Pentax and Lightroom

sandpiper6 · 05-17-2007, 03:06 PM

It looks like several of you are using lightroom. I wanted to come on here and verify before I buy lightroom - is lightroom a good product for Pentax files? I have Photoshop 7 and after hearing so many people talk about lightroom, I'd like to see if it helps out my workflow - post-production time.

Also, Currently, we shoot .jpg. Does lightroom have any benefit to me if I keep shooting .jpg or do I really need to switch to PEF RAW to see the benefits? If the latter is a necessity, how long will it take me to figure out post-production of RAW files when I am used to .jpg? I have a full calendar of appointments and do not have much time for a long learning curve.

Thanks so much for any help on this. (Also - should I go ahead and upgrade to CS3 with it or can that wait awhile if I get Lightroom? PPA is offering a discount on those programs.)

Faith

Matjazz · 05-18-2007, 02:31 AM

I'm not sure if lightroom supports jpeg processing, but it does it doesn't make much sense anyway. If you want to take full advantage of your camera and Lightroom use RAW. Lightroom is quite simple to use. I suggest you try the trial version and see for your self.

literary device · 05-18-2007, 12:32 PM

I currently use Lightroom to the exclusion of almost every other program (except some fine tuning, like sharpness and noise reduction, in CS2) for my K10D. It handles the PEF files flawlessly, and can convert them to DNG automatically without any (or at least no noticeable) quality difference. Now, as for your other questions:

1) Workflow: Lightroom is very simple and easy to use, especially if you have experience editing photos. One caveat, however, is that the workflow (using metadata to organize info, etc) can feel a bit foreign if you're used to sorting and accessing files directly on the HD. Fortunately the learning curve here neither steep nor long.
2) Lightroom can handle JPGs well, but you are limited in the extent of modifations you can make (it's easier to blow highlights etc). I recommend just shooting RAW regardless given how cheap memory has become; you can always convert those to JPG later if needed.

Ultimately, I find Lightroom a very formidable photo-workflow application. And as Matjazz said, there is a fully functional trial version so you've got nothing to lose by giving it a chance.

PDL · 05-19-2007, 04:07 PM

Yes Lightroom does support JPEG's it also supports TIFF, PEF and DNG.

You will quickly find that JPEG's do not have as much head room to work with - to experiment. Use PPL to create a JPEG (highest quality) of a RAW file - import both of the files into Lightroom (the 30 day trial is sweet) and start making changes. That is the best way to see what RAW will really do for you. Once you go there - you will never want to go back - gotta love the control.

PDL

LaRee · 05-20-2007, 06:39 PM

I guess I am in the minority. I think Lightroom does a fine job on jpeg processing. I am not trying to recover anything gone or not there. Overall though I think that Lightroom really doesn't have everything in one package. Yes it says it has sharpening and noise reduction but I've found them both to be weaker than free utilities for those functions.
Still, I am glad I own Lightroom. I am hoping that they will add a better noise reduction and sharpening parameters in a module. Lightroom is extremely well set up for using as a database/cataloger. But I feel the processing is weak for both RAW and JPEGS. Too bad they didn't incorporate more of Raw Shooter Premium into Lightroom.

PDL · 05-21-2007, 05:12 PM

I do not think any of us are saying that Lightroom does not do a fine view of working well with JPEG's. It is just that with RAW there is more information for the program to work with which can result in more drastic manipulation. If the same amount of manipulation is attempted on a JPEG the resulting images shows the defincincy.

Lightroom works very nicely with JPEG's and I have used it quite a few times with acceptable results. As for the subtle effects of sharpening etc. - Lightroom may not be as bold as other PP software packages - but its ability to enhance shadows, midtones, highlights and exposure - is very powerful and user friendly (after you get through the tutorials). After a while it becomes second nature.

The two issues I have with Lightroom are -- the inability to see NTFS compressed drives and the inability to play any music other than mp3's (and very poor album track selection too).

Keep using Lightroom - it is very powerfull - but it really shines in RAW and is the best B&W conversion system out there.

PDL

egarrard · 07-07-2007, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by LaRee

I guess I am in the minority. I think Lightroom does a fine job on jpeg processing. I am not trying to recover anything gone or not there. Overall though I think that Lightroom really doesn't have everything in one package. Yes it says it has sharpening and noise reduction but I've found them both to be weaker than free utilities for those functions.
Still, I am glad I own Lightroom. I am hoping that they will add a better noise reduction and sharpening parameters in a module. Lightroom is extremely well set up for using as a database/cataloger. But I feel the processing is weak for both RAW and JPEGS. Too bad they didn't incorporate more of Raw Shooter Premium into Lightroom.

How do you like verson 1.1? I understand the sharpening is much better.

Vertex Ninja · 07-07-2007, 09:01 PM

The sharpening is very much improved. I actually like all of the little changes made, most of which are just tweaks to the interface.

Although this thread is kinda old, I'd like to say that if you are going to work on jpegs in Lightroom, you might as well work with raw files, because the workflow is identical. Essentially the only difference is more headroom/quality with the raw files. It does take longer to import and render the larger files, but it's worth it IMHO. 10-20 megs is tiny for such a high quality file. I only wish I could get my .PSDs and .Tiffs that small.

I shoot .PEF in camera(K10D) because it stores more info in the metadata and is compressed in the camera. Then I import from the memory card and have lightroom convert to compressed DNG, rename, copy into dated subfolders, and add keywords with just a few clicks.

PDL · 07-08-2007, 12:14 AM

Quick update - I have converted to v1.1 and it answers one of my two objections.

It now sees compressed NTFS drives on Windows Vista (most likely XP too) but it still only plays mp3 formats during slide shows. Now add into that the clarity tool and you are cooking with gas.

Another thing - it still does not - repeat - does NOT - see Pentax Lens information after with firmware update 1.2. I am in the process of recharging the battery to go to 1.3.

PDL

LaRee · 07-08-2007, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by egarrard

How do you like verson 1.1? I understand the sharpening is much better.

I do think they improved on many things in 1.1. One thing that I don't hear mentioned often is they fixed the *problem* of lightroom not importing the jpegs associated with RAW files. I do shoot RAW+ sometimes and want both files to be uploaded into lightroom.

The sharpening is improved and the clarity tool is excellent. Improved stamping ability with the spray can is nice for quick stamping of more than just keywords now.

If you want to watch a video about the new tools in 1.1 you can download a video for free here:

FREE Adobe Photoshop Lightroom v.1.1 Tutorial Update [LRT-1.1_SUPP_H-DWNLD] - $9.95 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

It will ask you to create an account etc. but if you enter "'LuminousLandscapeTutorial" in the coupon field on check out you will be able to download the file and watch for free. Watching helped me really get all of the improvements that I originally didn't.

Hope that helps anyone interested.

Vertex Ninja · 07-08-2007, 09:41 AM

If they would just add adjustment layers with selections/masks, then I'd only have to go to Photoshop for the final round of sharpening. Something similar to Lightzone. They could add another panel to the develop section called layered edits(or something) and then you could add on adjustment layers with masks over the top of your usual edits. Then I'd be in heaven!

spillway · 07-10-2007, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by LaRee

I do think they improved on many things in 1.1. One thing that I don't hear mentioned often is they fixed the *problem* of lightroom not importing the jpegs associated with RAW files. I do shoot RAW+ sometimes and want both files to be uploaded into lightroom.

Yep, I think this has been addressed. I found this blurb:

"Now there’s a preference setting that lets you import your RAW+JPEG images, even when the image names are the same (so no more making separate folders for your JPEG photos when importing RAW+JPEG)."

GridUser · 07-12-2007, 08:35 PM

Can I ask a question about the difference/need for Lightroom if I already use Photoshop Elements? I am getting a K-10D soon and want to have the best software I can for my amateur needs. I am particular about my photos but am NOT a professional photographer. I was using some software that came with my first digicam (Canon Pro-1) when someone talked me into getting Elements. Frankly, the red-eye-reduction with Elements is worse than merely horrible. I can't get it to work right, so I end up doing the R-E-R in the Canon software, then move to Elements for the rest of the editing. My major questions about Lightroom are, will I be able to edit RAW without running a conversion program first (needed with my Canon software) and how does it do w/R-E-R? Thanks.

Vertex Ninja · 07-12-2007, 09:11 PM

I think one of the greatest benefits of using Lightroom outside of the great interface, is the ability to work directly with the raw file without having to convert to .tif or .psd etc. What's great about this though, is that your original is actually untouched and you can have multiple "snapshots" or virtual copies of the files without taking up extra space on your hard disk. I can have my original(straight from camera), a color corrected version, a B&W version, a super saturated version... etc. but only take up ~16 MB on disk.

Hard to explain the workflow... it's best to experience it for yourself. Download the 30 day trial and see if it meets your needs. That's what I did and within a few days knew I had to purchase it(I already had CS2 too). You can pretty much do everything in elements and ACR that you can do in Lightroom, but Lightroom makes it sooooo much easier/nicer to do.

MShawn63 · 07-16-2007, 09:38 AM

GridUser, I think it's more of a matter of Lightroom AND Elements, instead of verses. The reason I say this is that when you install Lightroom it will automatically add a link to Elements/Photoshop under the file menu. This will let you send an image out of Lightroom into Elements/Photoshop to do any specific editing you need and then when you save the image it is automatically added back into Lightroom as a new image. You should check out Scott Kelby's book on Lightroom and of course download the 30 day demo. I used it as a Beta and just couldn't wait to purchase the production version.

05-17-2007, 03:06 PM	#1
sandpiper6 Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aiken, SC Posts: 68	Pentax and Lightroom It looks like several of you are using lightroom. I wanted to come on here and verify before I buy lightroom - is lightroom a good product for Pentax files? I have Photoshop 7 and after hearing so many people talk about lightroom, I'd like to see if it helps out my workflow - post-production time. Also, Currently, we shoot .jpg. Does lightroom have any benefit to me if I keep shooting .jpg or do I really need to switch to PEF RAW to see the benefits? If the latter is a necessity, how long will it take me to figure out post-production of RAW files when I am used to .jpg? I have a full calendar of appointments and do not have much time for a long learning curve. Thanks so much for any help on this. (Also - should I go ahead and upgrade to CS3 with it or can that wait awhile if I get Lightroom? PPA is offering a discount on those programs.) Faith

07-12-2007, 08:35 PM	#13
GridUser Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bettendorf, IA Posts: 30	Lightroom v. Elements Can I ask a question about the difference/need for Lightroom if I already use Photoshop Elements? I am getting a K-10D soon and want to have the best software I can for my amateur needs. I am particular about my photos but am NOT a professional photographer. I was using some software that came with my first digicam (Canon Pro-1) when someone talked me into getting Elements. Frankly, the red-eye-reduction with Elements is worse than merely horrible. I can't get it to work right, so I end up doing the R-E-R in the Canon software, then move to Elements for the rest of the editing. My major questions about Lightroom are, will I be able to edit RAW without running a conversion program first (needed with my Canon software) and how does it do w/R-E-R? Thanks.

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05-18-2007, 02:31 AM	#2
Matjazz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: EU/Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 774	I'm not sure if lightroom supports jpeg processing, but it does it doesn't make much sense anyway. If you want to take full advantage of your camera and Lightroom use RAW. Lightroom is quite simple to use. I suggest you try the trial version and see for your self.

05-18-2007, 12:32 PM	#3
literary device New Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Waterloo, Ontario (Canada) Posts: 10	I currently use Lightroom to the exclusion of almost every other program (except some fine tuning, like sharpness and noise reduction, in CS2) for my K10D. It handles the PEF files flawlessly, and can convert them to DNG automatically without any (or at least no noticeable) quality difference. Now, as for your other questions: 1) Workflow: Lightroom is very simple and easy to use, especially if you have experience editing photos. One caveat, however, is that the workflow (using metadata to organize info, etc) can feel a bit foreign if you're used to sorting and accessing files directly on the HD. Fortunately the learning curve here neither steep nor long. 2) Lightroom can handle JPGs well, but you are limited in the extent of modifations you can make (it's easier to blow highlights etc). I recommend just shooting RAW regardless given how cheap memory has become; you can always convert those to JPG later if needed. Ultimately, I find Lightroom a very formidable photo-workflow application. And as Matjazz said, there is a fully functional trial version so you've got nothing to lose by giving it a chance.

05-19-2007, 04:07 PM	#4
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	Yes Lightroom does support JPEG's it also supports TIFF, PEF and DNG. You will quickly find that JPEG's do not have as much head room to work with - to experiment. Use PPL to create a JPEG (highest quality) of a RAW file - import both of the files into Lightroom (the 30 day trial is sweet) and start making changes. That is the best way to see what RAW will really do for you. Once you go there - you will never want to go back - gotta love the control. PDL

05-20-2007, 06:39 PM	#5
LaRee Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,225	I guess I am in the minority. I think Lightroom does a fine job on jpeg processing. I am not trying to recover anything gone or not there. Overall though I think that Lightroom really doesn't have everything in one package. Yes it says it has sharpening and noise reduction but I've found them both to be weaker than free utilities for those functions. Still, I am glad I own Lightroom. I am hoping that they will add a better noise reduction and sharpening parameters in a module. Lightroom is extremely well set up for using as a database/cataloger. But I feel the processing is weak for both RAW and JPEGS. Too bad they didn't incorporate more of Raw Shooter Premium into Lightroom.

05-21-2007, 05:12 PM	#6
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	I do not think any of us are saying that Lightroom does not do a fine view of working well with JPEG's. It is just that with RAW there is more information for the program to work with which can result in more drastic manipulation. If the same amount of manipulation is attempted on a JPEG the resulting images shows the defincincy. Lightroom works very nicely with JPEG's and I have used it quite a few times with acceptable results. As for the subtle effects of sharpening etc. - Lightroom may not be as bold as other PP software packages - but its ability to enhance shadows, midtones, highlights and exposure - is very powerful and user friendly (after you get through the tutorials). After a while it becomes second nature. The two issues I have with Lightroom are -- the inability to see NTFS compressed drives and the inability to play any music other than mp3's (and very poor album track selection too). Keep using Lightroom - it is very powerfull - but it really shines in RAW and is the best B&W conversion system out there. PDL

07-07-2007, 03:33 PM	#7
egarrard Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Manchester, TN Photos: Gallery Posts: 51	Originally posted by LaRee I guess I am in the minority. I think Lightroom does a fine job on jpeg processing. I am not trying to recover anything gone or not there. Overall though I think that Lightroom really doesn't have everything in one package. Yes it says it has sharpening and noise reduction but I've found them both to be weaker than free utilities for those functions. Still, I am glad I own Lightroom. I am hoping that they will add a better noise reduction and sharpening parameters in a module. Lightroom is extremely well set up for using as a database/cataloger. But I feel the processing is weak for both RAW and JPEGS. Too bad they didn't incorporate more of Raw Shooter Premium into Lightroom. How do you like verson 1.1? I understand the sharpening is much better.

07-07-2007, 09:01 PM	#8
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	The sharpening is very much improved. I actually like all of the little changes made, most of which are just tweaks to the interface. Although this thread is kinda old, I'd like to say that if you are going to work on jpegs in Lightroom, you might as well work with raw files, because the workflow is identical. Essentially the only difference is more headroom/quality with the raw files. It does take longer to import and render the larger files, but it's worth it IMHO. 10-20 megs is tiny for such a high quality file. I only wish I could get my .PSDs and .Tiffs that small. I shoot .PEF in camera(K10D) because it stores more info in the metadata and is compressed in the camera. Then I import from the memory card and have lightroom convert to compressed DNG, rename, copy into dated subfolders, and add keywords with just a few clicks.

07-08-2007, 12:14 AM	#9
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	Quick update - I have converted to v1.1 and it answers one of my two objections. It now sees compressed NTFS drives on Windows Vista (most likely XP too) but it still only plays mp3 formats during slide shows. Now add into that the clarity tool and you are cooking with gas. Another thing - it still does not - repeat - does NOT - see Pentax Lens information after with firmware update 1.2. I am in the process of recharging the battery to go to 1.3. PDL

07-08-2007, 09:35 AM	#10
LaRee Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,225	Originally posted by egarrard How do you like verson 1.1? I understand the sharpening is much better. I do think they improved on many things in 1.1. One thing that I don't hear mentioned often is they fixed the problem of lightroom not importing the jpegs associated with RAW files. I do shoot RAW+ sometimes and want both files to be uploaded into lightroom. The sharpening is improved and the clarity tool is excellent. Improved stamping ability with the spray can is nice for quick stamping of more than just keywords now. If you want to watch a video about the new tools in 1.1 you can download a video for free here: FREE Adobe Photoshop Lightroom v.1.1 Tutorial Update [LRT-1.1_SUPP_H-DWNLD] - $9.95 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce It will ask you to create an account etc. but if you enter "'LuminousLandscapeTutorial" in the coupon field on check out you will be able to download the file and watch for free. Watching helped me really get all of the improvements that I originally didn't. Hope that helps anyone interested.

07-08-2007, 09:41 AM	#11
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	If they would just add adjustment layers with selections/masks, then I'd only have to go to Photoshop for the final round of sharpening. Something similar to Lightzone. They could add another panel to the develop section called layered edits(or something) and then you could add on adjustment layers with masks over the top of your usual edits. Then I'd be in heaven!

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07-10-2007, 08:39 AM	#12
spillway Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: S. Wisconsin Posts: 110	Originally posted by LaRee I do think they improved on many things in 1.1. One thing that I don't hear mentioned often is they fixed the problem of lightroom not importing the jpegs associated with RAW files. I do shoot RAW+ sometimes and want both files to be uploaded into lightroom. Yep, I think this has been addressed. I found this blurb: "Now there’s a preference setting that lets you import your RAW+JPEG images, even when the image names are the same (so no more making separate folders for your JPEG photos when importing RAW+JPEG)."

07-12-2007, 09:11 PM	#14
Vertex Ninja Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 652	I think one of the greatest benefits of using Lightroom outside of the great interface, is the ability to work directly with the raw file without having to convert to .tif or .psd etc. What's great about this though, is that your original is actually untouched and you can have multiple "snapshots" or virtual copies of the files without taking up extra space on your hard disk. I can have my original(straight from camera), a color corrected version, a B&W version, a super saturated version... etc. but only take up ~16 MB on disk. Hard to explain the workflow... it's best to experience it for yourself. Download the 30 day trial and see if it meets your needs. That's what I did and within a few days knew I had to purchase it(I already had CS2 too). You can pretty much do everything in elements and ACR that you can do in Lightroom, but Lightroom makes it sooooo much easier/nicer to do.

07-16-2007, 09:38 AM	#15
MShawn63 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 225	GridUser, I think it's more of a matter of Lightroom AND Elements, instead of verses. The reason I say this is that when you install Lightroom it will automatically add a link to Elements/Photoshop under the file menu. This will let you send an image out of Lightroom into Elements/Photoshop to do any specific editing you need and then when you save the image it is automatically added back into Lightroom as a new image. You should check out Scott Kelby's book on Lightroom and of course download the 30 day demo. I used it as a Beta and just couldn't wait to purchase the production version.