RAW to Tiff to jpg image

Tom Lee · 12-31-2009, 04:47 PM

I've just tried this for the first time. I saved a RAW image to .tif, and then saved that to .jpg. This resulting .jpg image had considerably more edge sharpness than a ,jpg image made directly from the same RAW image, and the overall picture had more detail. Anybody else tried this, or does everybody do it, and I've been behind the curve? (Or is it a nutty idea?) Anyway, I tried it again with a macro RAW image and got the same result. (The comparisons were made from a portion of the RAW image blown up to 200% on the screen -- but the difference was noticeable with the full images at normal screen viewing size.) Happy New Year!

flockofbirds · 12-31-2009, 04:58 PM

Interesting, I don't know how having saving as a tiff between the raw and jpg would help anything. But it might have something to due with file algorithms. Tiff is a lossless format with no compression and I think its based on amount of colors, whereas jpg is based on dimensions of the image. I may have to try this.

Marc Sabatella · 12-31-2009, 05:08 PM

If there was any difference at all, it's an accident of the specific program you used and the specific command you used within that program. Which is to say, something you did *right* when converting to/from TIFF, but something "wrong* when going straight to JPEG.

creampuff · 12-31-2009, 05:38 PM

When converting or exporting from RAW to jpeg, there is usually an option to determine the quality of the output jpeg file. Don't know what computer program you are using to convert but this option is definitely there. You may need to check on this.

Tom Lee · 01-02-2010, 10:31 AM

Well, now that I know better, it probably won't work again! Thanks for your comments. An answer to one question -- I use the Pentax RAW program that came with the K20D. And, I really don't know what I could have done "right" or "wrong" -- I just punch the buttons.

Tom Lee · 01-02-2010, 11:09 AM

Tried it again just now. Same result. Both jpgs made to highest quality. Would someone else please try it and see what happens? It's kinda spooky.

brkl · 01-02-2010, 12:15 PM

I reckon it's because the Pentax RAW program is terrible and gives bad results, but you cleverly circumvented its will to muddy up your photos by using a format it's not used to. A better piece of software will probably not give these results.

Tom Lee · 01-03-2010, 07:00 PM

I'll try it in PS Elements and see what happens. I don't have a separate RAW
program. Thanks.

**jpzk** · 01-03-2010, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by brkl

I reckon it's because the Pentax RAW program is terrible and gives bad results, but you cleverly circumvented its will to muddy up your photos by using a format it's not used to. A better piece of software will probably not give these results.

I found that using either Pentax Utilities or CR will give bad results if your photos are originally bad from the start, that is: right from the box.

JP

Damn Brit · 01-03-2010, 08:38 PM

I know that RAW doesn't apply any sharpening but JPEG does. I'm not sure about TIFF but if it does then possibly that would explain what you are seeing, a kind of douple sharpening.

adwb · 01-04-2010, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Tom Lee

I'll try it in PS Elements and see what happens. I don't have a separate RAW
program. Thanks.

Tom I understand you used Pentax photo lab to convert from raw to tiff? With what software did you convert the tiff to jpeg? And what settings did you use for these conversions?
Was the raw just converted with the photo lab settings all set to mid point and the levels bar graph a straight line etc.?
Was the tif conversion as per the unaltered save settings and the same question for the jpeg?
My version of photo lab [which I upgraded recently to see if it had improved] only saves to jpeg ?
Did you not use pentax photo browser which will allow you to save first as a tif [8 or 16 bit] then save the tif as a jpeg , all unaltered?
I just tried that and apart from the usual slight sharpening and colours boost that the pentax software does even on a neutral setting I can't see any improvement as you go along the work flow.unfortunately we can't post .png and .tif so I can't attach the 3 images.
Alistair

FHPhotographer · 01-12-2010, 01:14 PM

Brit, I thought RAW did apply default sharpening based on the specific camera and then it had to be turned off before opening the file in PS or risk double sharpening and the problems that creates? Did I misread something along the way or am I confusing ACR and RAW files again?
Brian

Damn Brit · 01-12-2010, 01:36 PM

RAW files are unprocessed so therefore there is no sharpening, that's according to various sources that I've looked at. A JPEG file is processed and because there is data loss when one is created I would assume that creates a necessity for some sharpening. That's not to say a JPEG shouldn't be sharpened just that one should be more careful.

FHPhotographer · 01-12-2010, 02:53 PM

Well, this reference has me confused:
"A default (sharpening) setting of 25% is applied to all raw or raw DNG images, but if you open a TIFF, or JPEG image, Camera Raw assumes the image has already been pre-sharpened and applies a 0% Amount setting." LINK
Brian

attack11 · 01-12-2010, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by FHPhotographer

Well, this reference has me confused:
"A default (sharpening) setting of 25% is applied to all raw or raw DNG images, but if you open a TIFF, or JPEG image, Camera Raw assumes the image has already been pre-sharpened and applies a 0% Amount setting." LINK
Brian

that's just stating that acr has a default of 25% for sharpening. i set that to 0 every time i upgrade acr 'cause i rely on a smart sharpen in photoshop as my last step before saving to the final format (usually a png). in general, sharpening should always be your last step.

12-31-2009, 04:47 PM	#1
Tom Lee Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Greeley, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 28	RAW to Tiff to jpg image I've just tried this for the first time. I saved a RAW image to .tif, and then saved that to .jpg. This resulting .jpg image had considerably more edge sharpness than a ,jpg image made directly from the same RAW image, and the overall picture had more detail. Anybody else tried this, or does everybody do it, and I've been behind the curve? (Or is it a nutty idea?) Anyway, I tried it again with a macro RAW image and got the same result. (The comparisons were made from a portion of the RAW image blown up to 200% on the screen -- but the difference was noticeable with the full images at normal screen viewing size.) Happy New Year!

01-04-2010, 02:58 AM	#11
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	Originally posted by Tom Lee I'll try it in PS Elements and see what happens. I don't have a separate RAW program. Thanks. Tom I understand you used Pentax photo lab to convert from raw to tiff? With what software did you convert the tiff to jpeg? And what settings did you use for these conversions? Was the raw just converted with the photo lab settings all set to mid point and the levels bar graph a straight line etc.? Was the tif conversion as per the unaltered save settings and the same question for the jpeg? My version of photo lab [which I upgraded recently to see if it had improved] only saves to jpeg ? Did you not use pentax photo browser which will allow you to save first as a tif [8 or 16 bit] then save the tif as a jpeg , all unaltered? I just tried that and apart from the usual slight sharpening and colours boost that the pentax software does even on a neutral setting I can't see any improvement as you go along the work flow.unfortunately we can't post .png and .tif so I can't attach the 3 images. Alistair Last edited by adwb; 01-04-2010 at 03:02 AM. Reason: still can't spell

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12-31-2009, 04:58 PM	#2
flockofbirds Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 178	Interesting, I don't know how having saving as a tiff between the raw and jpg would help anything. But it might have something to due with file algorithms. Tiff is a lossless format with no compression and I think its based on amount of colors, whereas jpg is based on dimensions of the image. I may have to try this.

12-31-2009, 05:08 PM	#3
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	If there was any difference at all, it's an accident of the specific program you used and the specific command you used within that program. Which is to say, something you did right when converting to/from TIFF, but something "wrong* when going straight to JPEG.

12-31-2009, 05:38 PM	#4
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	When converting or exporting from RAW to jpeg, there is usually an option to determine the quality of the output jpeg file. Don't know what computer program you are using to convert but this option is definitely there. You may need to check on this.

01-02-2010, 10:31 AM	#5
Tom Lee Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Greeley, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 28 Original Poster	Well, now that I know better, it probably won't work again! Thanks for your comments. An answer to one question -- I use the Pentax RAW program that came with the K20D. And, I really don't know what I could have done "right" or "wrong" -- I just punch the buttons.

01-02-2010, 11:09 AM	#6
Tom Lee Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Greeley, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 28 Original Poster	Tried it again just now. Same result. Both jpgs made to highest quality. Would someone else please try it and see what happens? It's kinda spooky.

01-02-2010, 12:15 PM	#7
brkl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 497	I reckon it's because the Pentax RAW program is terrible and gives bad results, but you cleverly circumvented its will to muddy up your photos by using a format it's not used to. A better piece of software will probably not give these results.

01-03-2010, 07:00 PM	#8
Tom Lee Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Greeley, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 28 Original Poster	I'll try it in PS Elements and see what happens. I don't have a separate RAW program. Thanks.

01-03-2010, 08:16 PM	#9
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by brkl I reckon it's because the Pentax RAW program is terrible and gives bad results, but you cleverly circumvented its will to muddy up your photos by using a format it's not used to. A better piece of software will probably not give these results. I found that using either Pentax Utilities or CR will give bad results if your photos are originally bad from the start, that is: right from the box. JP

01-03-2010, 08:38 PM	#10
Damn Brit Guest	I know that RAW doesn't apply any sharpening but JPEG does. I'm not sure about TIFF but if it does then possibly that would explain what you are seeing, a kind of douple sharpening.

01-12-2010, 01:14 PM	#12
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297	Brit, I thought RAW did apply default sharpening based on the specific camera and then it had to be turned off before opening the file in PS or risk double sharpening and the problems that creates? Did I misread something along the way or am I confusing ACR and RAW files again? Brian

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01-12-2010, 01:36 PM	#13
Damn Brit Guest	RAW files are unprocessed so therefore there is no sharpening, that's according to various sources that I've looked at. A JPEG file is processed and because there is data loss when one is created I would assume that creates a necessity for some sharpening. That's not to say a JPEG shouldn't be sharpened just that one should be more careful.

01-12-2010, 02:53 PM	#14
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297	Well, this reference has me confused: "A default (sharpening) setting of 25% is applied to all raw or raw DNG images, but if you open a TIFF, or JPEG image, Camera Raw assumes the image has already been pre-sharpened and applies a 0% Amount setting." LINK Brian

01-12-2010, 03:06 PM	#15
attack11 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ottawa, ON - Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 658	Originally posted by FHPhotographer Well, this reference has me confused: "A default (sharpening) setting of 25% is applied to all raw or raw DNG images, but if you open a TIFF, or JPEG image, Camera Raw assumes the image has already been pre-sharpened and applies a 0% Amount setting." LINK Brian that's just stating that acr has a default of 25% for sharpening. i set that to 0 every time i upgrade acr 'cause i rely on a smart sharpen in photoshop as my last step before saving to the final format (usually a png). in general, sharpening should always be your last step.