Silkypix 3 vs Lightroom 2

krypticide · 07-19-2009, 11:46 AM

I'm color-blind, so take my statements about color with a grain of salt and check for yourself. However, I've found that by increasing fill light slightly (up to 25) and increasing blacks to suit after that tends to bring back the color and contrast that I'm looking for in a relatively un-processed image. It typically works better than any preset that uses auto-whatever (tone, brightness, contrast, etc.).

Jonson PL · 07-19-2009, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

I've been using Adobe Lightroom since the original v1 beta. I'm pretty good with it - okay, I think I'm very good with it - and I am generally pretty happy about the way that it works and the output that I get. The UI is really well designed and makes it possible for me to process the 500-1000 images I bring back from a wedding very efficiently - selecting and editing.

But yesterday I downloaded the trial of Silkypix Developer Studio 3 and spent a little time playing around with it. I have to admit that I find the Silkypix UI fairly baffling. I've read some of the online manual but no doubt need to spend more time. It certainly is not "intuitive," at least not to me.

Nevertheless, I was impressed. A number of the presets seemed to snap my test images into shape instantly - doing things that I would normally take several steps doing in Lightroom. Lightroom of course has a ton of presets available but I haven't found many of them terribly useful personally. I do create some of my own, but I generally feel that they are good for the current shoot but not very useful for anything that I do later.

I'm also pleased that Silkypix 3 has some features that I wish were in Lightroom 2, in particular, a remarkably easy-to-use tool to correct perspectival distortion.

There is an E-book, so that Silkypix is easier to use.

I bought the full version Silkypix. I like the perspectival distortion tool, but somehow lost the navigation bar for it. So can't use that function at the moment :ugh:

Lucky Sky · 07-19-2009, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

Lucky,

What's an "embedded profile"?

Will

In the Develop Module, there's a panel on the right side called Camera Calibration. When you click on Camera Calibration, the very top of that now expanded panel is labeled "Profile".

What you can do is select all of your photos to be developed, go to the right side of the above described panel, and select "Embedded". That will apply that profile to all selected images.

What I did was build a preset using the "Embedded" profile amongst other things. I apply this preset to all K20D images to be developed as the first element of my workflow.

CAUTION: Apparently, the Embedded profile does not exist for all cameras. The Embedded profile is not available for K2000 images. In that particular case, I use the "Pentax 1.0" profile for all K2000 images to be developed.

I'm quite happy with the results of both camera profiles.

jasonwarth · 07-20-2009, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Lucky Sky

What you can do is select all of your photos to be developed, go to the right side of the above described panel, and select "Embedded".

Are you using Lightroom 2.4? I am (on a Mac), and I don't see any "embedded" option under the Camera Calibration panel. I see ACR 4.4, Adobe Standard, and Camera Standard.

Would you mind clarifying this?

-Jason

WMBP · 07-20-2009, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by jasonwarth

Are you using Lightroom 2.4? I am (on a Mac), and I don't see any "embedded" option under the Camera Calibration panel. I see ACR 4.4, Adobe Standard, and Camera Standard.

Jason,

I've been trying to figure this out myself. I see a number of different options here, at different times, and I cannot figure out why. I have several books on Lightroom 2 and none of them explain clearly what's going on. I've been meaning to take the time to post in the Lightroom forums over at Adobe.

Will

Mister Horrible · 07-20-2009, 07:11 PM

"embedded" will only be an option with a dng or jpeg.

What you want to look at is "Camera Standard" vs. Adobe Standard under Camera Calibration.

Camera Standard will (most likely) come closest to the Silkypix/Pentax "look"; Adobe Standard is a more generic look designed by Adobe. Either one is a matter of taste.

My preference is by far the Camera Standard for most images. I find that skies and grass, in particular, are more pleasing, and there seems to be less contrast in the shadows.

I should point out that I came *this close* to buying Silkypix. Selective editing, integration with other applications, and of course the DAM, all tipped the scales.

In Silkypix I really liked the automatic CA correction, the built-in lens correction, and I was starting to get a handle on sharpening/noise.

HTH

WMBP · 07-20-2009, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Mister Horrible

"embedded" will only be an option with a dng or jpeg.

What you want to look at is "Camera Standard" vs. Adobe Standard under Camera Calibration.

I'm only processing PEF raw files. I do see the Adobe Standard and Camera Standard options. But sometimes I see an ACR 4.4 option, and some other times I see something else. So far it's not making sense to me.

Lucky Sky · 07-20-2009, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by jasonwarth

Are you using Lightroom 2.4? I am (on a Mac), and I don't see any "embedded" option under the Camera Calibration panel. I see ACR 4.4, Adobe Standard, and Camera Standard.

Would you mind clarifying this?

-Jason

Jason & Will-

I use a PC + LR v2.4.

My options under Camera Calibration are:

ACR 4.4
Adobe Standard
Camera Standard
Embedded

Are you using a K20D? As I mentioned in my cautionary note in my original post, the "Embedded" profile appears to be camera specific. "Embedded" is not an available Camera Calibration option when I process K2000 images.

Mister Horrible · 07-20-2009, 07:53 PM

Embedded will only appear if there is an embedded camera profile, (i.e. DNG).

Adobe 4.4 is an older version of their Camera Raw colors. IMO, it provides colors that are markedly inferior to either the Adobe Standard or Camera Standard profiles, and is likely only there for backward compatability reasons.

If you're really looking for Silkypix-like colors, Camera Standard is a good starting point. (+ maybe some vibrance/ saturation.)

Lucky Sky · 07-20-2009, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

I'm only processing PEF raw files. I do see the Adobe Standard and Camera Standard options. But sometimes I see an ACR 4.4 option, and some other times I see something else. So far it's not making sense to me.

Will-
Mr. Horrible hit it right on the head while I ran that big stop sign of your question: you're shooting PEF.
I shoot exclusively DNG. That's where the "Embedded" profile is available.

jasonwarth · 07-20-2009, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

Jason,

I've been trying to figure this out myself. I see a number of different options here, at different times, and I cannot figure out why. I have several books on Lightroom 2 and none of them explain clearly what's going on. I've been meaning to take the time to post in the Lightroom forums over at Adobe.

Will

Well FWIW, I've been using a K20D with Lightroom for about 17 months, so I'm happy to chime in with whatever experiences may be useful to you. I've never used Pentax software of any kind—I've always converted to DNG and imported using Lightroom directly Perhaps that's why I can't seem to attain a better grasp of why different software causes the same RAW files to display differently.

Am I the only one who can't understand why there isn't more automation and simplicity to the Pentax/Lightroom equation? I love LR, and I love Pentax, but I'm just baffled that there isn't an automatic feature/setting for getting LR to automatically match the look of the RAW files right out of the camera.

In any case, my K-7D arrives tomorrow, and one of the (many, many) reasons I decided to "upgrade" from my K20D was to hopefully get better looking pics right out of the camera. I always get great compliments on my photos, but I feel like half of that equation (at least) is the amount of tweaking I do to each within LR. It would be nice to have a less-tedious workflow so I could spend more time shooting and less time processing—fun as it often is.

-J

WMBP · 07-21-2009, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Mister Horrible

I should point out that I came *this close* to buying Silkypix. Selective editing, integration with other applications, and of course the DAM, all tipped the scales.

In Silkypix I really liked the automatic CA correction, the built-in lens correction, and I was starting to get a handle on sharpening/noise....

I don't care much about integration with other apps. 99% of the time, I start and finish the job in Lightroom. But I agree with you about the other things that give Lightroom the advantage at least for me.

Selective editing (both with the adjustment brush and the graduated filter tool) is perhaps the single most important advantage Lightroom has over Silkypix. I have no appetite for detail editing in Photoshop, but I confess that I do fairly often use the adjustment brush in Lightroom. Just a quick touch can brighten the bride's bouquet or bring out the texture in her gown. On the other hand, I use the selective adjustment tools on only, oh, 1 of every 5 photos that I process. SO I could live without it. Silkypix DS Pro 4's "dodge" tool, combined with the ability to move the contrast "center", help a lot, but not quite enough.

I like Lightroom 2's clarity tool. I find that, with the proper clarity setting, most of my photos need NO additional sharpening during processing. If Silkypix has something similar, I have not found it yet.

I really like doing black and white conversions in Lightroom. The options avaialable are easy to understand but quite powerful. I often play with the color channels in black and white images. I suspect something like this can be done in Silkypix, too, but it's really easy to figure out in Lightroom.

As for the organizational tools in Lightroom, they, too, are important, although I am less sure about the value of these features. It's important to me to be able to rate photos (1 star to 5 stars), to flag picks and rejects, to tag photos and also assign keywords. I use all of these features constantly. But I'm not so fond of the idea of being committed to a particular program forever to manage my files. I like the fact that Silkypix can be launched without my having to have any library file handy. (Like this about Picasa, too.)

Ultimately, I think the thing I like best about Lightroom is the user interface. It just seems so well designed. I know tons of keyboard shortcuts and use them constantly. Makes it possible for me to whiz through a bunch of photos. Silkypix's UI isn't as baffling as, say, Bibble Pro's. But controlling Silkypix seems to require many more mouse clicks and grabs than controlling Lightroom does. Add in the fact that Silkypix is usually slower than Lightroom redrawing the screen after a change in settings, and the case for sticking with Lightroom gets even stronger.

WMBP · 07-21-2009, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Lucky Sky

Will-
Mr. Horrible hit it right on the head while I ran that big stop sign of your question: you're shooting PEF.
I shoot exclusively DNG. That's where the "Embedded" profile is available.

OK, thanks to you both for clarifying that.

I shot DNG for a while. I switched back to PEF last year when I tried Bibble Pro and found that it didn't support DNG. The folks at Bibble Labs support the Open Raw initiative. I do not have strong feelings about the issue. Well, I strongly approve of the goals of the Open Raw initiative. But with all technology questions, the right answer ultimately is the one that is accepted by the largest number of users. And I can't tell right now what's going to happen with raw file formats. So I use PEF now mainly because the files are smaller on my storage card while I'm shooting.

I'm also shooting with three different cameras. I'd guess that 65% of my shooting is done with the K20D, 30% with the K10D and about 5% with the little *ist DS.

Will

Lucky Sky · 07-21-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by WMBP

OK, thanks to you both for clarifying that.

I shot DNG for a while. I switched back to PEF last year when I tried Bibble Pro and found that it didn't support DNG. The folks at Bibble Labs support the Open Raw initiative. I do not have strong feelings about the issue. Well, I strongly approve of the goals of the Open Raw initiative. But with all technology questions, the right answer ultimately is the one that is accepted by the largest number of users. And I can't tell right now what's going to happen with raw file formats. So I use PEF now mainly because the files are smaller on my storage card while I'm shooting.

I'm also shooting with three different cameras. I'd guess that 65% of my shooting is done with the K20D, 30% with the K10D and about 5% with the little *ist DS.

Will

Maybe a "best available" strategy might be to continue to shoot in PEF, but use that LR "Camera Standard" camera calibration profile that another poster offered up here. I do know that shooting in DNG forecloses the option of using PPL..........the software won't recognize DNG. In my case, now that I shoot exclusively in DNG, there's no turning back. I might add that I'm 100% happy with my LR RAW conversions. I don't see where PPL renders images any better (when I use that "Embedded" camera calibration profile for LR RAW conversion).

kiwibird · 07-21-2009, 12:27 PM

PPL supports PEF and DNG files, according to the manual, so I don't understand when you say the software won't recognize DNG. I haven't tried the PPB/PPL software and cannot afford LR, but I've been testing the Silkypix V4 and really like the colors I can get with very little effort. I was thinking of loading PPL and using it if the color rendering was as good as Silkypix. Does anyone have any opinions about this? I know it's not an extensive program, and probably doesn't do half the things Lightroom does, but I would be happy if it can do nice raw conversion.

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07-19-2009, 11:46 AM	#16
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	I'm color-blind, so take my statements about color with a grain of salt and check for yourself. However, I've found that by increasing fill light slightly (up to 25) and increasing blacks to suit after that tends to bring back the color and contrast that I'm looking for in a relatively un-processed image. It typically works better than any preset that uses auto-whatever (tone, brightness, contrast, etc.).

07-19-2009, 12:27 PM	#17
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by WMBP I've been using Adobe Lightroom since the original v1 beta. I'm pretty good with it - okay, I think I'm very good with it - and I am generally pretty happy about the way that it works and the output that I get. The UI is really well designed and makes it possible for me to process the 500-1000 images I bring back from a wedding very efficiently - selecting and editing. But yesterday I downloaded the trial of Silkypix Developer Studio 3 and spent a little time playing around with it. I have to admit that I find the Silkypix UI fairly baffling. I've read some of the online manual but no doubt need to spend more time. It certainly is not "intuitive," at least not to me. Nevertheless, I was impressed. A number of the presets seemed to snap my test images into shape instantly - doing things that I would normally take several steps doing in Lightroom. Lightroom of course has a ton of presets available but I haven't found many of them terribly useful personally. I do create some of my own, but I generally feel that they are good for the current shoot but not very useful for anything that I do later. I'm also pleased that Silkypix 3 has some features that I wish were in Lightroom 2, in particular, a remarkably easy-to-use tool to correct perspectival distortion. There is an E-book, so that Silkypix is easier to use. I bought the full version Silkypix. I like the perspectival distortion tool, but somehow lost the navigation bar for it. So can't use that function at the moment :ugh:

07-19-2009, 07:45 PM	#18
Lucky Sky Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lone Tree, Colorado, USA Posts: 77	Originally posted by WMBP Lucky, What's an "embedded profile"? Will In the Develop Module, there's a panel on the right side called Camera Calibration. When you click on Camera Calibration, the very top of that now expanded panel is labeled "Profile". What you can do is select all of your photos to be developed, go to the right side of the above described panel, and select "Embedded". That will apply that profile to all selected images. What I did was build a preset using the "Embedded" profile amongst other things. I apply this preset to all K20D images to be developed as the first element of my workflow. CAUTION: Apparently, the Embedded profile does not exist for all cameras. The Embedded profile is not available for K2000 images. In that particular case, I use the "Pentax 1.0" profile for all K2000 images to be developed. I'm quite happy with the results of both camera profiles.

07-20-2009, 05:04 PM	#19
jasonwarth Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 65	Originally posted by Lucky Sky What you can do is select all of your photos to be developed, go to the right side of the above described panel, and select "Embedded". Are you using Lightroom 2.4? I am (on a Mac), and I don't see any "embedded" option under the Camera Calibration panel. I see ACR 4.4, Adobe Standard, and Camera Standard. Would you mind clarifying this? -Jason

07-20-2009, 07:03 PM	#20
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482 Original Poster	Originally posted by jasonwarth Are you using Lightroom 2.4? I am (on a Mac), and I don't see any "embedded" option under the Camera Calibration panel. I see ACR 4.4, Adobe Standard, and Camera Standard. Jason, I've been trying to figure this out myself. I see a number of different options here, at different times, and I cannot figure out why. I have several books on Lightroom 2 and none of them explain clearly what's going on. I've been meaning to take the time to post in the Lightroom forums over at Adobe. Will

07-20-2009, 07:11 PM	#21
Mister Horrible Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 100	"embedded" will only be an option with a dng or jpeg. What you want to look at is "Camera Standard" vs. Adobe Standard under Camera Calibration. Camera Standard will (most likely) come closest to the Silkypix/Pentax "look"; Adobe Standard is a more generic look designed by Adobe. Either one is a matter of taste. My preference is by far the Camera Standard for most images. I find that skies and grass, in particular, are more pleasing, and there seems to be less contrast in the shadows. I should point out that I came this close to buying Silkypix. Selective editing, integration with other applications, and of course the DAM, all tipped the scales. In Silkypix I really liked the automatic CA correction, the built-in lens correction, and I was starting to get a handle on sharpening/noise. HTH

07-20-2009, 07:14 PM	#22
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mister Horrible "embedded" will only be an option with a dng or jpeg. What you want to look at is "Camera Standard" vs. Adobe Standard under Camera Calibration. I'm only processing PEF raw files. I do see the Adobe Standard and Camera Standard options. But sometimes I see an ACR 4.4 option, and some other times I see something else. So far it's not making sense to me.

07-20-2009, 07:25 PM	#23
Lucky Sky Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lone Tree, Colorado, USA Posts: 77	Originally posted by jasonwarth Are you using Lightroom 2.4? I am (on a Mac), and I don't see any "embedded" option under the Camera Calibration panel. I see ACR 4.4, Adobe Standard, and Camera Standard. Would you mind clarifying this? -Jason Jason & Will- I use a PC + LR v2.4. My options under Camera Calibration are: ACR 4.4 Adobe Standard Camera Standard Embedded Are you using a K20D? As I mentioned in my cautionary note in my original post, the "Embedded" profile appears to be camera specific. "Embedded" is not an available Camera Calibration option when I process K2000 images.

07-20-2009, 07:53 PM	#24
Mister Horrible Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 100	Embedded will only appear if there is an embedded camera profile, (i.e. DNG). Adobe 4.4 is an older version of their Camera Raw colors. IMO, it provides colors that are markedly inferior to either the Adobe Standard or Camera Standard profiles, and is likely only there for backward compatability reasons. If you're really looking for Silkypix-like colors, Camera Standard is a good starting point. (+ maybe some vibrance/ saturation.)

07-20-2009, 08:32 PM	#25
Lucky Sky Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lone Tree, Colorado, USA Posts: 77	Originally posted by WMBP I'm only processing PEF raw files. I do see the Adobe Standard and Camera Standard options. But sometimes I see an ACR 4.4 option, and some other times I see something else. So far it's not making sense to me. Will- Mr. Horrible hit it right on the head while I ran that big stop sign of your question: you're shooting PEF. I shoot exclusively DNG. That's where the "Embedded" profile is available.

07-20-2009, 09:04 PM	#26
jasonwarth Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 65	Originally posted by WMBP Jason, I've been trying to figure this out myself. I see a number of different options here, at different times, and I cannot figure out why. I have several books on Lightroom 2 and none of them explain clearly what's going on. I've been meaning to take the time to post in the Lightroom forums over at Adobe. Will Well FWIW, I've been using a K20D with Lightroom for about 17 months, so I'm happy to chime in with whatever experiences may be useful to you. I've never used Pentax software of any kind—I've always converted to DNG and imported using Lightroom directly Perhaps that's why I can't seem to attain a better grasp of why different software causes the same RAW files to display differently. Am I the only one who can't understand why there isn't more automation and simplicity to the Pentax/Lightroom equation? I love LR, and I love Pentax, but I'm just baffled that there isn't an automatic feature/setting for getting LR to automatically match the look of the RAW files right out of the camera. In any case, my K-7D arrives tomorrow, and one of the (many, many) reasons I decided to "upgrade" from my K20D was to hopefully get better looking pics right out of the camera. I always get great compliments on my photos, but I feel like half of that equation (at least) is the amount of tweaking I do to each within LR. It would be nice to have a less-tedious workflow so I could spend more time shooting and less time processing—fun as it often is. -J

07-21-2009, 07:22 AM	#27
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mister Horrible I should point out that I came this close to buying Silkypix. Selective editing, integration with other applications, and of course the DAM, all tipped the scales. In Silkypix I really liked the automatic CA correction, the built-in lens correction, and I was starting to get a handle on sharpening/noise.... I don't care much about integration with other apps. 99% of the time, I start and finish the job in Lightroom. But I agree with you about the other things that give Lightroom the advantage at least for me. Selective editing (both with the adjustment brush and the graduated filter tool) is perhaps the single most important advantage Lightroom has over Silkypix. I have no appetite for detail editing in Photoshop, but I confess that I do fairly often use the adjustment brush in Lightroom. Just a quick touch can brighten the bride's bouquet or bring out the texture in her gown. On the other hand, I use the selective adjustment tools on only, oh, 1 of every 5 photos that I process. SO I could live without it. Silkypix DS Pro 4's "dodge" tool, combined with the ability to move the contrast "center", help a lot, but not quite enough. I like Lightroom 2's clarity tool. I find that, with the proper clarity setting, most of my photos need NO additional sharpening during processing. If Silkypix has something similar, I have not found it yet. I really like doing black and white conversions in Lightroom. The options avaialable are easy to understand but quite powerful. I often play with the color channels in black and white images. I suspect something like this can be done in Silkypix, too, but it's really easy to figure out in Lightroom. As for the organizational tools in Lightroom, they, too, are important, although I am less sure about the value of these features. It's important to me to be able to rate photos (1 star to 5 stars), to flag picks and rejects, to tag photos and also assign keywords. I use all of these features constantly. But I'm not so fond of the idea of being committed to a particular program forever to manage my files. I like the fact that Silkypix can be launched without my having to have any library file handy. (Like this about Picasa, too.) Ultimately, I think the thing I like best about Lightroom is the user interface. It just seems so well designed. I know tons of keyboard shortcuts and use them constantly. Makes it possible for me to whiz through a bunch of photos. Silkypix's UI isn't as baffling as, say, Bibble Pro's. But controlling Silkypix seems to require many more mouse clicks and grabs than controlling Lightroom does. Add in the fact that Silkypix is usually slower than Lightroom redrawing the screen after a change in settings, and the case for sticking with Lightroom gets even stronger.

07-21-2009, 07:28 AM	#28
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482 Original Poster	Originally posted by Lucky Sky Will- Mr. Horrible hit it right on the head while I ran that big stop sign of your question: you're shooting PEF. I shoot exclusively DNG. That's where the "Embedded" profile is available. OK, thanks to you both for clarifying that. I shot DNG for a while. I switched back to PEF last year when I tried Bibble Pro and found that it didn't support DNG. The folks at Bibble Labs support the Open Raw initiative. I do not have strong feelings about the issue. Well, I strongly approve of the goals of the Open Raw initiative. But with all technology questions, the right answer ultimately is the one that is accepted by the largest number of users. And I can't tell right now what's going to happen with raw file formats. So I use PEF now mainly because the files are smaller on my storage card while I'm shooting. I'm also shooting with three different cameras. I'd guess that 65% of my shooting is done with the K20D, 30% with the K10D and about 5% with the little *ist DS. Will

07-21-2009, 10:28 AM	#29
Lucky Sky Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lone Tree, Colorado, USA Posts: 77	Originally posted by WMBP OK, thanks to you both for clarifying that. I shot DNG for a while. I switched back to PEF last year when I tried Bibble Pro and found that it didn't support DNG. The folks at Bibble Labs support the Open Raw initiative. I do not have strong feelings about the issue. Well, I strongly approve of the goals of the Open Raw initiative. But with all technology questions, the right answer ultimately is the one that is accepted by the largest number of users. And I can't tell right now what's going to happen with raw file formats. So I use PEF now mainly because the files are smaller on my storage card while I'm shooting. I'm also shooting with three different cameras. I'd guess that 65% of my shooting is done with the K20D, 30% with the K10D and about 5% with the little *ist DS. Will Maybe a "best available" strategy might be to continue to shoot in PEF, but use that LR "Camera Standard" camera calibration profile that another poster offered up here. I do know that shooting in DNG forecloses the option of using PPL..........the software won't recognize DNG. In my case, now that I shoot exclusively in DNG, there's no turning back. I might add that I'm 100% happy with my LR RAW conversions. I don't see where PPL renders images any better (when I use that "Embedded" camera calibration profile for LR RAW conversion).

07-21-2009, 12:27 PM	#30
kiwibird Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 43	PPL supports PEF and DNG files, according to the manual, so I don't understand when you say the software won't recognize DNG. I haven't tried the PPB/PPL software and cannot afford LR, but I've been testing the Silkypix V4 and really like the colors I can get with very little effort. I was thinking of loading PPL and using it if the color rendering was as good as Silkypix. Does anyone have any opinions about this? I know it's not an extensive program, and probably doesn't do half the things Lightroom does, but I would be happy if it can do nice raw conversion.