but if you will (never say never) decide to use some other raw converter by any chance you might find out that your DNG files are not supported... and you can't make .PEF from .DNG (unless you will write such software yourself which I doubt), but you can always make .DNG from .PEF... so .PEF is a safer format to use in camera. I think actually the point is the opposite. You have a progream for photo processing, which may or may not be updated as often as cameras. For example PSPX2 can't even read DNG files from a K7. this means that even the standard is not secure.

07-08-2009, 10:54 AM	#13
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I think actually the point is the opposite. You have a progream for photo processing, which may or may not be updated as often as cameras. For example PSPX2 can't even read DNG files from a K7. this means that even the standard is not secure. free Adove DNG converter can (should be able - I did not try it myself that way) downgrade your in camera .DNG files to ACR v2.4 compatibility minimum...

07-08-2009, 11:27 AM	#14
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa you are missing the point that if it will be really necessary to use an outdated raw converter which is not as good as a new one (raw converter I mean... what is the point to shoot w/ a better camera and limit yourself in raw conversion) then you can always convert your .PEF files into .DNG files, but if you will (never say never) decide to use some other raw converter by any chance you might find out that your DNG files are not supported... and you can't make .PEF from .DNG (unless you will write such software yourself which I doubt), but you can always make .DNG from .PEF... so .PEF is a safer format to use in camera. I think you missed the point that being able to keep working, even though the software is outdated is more important to me than being dead in the water because of a hardware failure. I'm certainly not advocating that everyone should go back to single core 2kh processors for image editing, what I am saying is that it is nice that if I have to, I can, and can do it seamlessly. I think it is pretty debatable that an older converter will necessarily produce visually poorer results than a newer one. While I am quite enamored with the feature set that Adobe added to the CS4 converter, I didn't see any deficiencies in what the Photoshop 7 converter gave me during the short time I was using it recently as compared to the CS4 converter. I think you may have a strawman in your field. I'm pretty sure that Adobe will not drop support for their DNG format as long as they are around.